What do I need for 20 psi?

[napkinthief]

Ok my turbo is only waiting on the intercooler and wastegate to come. Here is my full setup:

t3/t4 57 trim .48 a/r turbo
star cast manifold, ported
tial 35mm wastegate
walbro 255
vortech 12:1
Autometer phantom boost gauge
ebay mbc
hks knockoff
2.5" hard ic piping
24" x 5" x 3" core FMIC (28" x6" x 3" overall) 2.5 inlet and outlet
stock internals
gst catback, 3" downpipe, stock cat


Here is what I am planning on getting so far

3" cat, 3" catback to complete the full 3" exhaust
toss the vortech and get a 1:1 afpr and a megasquirt, not sure of injectors
low comp short block or low comp rebuild ( which do you guys recommend ? )
arp studs, mls gasket, no head work yet


for the engine, is it possible to rebuild it by just pulling the head and working on the internals, or am I better off getting another engine, rebuilding that to what I want, then just swapping engines?

what else do I need? and would 20 psi daily be ok or is something less more desirable? I do want some reliability, but I know it wont be the best since there just so much power coming out of the engine. also, I am guessing around 300 hp from the setup, you guys think its a good guess?


EDIT

And let me just add, if I dont make the numbers I am thinking of making, I will continue modding the car until I do. When I finally do get to the 300 hp mark, I will want the 325, then 350, and I will keep going until the car simply wont want to go any faster.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

for the engine, is it possible to rebuild it by just pulling the head and working on the internals, or am I better off getting another engine, rebuilding that to what I want, then just swapping engines?

what else do I need? and would 20 psi daily be ok or is something less more desirable? I do want some reliability, but I know it wont be the best since there just so much power coming out of the engine. also, I am guessing around 320 hp from the setup, you guys think its a good guess?

It's virtually impossible to rebuild the engine while still in the car. I'm sure it can be done, but the space considerations, orientation of parts and total down time would be severe limiting factors.

In South Florida, I can find 420A blocks (complete with internals, etc.) for $100 from local junkyards. I'd rather pay that $100 and swap a completely rebuilt engine into the car rather than rush through the rebuild after taking your own engine out.

20 psi sounds like a little much for something that's driven daily, but it can be done. It would require some careful tuning to prevent damage. I'd recommend something closer to 15 psi, though. With that amount of air flowing in (~15 psi) I would estimate around 300 hp with low compression pistons.

 

[selmerguy]

You need a good turbo, intercooler, built motor, and wastegate. A fuel system that can handle that amount of fuel and tuning. You will need to control spark too. Megasquirt should work well for you. I think 20 psi is fine for street driving. You should never get that high driving around town unless you are dogging the crap out of it. My friend has a evo doing 23 psi and it drives nice aroung town. Just dont leave every light like your on the track. I made it sound simple but it is not. 20 psi is a lofty goal but very realistic. If i was you I would worrie about getting my turbo kit on my car and running good before I turn up the boost. Also get a good spare block so you can build on it. You will blow you stock motor eventually. Do it all in stages. You will have trouble driving your car if you go from what it is now to a 20psi boosting beast. Unless you have lots of driving experiance with different high hp cars. Take your time get to know your dsm and you will be there.

 

[XMasta19]

It's virtually impossible to rebuild the engine while still in the car. I'm sure it can be done, but the space considerations, orientation of parts and total down time would be severe limiting factors.

I know someone that did it just over winter before his tranny grenaded


Like sam said, try to do this in stages. We're in the same boat really as far as goals and what not, I'm just boosted already and have the upgrade parts here or on the way Started with boost on stock internals, megasquirt controlling fuel to boost around 15ish, then moving up to controlling spark as well and hitting that elusive 20psi mark Now if only I could get my axles out and it stopped snowing outside

 

[selmerguy]

I know someone that did it just over winter before his tranny grenaded


Like sam said, try to do this in stages. We're in the same boat really as far as goals and what not, I'm just boosted already and have the upgrade parts here or on the way Started with boost on stock internals, megasquirt controlling fuel to boost around 15ish, then moving up to controlling spark as well and hitting that elusive 20psi mark Now if only I could get my axles out and it stopped snowing outside

You need to get stationed where you have more then 2 seasons.(winter and fall)

 

[XMasta19]

... tell me bout it!!!


