ECUflash whats first with ecuflash?

[dboyle23]

I installed new denso 660cc injectors, a walbro 255, and a 16g. So it is time to tune!

Following some of what ceddy has on his site: The first thing I did was change injector scaling to 660, then added 0.180 (denso 660 latency is 0.180) to all parameters in injector latency.

I am confused on what to do next.

My idle right now is so lean I get"--" on my uego. Did I miss something?

Any help as to the next steps would be really appreciated.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

post a log?

 

[dboyle23]

ceddy says to let the car for 16 minutes and then get a log. I am afraid to let it idle for so long because of the insanely high AFR.

What parameters should i log? I am using evoscan but under the obd2 96+ setting because the dsm setting freezes on me.

 

[the_mork]

Don't let it idle that long, the car is obviously way off. Allowing the car to idle for 16 minutes allows the ecu to populate the long term fuel trims so that you have an idea of how far off you are and can make educated guesses at how great the changes in your values need to be.

In your case you are too far off for that to be useful. Since you are so terribly lean try bringing the injector scaling down some. Change the injector deadtime back to stock for now. Injector deadtime will usually have a smaller effect on AFR than injector size and for the moment we want to work with as few variables as possible until we are in the ballpark. Basically I'm suggesting not that deadtimes aren't important but that I've seen enough people do silly things with tuning including those that know better that I want to minimize the chances of anything else affecting the car that isn't visible to people on the forum helping you. Simple is better whenever possible when communication might not be perfectly clear!

So lets start from the first, make sure you unplug your ecu or remove the cable from your battery then turn your headlights on, leave it for a while (10-30 seconds) then turn the headlights off and reconnect the battery. This makes sure that the fuel trims are reset in the ecu so that we aren't dealing with any compensation from your old setup. Now we want to flash the ecu with a smaller injector size and see what the results are. You are using 660 now and you are quite lean so lets dial it back quite a bit to around 580 and see how the car reacts. If it is still lean then see what the car does around 520, and if it is lean at 520 then stop because there are obviously other issues. So if 580 has closer to the ballpark then we just repeat the procedure of checking if the car is lean or rich and changing the injector size to compensate until the car is somewhat close. That will give you your baseline.

From there then you can follow the tuning guides to determine proper deadtimes and injector sizes. Remember that deadtimes will have a much more biased effect on idle and cruise where pulses are short while injector size will have more bias where pulses are long such as heavy acceleration (high load). If your fuel trims say that you are lean but your WOT is spot on then you need to increase deadtime. If you have really good fuel trims but your WOT is rich then you need to increase injector size and reduce dead times.

Hopefully that gives you an idea of where to start. I'm not sure that a log will help us in any way until you are at least ballpark close.

Of course I should always mention that none of this has any value whatsoever if your car isn't in good operating condition. If you have not done a boost leak test within the last couple of days at the least, and more recently if you have done any work under the hood of the car (including installing those injectors!) then you are going to be chasing your own tail. Injectors are one of those jobs where it is really really easy to introduce huge boost leaks to the car that are especially hard to notice and potentially damaging because they are biased to one cylinder.

 

[Rengar18]

I believe you should log timing, fuel trims (low/mid/high), Oxygen sensor, Battery level, Throttle Position, Engine rpm, Injector pulse width, Injector duty %(or cycle) and knock sum. Pretty sure thats the necessities, someone correct me if missed something. Also try using the MUTIII option. That should yield a more consistent log speed.

 

[dboyle23]

Ok, so I set my injector scaling to 580, and reset my ecu. Was initially great. Idled around 13.5 afr. When it warmed to operating temperature the afr jumped to 16.5-17.5 and occasionally going over 18. It was perfect one second and then really lean the next. I turned the car off and tried again 2 minutes later, same thing.

I will try lowering the scaling a little more to get the afr good enough to log.

Ok, so I just tried 520 and it idled good at 13.5, then at operating temp dropped to around 10.5.

So I am going to try something in the middle, like 540.

Also, is it ok my idle is really rough right now? Sounds like I have a cam.

 

[the_mork]

It will sound like that until you have your scaling closer. When the car first starts up it should be pretty rich because extra fuel is injected for cranking and warmup. Consistent AFRs should show up within a minute. What you want is to get to the point where the car will go into closed loop and adjust fueling itself at which point you can use fuel trims to give you more direction.

