Which of these two fmic's are better?

[bmoha7321]

ah man... I have to disagree with you there about ic piping being ic piping. I have Hahn racecraft steel powdercoated ic pipes. Very solid. My buddy has ebay kit with aluminum pipes and crushed an end of an ic pipe tightening a clamp down on it. Thinwall aluminum tubing...

 

[born2tune]

ah man... I have to disagree with you there about ic piping being ic piping. I have Hahn racecraft steel powdercoated ic pipes. Very solid. My buddy has ebay kit with aluminum pipes and crushed an end of an ic pipe tightening a clamp down on it. Thinwall aluminum tubing...

true that.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

The vrsf kit, even though the pipes look and feel supermlight and sketchy, they are more then strong enough to t bolt
Clamp as hard as you want

 

[bryanwheat]

Its a long route because it has more piping length then the shortest route possible

So it is a long route because you say so or what. The punishment racing kit in the link is a short route. The pipes go thru the radiator support, not around it. That is a short route. It doesn't just become a long route because the pipes are longer than what is on your 2g.

If you get the ETS ULTRA 12" race intercooler. you may be throwing down 900 bucks up front, but it will be the last FMIC you ever buy.

Don't assume that because you are spending 900 dollars on an intercooler kit that it is so much better than anything else. A lot of the hand made high end intercoolers that i have had experience with such as buscher racing which was a 950 dollar setup new are built worse than the cheaper ones. I had to re weld a different seam on it once a month. It has been proven over the years that cheaper intercoolers built with similar designs and similar materials are as good as the high end intercoolers.
l

 

[honda_burner]

The v.r.s.f kit is an awesome fit!! I helped put one in my friends 1g. Only thing is you may have to cut the front support but other than that it was very simple. It has exactly 4 pipes and that's it. I myself have a ebay fmic and had minimal problems with it. I haven't flow tested it or run it at the track yet but its based off an old spearco design I've been told so it can't be terrible. The v.rs.f. kit is an excellent design and you absolutely get your moneys worth out of it IMO.

 

[GoCanes777]

Spend your money on another site besides ebay....

ETS short route is the way to go no questions asked. My FMIC actually sits straight and came with T-clamps and it would just save you $ in the long run you won't have to buy another innercooler.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I never said you said they were Ebay kits. I quoted someone else. But it's still short route if it doesn't use the stock SMIC hole, regardless of length. Some shorter than others, but the route is the same.

Such as:

yeah i used to have the greddy 18r also..

 

[bryanwheat]

Spend your money on another site besides ebay....

ETS short route is the way to go no questions asked. My FMIC actually sits straight and came with T-clamps and it would just save you $ in the long run you won't have to buy another innercooler.

There is no need to spend 750+ on an intercooler with piping. The cheaper ones are proven to work great and be good quality by many people. Also there are plenty of good products on ebay. It is a marketplace with all kinds of different brands sold by many different people. You just have to watch what you buy.

 

[JusMX141]

That god speed, pr and vsrf are all the same ebay kit. Buy it off of ebay and save the hassle and mark up. I promise you.

The ets kit is how much? About 900 bucks... my ebay kit, same exact core size and pipe size was 350. and they have the same cooling efficiency, same route, and same look. the only thing you pay for is the name. I am very happy with my ebay kit, that I purchased from PR.

So let me get this straight- all FMIC's are the same? Wow, I'll bet Jeff Bush is pissed off- he could've saved a pile of money by going with an eBay kit over his ETS.

 

[MHuddy1213]

i completly agree with bryanwheat the cheaper kits are more than sufficient and are just as good of quality as the exspensive ones and for the price you pay for the ETS frount mount you can get a front mount and cemlink to tune your car and S*** all over that ets front mount all your paying for is the name IMO but i wouldnt go with an ebay kit unless it was free i would atleast want some quality behind in and the VRSF is the best bang for your buck

 

[victorious420]

i completly agree with bryanwheat the cheaper kits are more than sufficient and are just as good of quality as the exspensive ones and for the price you pay for the ETS frount mount you can get a front mount and cemlink to tune your car and S*** all over that ets front mount all your paying for is the name IMO but i wouldnt go with an ebay kit unless it was free i would atleast want some quality behind in and the VRSF is the best bang for your buck

You need to do some reading, and research that statement.