It's all good, at least it's above 0 now hehe

 

[napkinthief]

I am thinking of going up to IPT transmissions, its in my area, and asking for a quote on a manual swap with the ability to handle 400 hp, which is well over what I want to get.


eventhough I dont have boost yet, I am one step ahead of the game, knowing how much my next project is going to cost, and what proper measures must be taken.


btw x how did the tranny job go?

 

[XMasta19]

umm....my whole weekend was a drunken blur z, still kinda is hahaha. I tried to refrain from the drunken posting...on this forum at least. I never did get a prybar to try and get my axles out, but I'm gonna give it another good go (sober) in the afternoon when I get off work. Then I should be on my way to the 20psi club

 

[Blitzeclips]

Ok my turbo is only waiting on the intercooler and wastegate to come. Here is my full setup:

t3/t4 57 trim .48 a/r turbo
star cast manifold, ported
tial 35mm wastegate
walbro 255
vortech 12:1
Autometer phantom boost gauge
ebay mbc
hks knockoff
2.5" hard ic piping
24" x 5" x 3" core FMIC (28" x6" x 3" overall) 2.5 inlet and outlet
stock internals
gst catback, 3" downpipe, stock cat


Here is what I am planning on getting so far

3" cat, 3" catback to complete the full 3" exhaust
toss the vortech and get a 1:1 afpr and a megasquirt, not sure of injectors
low comp short block or low comp rebuild ( which do you guys recommend ? )
arp studs, mls gasket, no head work yet


for the engine, is it possible to rebuild it by just pulling the head and working on the internals, or am I better off getting another engine, rebuilding that to what I want, then just swapping engines?

what else do I need? and would 20 psi daily be ok or is something less more desirable? I do want some reliability, but I know it wont be the best since there just so much power coming out of the engine. also, I am guessing around 300 hp from the setup, you guys think its a good guess?


EDIT

And let me just add, if I dont make the numbers I am thinking of making, I will continue modding the car until I do. When I finally do get to the 300 hp mark, I will want the 325, then 350, and I will keep going until the car simply wont want to go any faster.

Rebuild isn't as easy as you make it sound napkin. It takes a whole lot of planning, tools, parts, risks, measuring, etc.. You need WAY more parts then you just listed for the swap. What about your lifters, rockers, valves, are you going ith stock cams? What about your drivetrain? Youre boosting 15-20psi on a stock clutch? I like youre thinking because youre very ambitious with goals on the car, so i don't want you to think im bashing on ya. I admire what youre doiing. But To rebuild the motor, you not only have to buy the parts (which will run you around $1500-$2000 EASILY) but you need the experience and time to do it. Have you ever rebuilt a motor before? It's not something new to dive into, let me tell ya... So if you haven't then you will need to pay for the rebuild services. Do you have a engine hoist for the swap?

Howell Automotive made my motor. Took them a hefty 14 weeks. You can find thier motors in all shapes and sizes here- http://www.howellautomotive.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=405 - If you're really trying to hit high HP, I would reccommend the 2.2 stoker with Long rod motor. The longer rods respond much better to boost then standard. Came straight from Gary's mouth (owner of company) and many others.. Also, oversized valves would push more air for that ported head you want. If you're doing this right, do it once and be done with it. Go all out on the motor if you want serious power, or else, you will be pulling it more often and spending more money.

There are many other parts you need including ulleys, gaskets, are you using the same crank? gears, crankshaft sprocket, new plugs and wires (unless you plan on using used ones on a new motor ) and some other things here and there. Check out howell to get the idea.

