Where is everyone finding torque plates???

[BISHILVR]

I'm wondering where anyone has found a source for a torque plate to either rent or buy. I have pm'ed several people on here and on dsmtalk that claimed to have plates for rent and have not recieved anything back from them in the last 4-5 weeks. I really have to get my engine finished and this is the last holdup for me, so if anyone can give me a heads up that would be great.

 

[Defiant]

Start calling the machine shops and hot rod shops in your area.

The utility of using a torque plate probably isn't worth the bother. Will you also torque down the bottom end, and run running-temperature water through the block?

 

[DSMJim]

I didn't even use a torque plate when building my motor. I have no doubts my motor will take 500hp with no problems and that it won't just magically blow up because I didn't use one. It's a cast iron block not an open deck aluminum...

 

[jltcat]

has nothing to do with whether or not it will blow up. It is just a better build procedure. I had a machine shop build mine $400. (A fat man can run but not as well as a skinny man) by using a torque plate it simulates cylinder head torque which can warp the bore of the block so when you have your block bored or honed it is a "perfect" circle thereby giving the rings a better more evenly spaced surface to run against rather than uneven friction points. If your building an engine build it right find a torque plate. Im not willing to give mine up for rent cause things have a tendency to not find there way back to me. good luck with your build.

 

[m1nd64m3]

If anyone is able to make torque plates i have an autocad file of the torque plate that i made for someone.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

If anyone is able to make torque plates i have an autocad file of the torque plate that i made for someone.

I would like that file if you don't mind.

Rogue

 

[Suparata]

An engine builder would not spend $400 for a plate and all the time needed to install it before machining if it didn’t make a difference. You would be surprised how much the bore distorts when it is installed it’s not just a change in size. As far as using heated coolant it sounds good but what would be the clearance to look for under those circumstances? If x.x thou, to what: heated or room temperature piston? Hmm…

 

[BISHILVR]

I've built alot of full on pro race engines for kart and motorcycles and I always used a torque plate on them when honing. I have seen from my own experiences as a pro racer myself that it makes a difference. I probably could have a local shop cnc one for me, m1nd64m3 if you could send the file out that would save some time and money I'm sure. And actually I do plan to torque the bottom end down while honing, The local speed shop that been in business for decades and built countless race cars agrees that a torque plate is a neccesity on the 4g63.

 

[Defiant]

Here we go again.

The "Torque plate or not?" question has been beaten to death. If you believe the tales, then good or too bad for you, depending.

If anyone has any information on FINDING a torque plate (not "I got one, but you can't touch it" BULLSHIT), post away.

We have lots of other pointless things to be arguing about.

 

[bigjdog84]

I have a torque plate, if you would to rent it please email me at [email protected]
Later/joe

 

[set3422]

I wonder if anyone has cut out the top portion of the block to make a torque plate. Or find a bad head and punch out the head dome to make a torque plate. I'm tempted to do it because finding a junk block or head is easy and to cut it is almost free.



Set,

 

[bigjdog84]

Set, I was planning on doing the same thing, but when clearing up some free space I threw out all my junk heads. Just make sure you have someone that has a saw large enough to slice it.
It would probably be best to slice a couple inches off the top of the head then run a large hole saw inline w/the spark plug threads. I'm sure it would simulate the head very well since its has all the coolant + oil passages, whereas the tq plate does not. Should it make a difference? I hope not

 

[Enraged78]

I'm wondering where anyone has found a source for a torque plate to either rent or buy. I have pm'ed several people on here and on dsmtalk that claimed to have plates for rent and have not recieved anything back from them in the last 4-5 weeks. I really have to get my engine finished and this is the last holdup for me, so if anyone can give me a heads up that would be great.

I had the same issue when building my motor. I decided it wasn't worth the hassle of finding one and just had one made. It wasn't that expensive, and the shop I work with now can use it on any DSM block they build. I personally think that it's worth doing it right. Use a torque plate.

Matt.

 

[set3422]

Set, I was planning on doing the same thing, but when clearing up some free space I threw out all my junk heads. Just make sure you have someone that has a saw large enough to slice it.
It would probably be best to slice a couple inches off the top of the head then run a large hole saw inline w/the spark plug threads. I'm sure it would simulate the head very well since its has all the coolant + oil passages, whereas the tq plate does not. Should it make a difference? I hope not

If we need to simulate the actual evenly distrubuted clamping force, I think using the actual head is better than the ditto torque plate. The head has coolant and oil passage cut out can not be replicated on a ditto torque plate. I know this is a bad example, but the difference between laying on a netted hammick and a un-netted hammock is a big difference. Same concept can apply to this. Probably a solid torque plate can replicate the same clamping force as the head by using a metal head gasket under the torque plate when boring (but whose willing to sacrifice a metal head gasket and I doubt whose willing to use a old warped metal head gasket). However I still don't think this will yield a better result than a bored out head as a torque plate.