 

[dboyle23]

Right now, at startup it almost dies right away. Then afr's skyrocket to over 18, then after a minute they calm down.

Oh, my idle is WAY off too. Would idle around 750-800, now it idles at like 1400.

 

[the_mork]

Are you closer than you were before? If so keep working in that direction. Once you add the higher deadtimes you'll be raising the size of the injectors a bit so if the car is good enough that you aren't afraid to run it then go ahead and add back in the suggested deadtimes but remember that you'll have to still adjust them as you go because they wont be perfect.

Also, ignore basically anything that happens within a minute or two of starting the car. This time has too many other factors that you aren't prepared to deal with to be indicative of what is actually happening with your car. If you had really really large injectors (1000+cc) then we'd probably have to adjust some of the startup tables and I'd have to refer you to someone more familiar with the H8 ecu since my experience is largely based on the evo8 ecu but because your injectors are a reasonable size this sort of work isn't necessary unless you are very very picky. Once your injectors are scaled properly your startup will be normal.

I also think you've gone too rich and your ecu is starting by overcompensating at first to bring fueling into line then leveling out. When you get close enough that idle isn't crazy high then you can used combined fuel trim to determine which way to go and how far away you are after letting it idle for 16 minutes per adjustment (and reset the ecu each time).

 

[dboyle23]

Ok, It is getting better but here is a question.

It starts up and idles bad for a minute, then idles GREAT for like 5 minutes, then BAM back to idling terrible at 15-18 afr. Should I be ignoring the GREAT idle since it is only within a few minutes of startup?

Oh my boost gauge hose was being pinched, that would be a problem .

eh, fixing the boost hose didn't help.

What table is the car reading when it initially starts up?
What table after 1-2 minutes in? When the idle is great
What table after that? When the idle goes bad again.

 

[the_mork]

I'm not familiar enough with H8 ecus to answer those questions directly and if I were then this post would also likely be quite long.

The ecu is PROBABLY reading your main fuel map, but then also using several other maps to adjust for being at a low temperature, being within a short time of startup, barometric pressure, and a number of other maps. Most of those maps are delta maps in which case their job is to alter the fueling, by some amoutn enleaning or enriching the desired mixture slightly to account for the differences which they are designed to control. Trust me, when it comes to 660cc injectors those maps are not important except under extreme conditions and they should not be futzed with until the injectors are scaled perfectly.

Your boost gauge hose being pinched wont affect anything unless you are talking about a MAP sensor used for SD. It doesn't matter if the air gets to your gauge or not since you're not losing that metered air anyway. The end of the line for that air is the end of the line even if it is a few inches closer to the engine.

Usually the car will lean out after a couple of minutes under open loop, a while after that it will usually lean out some more. This is the result of the startup enrichment timers expiring and subsequently warmup enrichment timers.

Is the car for sure going into and staying in closed loop? You might just not be close enough for the maximum closed loop adjustments to keep you in line once the car stats running in a more normal drive mode.

 

[dboyle23]

How can I check if it is in open or closed loop?

 

[Absit]

Generally speaking, if you're coolant temp is > 181*F and you're idling, you're in closed loop.
You can log this if you use the DSM settings. Personally I would have fixed the logging issue before trying to tune, without the DSM settings you don't get knock..

 

[dboyle23]

Actually I got it working properly, so I can measure temp and knock now.

btw, ltft's are not populating after a 16minute idle.

Ok, so I have it idling great. The AFR map is 14.2-14.3 and I am getting that on my wideband. So, what needs to be altered next to make the idle be not so choppy? Latency?

Any help you guys give will help the community. After I am done tuning my gsx I am going to post a write up on how to get a good tune for dsm's using ECUFlash. Not, just a tech article on how it works, since there are a ton of those, but more of a guide to help a beginner tune their vehicle.

Yeah, I'm not getting it, everytime I turn the car on it's a different story, even with the same settings. Turn it on once, its great, turn it off and turn it back on, its WAY off and terrible.

Ok, I diagnosed my problem. It most assuredly is the boost hose kinking up. It idles bad for awhile and then as soon as the air pressure makes it way passed the kink, the idle starts to sound REALLY good. When it goes bad again I tap on the gas to get the air pressure through the kink, and voila sounds good again. I will have to get some new hose.

 

[Absit]

Post
A
Log

 

[dboyle23]

I need to wire my wideband in to the ecu, then I will post a log.