2G What is this noise? Balance shaft belt snapped or what?

[atruepretense]

Hey everyone,

I've had this noise in my engine for a little while. It's like a rrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound coming from near the exhaust cam. It's not rod knock, I know that, but if anyone doesn't mind watching the YouTube video, let me know what you think it is.

YouTube - What is that sound? DSM

 

[BLINKY619]

sounds like its rubing against something.... and whats up with the lights.... do you have a short? have you checked if your cam has play?

 

[SrKegler]

That sounds like ordinary lifter tick to me.

 

[atruepretense]

That sounds like ordinary lifter tick to me.

Maybe it's cause of the quality. I mean I have the classic lifter tick, but lifter tick never should sound like "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr". If I could get a clearer microphone, it'd be better.

sounds like its rubing against something.... and whats up with the lights.... do you have a short? have you checked if your cam has play?

Which lights? The dash lights? If it's that, my SRS is on because the previous owner replaced the airbags, but not the module (it was set off).

The check engine is cause of an o2, I gotta change it. The rest is pretty basic. I'll have to check though. I was thinking it was maybe rubbing against the lower timing cover, or maybe even one of the tensioners.

 

[DSMer541]

Maybe a balance shaft bearing? Mine kinda sounded like that when I blew a bs bearing.... drain the oil and check it.

 

[atruepretense]

Maybe a balance shaft bearing? Mine kinda sounded like that when I blew a bs bearing.... drain the oil and check it.

Ah okay, i'll go ahead and check it. I'll post the results.

 

[ziggo0]

Does your timing belt have a lot of deflection when rev'd?

 

[atruepretense]

Does your timing belt have a lot of deflection when rev'd?

Yeah, it does a bit between the cams. As far as I can tell, timing is dead on. Though it does it more around 3k or so. I was concerned about it, but since I'm going to be doing the timing belt, I didn't worry much.. What do you think?

 

[dsmconvict]

You have the worst luck You know my number if ya need anything

 

[atruepretense]

You have the worst luck You know my number if ya need anything

what's good Chris. I was gonna give you a holler but didn't wanna keep bothering you.

I honestly don't understand how a DSM can give me so many problems, and I don't even really beat on it, and I care for it like it's my baby.

I guess I can blame this on the previous owner (The second owner). His exact words to me were, "Yeah dude, I love the turbo, but i'm a Honda guy". Of course I contacted the 1st owner of the car, and he was an older 50 some year old guy, so I know it wasn't him beating on it.

I almost didn't buy it, but for the price, I couldn't beat it.

It's okay, i'm going to figure this out with the help of all you fine people, and since I now have a pretty good paying job, a rebuild is very, very close by

 

[dsmconvict]

Dont worry about it, you're not bothering me at all bro. Anything you're gonna need just shoot me a pm on here or get at me on aim... I probably have it somewhere or another I gotta stop up and help ya with this pile. Have you changed the t-belt since the last time I was up? I recall you having trouble with that then.

 

[BLINKY619]

I honestly don't understand how a DSM can give me so many problems, and I don't even really beat on it, and I care for it like it's my baby.

WELCOME TO THE DSM WORLD... LIKE SOMEONE HERE STATED NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOU TREAT THE CAR AND NO MATTER HOW MUCH MAINTENANCE YOU GIVE IT... IT WILL EVENTUALLY GIVE YOU SOME SORT OF PROBLEM... SOME ARE LUCKY AND GET AWAY WITH IT AND I GOTTA SAY MOST DONT... THAT WHY YOU ALWAYS SEE PEOPLE HERE ASKING QUESTION AND ASKING FOR HELP CAUSE THERE CAR KEEPS MESSING UP....!!!

like some guy here had on his signature...


Daily Scheduled Maintenance

 

[atruepretense]

So yesterday I was driving down the road, and around 2-3k rpm I would here a kind of knocking. (not rod knock). I parked the car and looked at the engine, and revved it up, it sounded like it was coming from the exhaust cam, which is where I had a weird sound before. Well I needed to get to work and had no ride, so I took my car. I kept hearing this noise right around 2-3k rpm and as I was going off an exit, I have like a snap or a thunk and the car started to sputter, so I immediately shut it off. I thought my timing belt blew out, but it's still on there and it's still in timing (up top at least). I think I blew the balance shaft. I tried to crank it over again, and it did, but it idled really low and was sort of pinging. So i shut it off again right away. What are the symptoms of a blown balance shaft bearing, or even the balance shaft breaking?

I'll post up a video of what it sounded like before.

Any help people? I have done all the right tune ups and what needed

Also, I have been wondering, when i moved by exhaust cam gear, it moved back and forth slightly by hand, while the intake cam was stiff in place. It it possible that my cam broke? I'll be taking off the valve cover just in case, but how likely? Because that whole sound seemed like it was coming from up top.

 

[BLINKY619]

maybe..... when and if the belt snapped it might of gotten in between the belt and pulley and made it skip a tooth or so.... might want to check it out... but dont crank it any more ... you risk the chance of more damage and bent valves if so....!!!!!

 

[SBR Joe]

Pull the timing cover off and check. If the BS belt did break, just remove it and run without. Alot of guys including myself have run and still run just one balance shaft. As long as the rear one is in phase and the belt hasnt jumped to make it a tooth or so out it will be fine to run only that one. Also drain the oil to look for metal shavings just to be certain you dont have a fudged up main, rod, or balance shaft bearing.

 

[atruepretense]

Pull the timing cover off and check. If the BS belt did break, just remove it and run without. Alot of guys including myself have run and still run just one balance shaft. As long as the rear one is in phase and the belt hasnt jumped to make it a tooth or so out it will be fine to run only that one. Also drain the oil to look for metal shavings just to be certain you dont have a fudged up main, rod, or balance shaft bearing.