To modify the head correctly as a torque plate, the spark plug hole is probably too small to accept a bore bit, so we might have to start drilling it out with increasing drill bit size untill it's big enough to be bored out. The last step is to mill the bored out head for flatness. Viola....a stock head torque plate.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Don't you think that cutting away at the head will change its structural integrity? So by doing so your are still not getting a 'true' replica of what a 'complete' head does.

Rogue

 

[set3422]

Don't you think that cutting away at the head will change its structural integrity? So by doing so your are still not getting a 'true' replica of what a 'complete' head does.

Rogue

I’m glad you brought this up. The reduced head structural integrity is negligible because the cut away head will have the same 4 bore holes as solid torque plate. The cutaway head might have a better structural integrity than the torque plate because the head makes up the loss material in thickness. I’m comparing a cut away head with a torque plate, so your question won’t apply to this modification. If I’m comparing a cut away head with a complete head, yes then it does apply.

However I’m more concerned with the missing coolant and oil passages on a torque plate. Without the passages, the thermal characteristics between the torque plate and block will be distorted when heat is generated from the boring. With the cutaway head (with coolant and oil passages), the thermal characteristics will be distorted anyway, but it will be distorted at a lesser magnitude. The idea is to simulate the thermal characteristics as close as the complete head. To get my point across, I’m trying to use the best method to find the closest replica and I think using the cutaway head is the closest replica. Just an idea, I'll respect your disagreement.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

I’m comparing a cut away head with a torque plate, so your question won’t apply to this modification. If I’m comparing a cut away head with a complete head, yes then it does apply.

Hmm, I understand the comparison of the cut head to the torque plate. I understand that the head has a different expansion rate then the block (alum vs iron)...
But the whole reason of using a torque plate in the first place is its comparison to a head. So since we are trying to simulate a head being torqued on in the first place, then any torque plates, cut cylinder heads, whatever, should be compared to a _real_ head.

Rogue

 

[1fast97gsx]

It depends on how much you want to spend on one. This place has one for like $400. clicky

My local machine shop has one there and he charges an extra $20 or so to use it. I'd just call around local machine shops or in worst case have them make you one using a headgasket as the pattern to cut the holes and what not.

 

[Spyke169]

i know that taboo rented them out, but i tried to get to their web site and the page said that the page had expired... not sure if anyone has their number and can get a hold of them??

 

[bigjdog84]

Taboo is out of business, long story--search on dsmtalk for it.
Like I said before I have a torque plate if anyone would like to rent it.

 

[Big Woo]

Well to add more fuel to the fire consider this. If one is looking to simulate cylinder distortion prior boring and honing, then the type of fasteners employed during final assembly, need to be used during the boring and honing process. This is because bolts and studs distort the cylinders definitely. Most purchased torque plates used relatively short cap screws (Allen head bolts) maybe 21/2" inches in length. So what would be the point of predistorting the cylinder with a 21/2" bolt when you assemble the motor using 5" studs. What you will end up with is something that may be no better than doing it without the torque plate.

Personally I believe in torque plates, but they must be used in a fashion in which best mimics your completed system. For to do anything less will lead to marginal results.

 

[BISHILVR]

Yes I agree, and my arp studs are installed and will be used with whatever head gasket I will be using, when honing my block.

 

[MNGSX]

I agree as to making a tq plate out of a head being the best way

You would'nt use a saw.

 

[set3422]

It looks like the consensus is heading toward the head modified as a torque plate. A solid torque plate will run you about $400 if you can find one. A junk dsm head can be had anywhere from $0 to $100. Machining cost for boring the head will probably cost another $50-200. Add both up, that will total up to about $300. From engineering and econimal standoint, this makes more sense.

 

[set3422]

Yes I agree, and my arp studs are installed and will be used with whatever head gasket I will be using, when honing my block.

I don't know you'll be using ARP head studs with a torque plate when honing. Most torque I have seen is usually half the thickness of an actual head. Unless you're able to find one that almost has the same heigth as the head or use some stacked spacers/washers between the ARP nut and torque plate.