Here's one of several reasons ETS has my vote over either of the others. "All you are paying for is the name". No. Here is what you are paying for. This, and REAL aluminum alloy, REAL R&D, REAL support of dsm's, REAL American jobs, etc...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/han...-our-intercooler-quality-control-process.html

Another interesting read

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-en...ets-intercooler-vs-garrret-intercooler-6.html

It goes on and on. Children laboring for pennies an hour over reverse engineered knockoffs constructed using poor materials and almost no quality control are not in the same league as ETS. The nicer kits with cheap chinese cores(PR, VRSF) do work well, up to a point...that point seems to be about 400-500 hp.

So let me get this straight- all FMIC's are the same? Wow, I'll bet Jeff Bush is pissed off- he could've saved a pile of money by going with an eBay kit over his ETS.

I didn't know you could get 6" thick chinese cores.

 

[Buniqueny]

The v.r.s.f kit is an awesome fit!! I helped put one in my friends 1g. Only thing is you may have to cut the front support but other than that it was very simple. It has exactly 4 pipes and that's it. I myself have a ebay fmic and had minimal problems with it. I haven't flow tested it or run it at the track yet but its based off an old spearco design I've been told so it can't be terrible. The v.rs.f. kit is an excellent design and you absolutely get your moneys worth out of it IMO.

I agree I have a v.s.r.f kit on my 1g and it is a very easy install and have had no issues with it yet.

 

[bryanwheat]

You need to do some reading, and research that statement.

Here's one of several reasons ETS has my vote over either of the others. "All you are paying for is the name". No. Here is what you are paying for. This, and REAL aluminum alloy, REAL R&D, REAL support of dsm's, REAL American jobs, etc...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/han...-our-intercooler-quality-control-process.html

Another interesting read

Ets intercooler vs garrret intercooler - Page 6 - evolutionm.net

It goes on and on. Children laboring for pennies an hour over reverse engineered knockoffs constructed using poor materials and almost no quality control are not in the same league as ETS. The nicer kits with cheap chinese cores(PR, VRSF) do work well, up to a point...that point seems to be about 400-500 hp.



I didn't know you could get 6" thick chinese cores.

Well you go ahead and spend too much on your intercoolers. I and others will continue to use what has been tried and good to us for many years.

 

[clipto]

Get what ever one you can afford they are all going to do just about the same thing. The concept goes for almost everything, you get what you pay for. If you spend $300 on a fmic you get a $300 fmic it's still going to be good but its not the best but it will still be decent. But if you spend $1000 on a ETS kit your ganna get a great peice that will shine. You would expect that if you pay that much it will be getting quality (dur). From there well prices and different company and designes vary I didn't think it was that complicated to choose a fmic... Half the people on here run $300ish front mount intercooler kit's like vrsf, punsihment racing, and ssautochrome, and they all hold up fine, so do the math you will be good.

 

[JusMX141]

I didn't know you could get 6" thick chinese cores.

Exactly my point- but some seem to feel all intercoolers are the same.


Regardless, the O.P. of this thread seems unable to do any research on his own (judging by the two other threads he created on the exact same topic and NUMEROUS other threads with results and comparing fitment of literally every FMIC available)...and I'm determined to get him to locate the site's search feature.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/437325-what-fmic-buy.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-thread-graveyard/436903-what-fmic-should-i-buy.html

 

[victorious420]

Well you go ahead and spend too much on your intercoolers. I and others will continue to use what has been tried and good to us for many years.

I have a PR core. And I did spend too much on it, considering what I got for the money. There are other costs associated with having a cheap core, than the initial asking price. Consider I had to purchase a new intake, MAFT and MAF to make my ill-designed piping fit. As I've stated before on this thread, I spent just as much on a PR kit and getting it to work as I would have on an ETS street kit that would have worked fine out the box because they put more care into developing their kit instead of farming it out to whatever chinese manufacturer they can get the cheapest bulk price from. I'm not saying they don't work, but to say that they are equal to ETS in quality and performance, and ETS doesn't have anything to offer over them for the price, is just stupid, misleading, and wrong.

This is just like the HX35 guys trying to say it only costs $250 to hook up a holset...without counting the other costs... possible cost of a turbo rebuild, exhaust manifold/turbine housing, oil lines, welded oilpan, new fan, whatever your fab time/costs are, etc... at least holsets are high quality products to begin with, and the results are usually worth the trouble.