Ah okay, i'll definitely do that. Do you think that if just the balance shaft belt, the car would idle really rough. Like bad rough. I'll film it if needed.

 

[Hubbard 0]

My balance shaft belt broke last week and traveled all the way out of the timing cover. I only knew something was wrong because of the noise it made for a second or two, then it idled fine. With only one balance shaft you'll have slightly more vibrations.

You probably skipped timing, pop off the timing cover and check it out. I skipped several teeth on both cams, but got lucky and didn't have any valve contact.

 

[SBR Joe]

Ah okay, i'll definitely do that. Do you think that if just the balance shaft belt, the car would idle really rough. Like bad rough. I'll film it if needed.

Yes if somehow it skipped time and the other balance shaft was out of phase a few teeth, and just the fact of it being out of time would cause a big idle problem.

Tear the cover off and see what youre working with to start, then get back to me.

 

[atruepretense]

Yes if somehow it skipped time and the other balance shaft was out of phase a few teeth, and just the fact of it being out of time would cause a big idle problem.

Tear the cover off and see what youre working with to start, then get back to me.

Well I still haven't gotten a chance to do a compression test or even check the timing. Now here's my question (Just trying to get an idea of how much $$$ ill need to spend)

When i was driving, i heard a thud/snap like sound and the rpm started dropping and i shut it off. I turned it over once more, and it sounded like hell, but it held a rough idle on it's own. So i'm thinking maybe my valves didn't bend. I mean how many teeth off does it take to bend usually?

My brother in law has generously allowed me to use his garage as much as I want, and he has all the tools to make some of us cream our pants in happiness. So i'll be towing the car there, jacking it up, and getting back to you guys! Thanks so far!

 

[BLINKY619]

My car skiped past 11 times within the last month and still have good compression

 

[atruepretense]

So my biggest fear was realized. A while ago, I posted a thread on here asking what could possibly be wrong with my car.

I ran a compression test and cam up with 0 - 90 - 90 - 0. Which is very low, and of course means bent valves. I don't know why i'm down at 90, but it held at 90.

Well, I took the head off and I am now completely puzzled. My timing belt had not snapped, it was well tensioned, and the balance shaft belt was still intact. Although when I lined up the timing on the cams, the crank and oil pump were pointing towards like 5 o clock instead of the 10-11 o clock area.

So i'm getting new valves, and of course going to change the head gasket since i'm already there and maybe ARPs if I can afford it. To be honest, the head bolts that were on didn't look stock, and may be ARPs. Anything that'll help me tell them apart? Also, what would cause me to jump timing when nothing is visible? I also noticed a bit of "piston slap". Not very much, it was minimal, barely moved 1mm side to side.

My question is, what else should I replace? I'm at a $400-$500 budget since it's my DD. I know the basics, Valves, HG, OEM Tbelt and B-Belt along with water pump, etc...

What else should I do guys? Anyone know what the hell is going on? What would mysteriously cause me to jump timing? The old Tbelt showed no signs of jumping or cracking or anythign. This is my first time doing a DSM Timing belt, so i may be wrong about being off. What else should I check for? Think piston rings are bad?
Thanks!

 

[JacksonAuto]

Even if the marks still line up there are ways that valves can get bent. Over revving, floating or they can be held open by faulty lifters. This doesn't seem likely though since No.1 and No.4 cylinder are both dead. That sounds like the timing was off.

While it's apart you're going to want to pressure test the head, check the guides since valves were bent, replace the valves and have a valve job done.

 

[DSM_PWR]

At minimum...
I would get the block honed and replace the piston rings, you can buy a set from partsdinosaur for $50

Also make sure to get a master gasket set and replace all the gaskets/seals while your down there... costs around $70-$80 and it comes with a composite headgasket

Its not hard to tell the difference between ARPS and headbolts....
*Headbolts are exactly that... a bolt
*Headstuds consist of a stud, washer and 12-point nut... plus its labeled "ARP" on the nut

 

[BogusSVO]

Along with Jam said... pull off your crank pulley and check if the key and/or keyway in the crank and gear are damaged.

Alot of the time the stock spring are weak from age/abuse and you can "sling" the valve open to far and tey will meet the pistons, this happens in an over rev (missed shift)

 

[atruepretense]

At minimum...
I would get the block honed and replace the piston rings, you can buy a set from partsdinosaur for $50

Also make sure to get a master gasket set and replace all the gaskets/seals while your down there... costs around $70-$80 and it comes with a composite headgasket

Its not hard to tell the difference between ARPS and headbolts....
*Headbolts are exactly that... a bolt
*Headstuds consist of a stud, washer and 12-point nut... plus its labeled "ARP" on the nut

Ah okay, then these are definitely not ARPs. I already bought the master gasket set, a fel-pro one, I waned to get a OEM HG. Or should I just use the Fel-pro one? I wanted to do an overhaul while I had it apart.

Along with Jam said... pull off your crank pulley and check if the key and/or keyway in the crank and gear are damaged.

Alot of the time the stock spring are weak from age/abuse and you can "sling" the valve open to far and tey will meet the pistons, this happens in an over rev (missed shift)

I already pulled off the crank, but didn't check the gear itself, so i'll check it out later today. When this happened, I was riding along normally on an exit off the highway. I heard a loud clunk or bang and the RPMs dropped. Before I tore it apart, it idled if cranked, just very poorly.

I know I definitely didn't over rev. I'll check it all out, any other things I should check guys? Thank you for all the help so far!