The setup you listed MAY hit 300hp. I'm not too sure about 300 WHP tho. Youre going to need some serious tuning for that dude. I'm just trying to make you aware of these goals because its ALOT of work . I wouldn't do 20psi daily myself because its just unneeded. Waste of gas, wear on parts, and risk of blowing gaskets much much more. To be honest, I've got a super 20g, bigass FMIC, all the plumbing, 3" downpipe, HKS SSQ BOV, and all the supporting mods you can think of.... I'll be lucky to see 350whp IMO.

My bad if I seem like a d**k with all this but I've done it before and its a shitload of work.

BTW I disagree with the stages recommended earlier. I don't see the purpose for it. If you want High horsepower then buy what is needed for that, working your way up just wastes time, money and parts. Why upgrade from SMIC to FMIC if you can put $50 into getting the FMIC right now, and saving yourself ahead of time? See what im sayin? I never went through the stages because I don't see a reason to. Why boost on a stock motor if you are going to blow it up? Then you can't sell the used block because its scorched to hell and the cylinder walls are scratched all to hell, not to mention youre stranded somewhere ### you got boost happy...

 

[selmerguy]

I didn't mean go from a side mount to a front mount. And if you have the money to build your motor and turbo it at the same time by all means go ahead. Most people are not that lucky though. If you have even more money left get the msns and suupporting mods. I will list parts and prices and you will see what this all will cost. These are parts only the price does not include labor.

Engine rebuild kit- 1100
Gaskets and arp headstuds- 200
Timing belt kit- 170
Turbo kit- 1500-3000 (since you are going for big hp then more twards the 3000)
msns-500
aeromotive-150
braided line and fittings-120
Injectors- 200 (again for big hp)

I am sure I missed something but with out labor and misc. thats over 5000 right there. Thats why I say do it in stages. Also if you are doing all the work it makes it easier to find a problem if you do it in stages. If you do it all at once espically with the msns you might have problems getting it all to work right togeather for the first time.

 

[napkinthief]

I am going to agree with the stages. Doing everything at once not only is very expensive, but also a lot of downtime all at once. I can afford to have my car down one day a week to work on it and maybe an hour a day to make sure everything is holding on tight. Right now its my only car, and I am looking for something bigger to make my daily, so I can make this little monster roar.

And you said engine building is something you dont just dive into. A custom turbo kit isn't something you just dive into either, but hey I did it. I dont take offense from your post, its good points you are making and I beleive some people including me, at some time can't handle what they are getting into. I dunno but there is just something different about the car when someone asks you where you got the car, and you say I built it.

 

[XMasta19]

hmm....blitz, you have all those parts yet your profile says 95 eclipse n/t. that's about the only thing I'm gonna comment on from that entire novel

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Food for thought....Injectors with MS, go for 680cc siemens deka. My 550's are at 80% duty at 15psi.

Our tranny will handle 500hp + stock as it is. Dont wheel hop the differential and you will be ok. Adding an LSD will work wonders as well. At 15+ heat will become a big factor. Consider aluminum radiator and running spark with the MS. When you run spark, give the car to a dyno and let them tune the spark tables.

You can add other factors to run high boost like alcohal injection ect.

Terry

 

[Blitzeclips]

I am going to agree with the stages. Doing everything at once not only is very expensive, but also a lot of downtime all at once. I can afford to have my car down one day a week to work on it and maybe an hour a day to make sure everything is holding on tight. Right now its my only car, and I am looking for something bigger to make my daily, so I can make this little monster roar.

And you said engine building is something you dont just dive into. A custom turbo kit isn't something you just dive into either, but hey I did it. I dont take offense from your post, its good points you are making and I beleive some people including me, at some time can't handle what they are getting into. I dunno but there is just something different about the car when someone asks you where you got the car, and you say I built it.