"good to you"? You mean cheapest that gets the job done. How else have they been "good" to you? You confuse "good" to you with "available" to you. VRSF is for the most part very straightforward with where their kit comes from, and what it is capable of, but PR for sure is BS in my book. They don't even run a shop car, and they don't have a presence in the community other than selling you cheap chinese parts...PR in particular hasn't had ANYTHING to do with developing the kit, nor do they work to do ANYTHING new or different for our platform. They found a kit they could supply for cheap that works, that they could farm out to a cheap manufacturer in China, and they are shipping them and then collecting money... I doubt they even open the kits from the manufacturer to do quality control checks. PR didn't do SH*T to develop that kit, if you research its history. They bought the design from a tuners member, and basically have done nothing to improve it. They do not warrenty it, and will not cover any part of it that breaks due to poor manufacturing. If CXracing had a decent welder chained to a bench doing nothing but welding up manifolds, I'd put them on the same level as PR....except CXracing will honor their warranty claims. They are both selling knockoffs when they can get away with it, but PR happen to have one good domestically made product line, and hawk it like they are custom fabricators. endrant.

 

[MY1GDSM]

First off, A good portion off this is mis information and all of this is been covered MANY times EDIT(and as Jus said a search would have netted the OP the info they needed)... . I won't bother getting into who sells what or is a reselller of what ect I'm sure it's all in the links... .

I will say though the bottom line most of these cores your not guaranteed to get the same thing from "them" each time someone orders and I've seen first hand some of the "ebay" cores that literally you could see right through because there was no fin pack... I'm not going to get into this to much though as it's all been covered by people with first hand experience as siad more then a few times. most of the people commenting on "thier" kit from x company don't have another kit and don't have anything to compare to as well anyway...

Don't assume that because you are spending 900 dollars on an intercooler kit that it is so much better than anything else. A lot of the hand made high end intercoolers that i have had experience with such as buscher racing which was a 950 dollar setup new are built worse than the cheaper ones.
l

Being that I'm very local to them and have seen first hand their business and talk to the guys there in person at the shop and have ran one of there FMIC from one of the first cores they sold to a more current one now

Take note:

(they are always constantly evolving and from the first tune and fine core that some kits came with to get more flow to the radiator (as our cars an Rx-7's to name a few that run a bit hotter then some) to the Propitery cores they sell now or any other custom core on request they can and will make for you)

I'd say that I'm qualified to coment on their products as well as the fact that I've tune many cars with there cores/kits and others. That said I wouldn't buy anything else on the market... . And is all I will ever recommend.

I'd say the using the analogy of some other company to them is Very flawed... ETS is ETS not anyone else.

If you had purchased a ETS kit they come with a lifetime warranty against defect so they would have taken care of any issues that by chance happen to arise(doubtful)... As well as this applies to their custom couplers.



Figured I'd throw this out there end as well the end of last year I has my wastegate line come lose(22psi W/G Spring) and free boosted to something WAY higher then the car had ever seen(an it's seen 36psi logged with a differant map a few times) not sure what it was at as I only have a 30 psi gauge and map sensor. But was running about 32psi ish at the time

Anyway I have a coupler that is a bit longer as my kit was originality for a 16g not a down fire turbo and I had never bothered to get a different pipe(plan to now ) I managed to blow out a coupler along the side(they're rated at 55psi)I've NEVER in the probably 5 years I've had this exact kit on the car ever had a pipe come off and even then it didn't in this case it just split down the side and was probably due to the length not it's quality or maybe age...

What did I do? drove down since I'm local(with there okay) even though they don't list where they are or have that kind of operation(or at the time didn't) and picked up a new one for free(being it wasn't something like a nitrous backfire not sure if you would be cover in that case) and all they asked was for the old one so they could see why it failed... .

All this said, You think your going to get that kind of support? or quality from a re-seller let alone the fitment Ect... SO YES, in some cases you do get what you pay for...

This is all my opinion on the matter. But there are plenty of cars I've tuned and others have that switched out FMIC's and can back up the fact they are problbly the best on the market and well worth the $$$...

If you can't swing it buy someones that is upgrading to go bigger...

That's about all I can say for now pretty busy as it is...

/rant

 

[clipto]

Ahmen my1gdsm, people don't realize that ETS is not a huge huge company. They have a good name and good brand but people forget that they only really make intercooler kits and started into some other products. But just like where you see those models for fashion designers they charge up the ass for a skimpy silk dress for like $2000's. People don't realise that it's a small operation of people that have to not only pay for them to get spending money to enjoy life but also for shop fees and to pay employees, and it all takes money. I am sure they would sell em for alot cheaper if they could but everyone know's everything cost's money. Most companys take the ebay or I should say cheap cores and rig I mean fix it up so it fits and they work good don't get me wrong, but like my1gdsm says along comes with price and quality you get great people who help you out and make stuff the best they can for our cars... I guess you can call that customer care? That is what I am willing to pay the extra price for. But other then that the other company's are fine for a budget build..

 

[92AWDHX40]

I got two one is a pr and the other is a ets core ill run the pr and later install the ets and compare some things, hell the ets one i got was a freebie.

 

[LandoAWD]

DSMTuners: Just by the Chinese one on Ebay

T-shirts anyone? I particularly disappointed that a member from 04 is recommending sweatshop crap.

 

[clipto]

DSMTuners: Just by the Chinese one on Ebay

T-shirts anyone? I particularly disappointed that a member from 04 is recommending sweatshop crap.

You buy what you can afford man, not everyone can afford $1000 ETS kit. Sure it's your so called china crap but really there's nothing to wrong with them. unless you see high temps and knock. Now if the o.p was trying to build a 500+whp drag car I would recomend and good fmic like ets, that is the point most people are missing.

 

[MY1GDSM]

that they only really make intercooler kits and started into some other products.

Well, they make a number of custom Turbo kits and maifolds as well

But, they have expanded more over the years, also worth noting they have a large assortment of cars of different makes to Dyno test all their product in house... .



I made my recommendation and all I am going to add at this point is why buy things twice... ?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Well, they make a number of custom Turbo kits and maifolds as well

But, they have expanded more over the years, also worth noting they have a large assortment of cars of different makes to Dyno test all their product in house... .



I made my recommendation and all I am going to add at this point is why buy things twice... ?

Very true, and also people need to consider that their goals will change. Everyone knows that once you get a turbo you will out grow it in a few months. Take me for example, i was going to start out on a 16G but got an scm6152, bought the VRSF and it has held very very well for what i have thrown at it. IAT's dont jump too much above ambiant, maybe by 10* BUT since my goals have changed and now im on to the HX40 status.. I will now be spending 1600 because i had to buy 2 VRSF cores and now ill have to buy the ETS... so for those of you curious. would you want to be in my position spending 1600 bucks when i could have spent an initial 900 and called it a day up to 8 second 1/4 miles? I'm for sure kicking my own ass because my builder even recommended it and i cheeped out, not to say it hasnt worked out great thus far; but i'm still having to buy things a 3rd time, (had to buy core twice cause someone crashed into my front bumper creating a puncture hole i didnt wanna risk running a patch.) So i bought another core. seriously should have gotten ETS after the first VRSF core was damaged.

To those beginners- you may not know it, but after you max out that 16G out you will want to go bigger and quicker, until its not longer streetable anymore. And in most cases people continue turning their DD into a drag car, and end up with a honda DD. Just sayin boost is an addiction and a good FMIC that supports your addiction is a good investment. ETS will be getting my business when i get the cash up. OH and by the way, for those of you saying you cant afford the ETS fmics, not everyone has to go with the 900 dollar short route race FMIC, they have other affordable options. OR you can make like me and actually save your cash for a month or two and pick it up. No one said you had to get in debt over it.

 

[ZombieSix]

Currently rocking a way overpriced greddy kit but I'm considering switching to the vrsf short route kit. I don't like how the greddy kit piping crosses over the inter cooler..

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Currently rocking a way overpriced greddy kit but I'm considering switching to the vrsf short route kit. I don't like how the greddy kit piping crosses over the inter cooler..

yeah, greddy is another story... IMHO that is a kit you are paying for the name for... good quality built kits with thick bar and plate, BUT way too small and thin dementions to be efficient on a high HP application, i guess greddy on the other hand is marketed tword "street kits" but for the price of a greddy 18R you can get a polished pipeing, 3.5 inch ETS kit.