You all make good points too. I never said you upgraded from SMIC to FMIC, it was an example. But I was referring to the Stages AFTER motor rebuild. I think you all missed what I meant. If you build your motor as Napkin was referring to doing, then putting everything on at once would be the best POA for saving money, time, and parts. Buying, selling, then buying upgraded parts one after the other would put you in a deeper debt then doing putting everything you want on once and for good. If you know what you want and where it will put your car, just buy the necessary items for the setup rather then buying parts and getting half your money back for them 3 months later.

Engines are much, much more important then the turbo process. Trying to rebuild a motor you know slightly well is much more tedious, time consuming, and tool eqipped then boosting. Lets say you miss setting the rings properly throughout the rebild. You spend days already just pulling, rebuilding, and dropping the motor back in. Not to mention the garage you need (if you can find it) extra hand or two, engine lift, and PLENTY more tools for the job. You finally get the motor back in, and start the car. Sounds good for a minute, then the rings get loose, and you scratch the hell out your cylinder walls (atleast) to the point its not even driveable (reliability wise). Now you have to repeat the whole process because of that one, single, flaw.

To turbocharge a car is much more easy then removing, rebuilding, and reinstalling your motor. It requires much less tools, and can be done within a day. It's a simple combination of parts for most cars (this is generally speaking based on their model and requires much more common sense if you think about it. The amount of flaws to jeopardize the amount of time put into boosting would be much more broad then a motor rebuild. In other words: A flaw during the turbo process is much less time and money comsuming then a flaw during the motor rebuild. Anyways, hope I didn't lose ya guys on that one.

xmasta, yes I am N/a. I've turbocharged enough cars to grasp the concept of a install. It's not like I'm walking into it blind folded here. I'll be sure to list my dyno sheet for you when I do tho...

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Food for thought....Injectors with MS, go for 680cc siemens deka. My 550's are at 80% duty at 15psi.

Our tranny will handle 500hp + stock as it is. Dont wheel hop the differential and you will be ok. Adding an LSD will work wonders as well. At 15+ heat will become a big factor. Consider aluminum radiator and running spark with the MS. When you run spark, give the car to a dyno and let them tune the spark tables.

You can add other factors to run high boost like alcohal injection ect.

Terry

Sorry guys, Xmasta corrected me. The Siemens Deka injectors are only available in 630cc and 788cc injectors. If you want 680cc then delphi injectors would be the next option.

For the record, out all the injectors tested Accel made by siemens Deka have been the best idling characteristics. The injectors tests were completed by Dougie2 on 2GNT.

Terry

 

[XMasta19]

woo hoo...now all I feel like I kinda gave back a little for all the good you've done

so would this be what you're talkin bout: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Siem...ryZ33554QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


The green top 42#'s just won't cut it with my brand new squirt that just arrived

 

[napkinthief]

I am going to want a set of injectors that works well on the street and during normal driving, but also can push the amount of fuel I need when I boost to 20 psi.

I was thinking of having a toggle switch between 10 and 20 psi or 15 and 20 psi. So I can flip it for track time and flip it back for when I want to conserve some gas and just cruise.

And as for the rebuild, theres never a better time to start. I will take my time when I do it, and check every clearance multiple times, and make sure everything is perfect.

 

[XMasta19]

umm, about that switch...dual setting boost controller

 

[napkinthief]

Yea couldn't think of the name off the top of my head, these finals for school are killing me, I know more about the harmful effects of the environmental pollution in africa than I do about my car. Funny thing is im majoring in Computer Networking, but hey thats electives for you.

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Guys be careful of ebay. Prices have gotten out of hand. those injectors are 200.00 new.

http://www.racetronix.com/L107.html

Terry

 

[XMasta19]

wowzer...good call.

...so those 1% flow matched ones they advertised would be the best bet?

EDIT: All Racetronix 50lb/hr and larger injectors are dynamically flowed and matched in-house with our state-of-the-art computerized injector flow bench where indicated by the FM designation.

So, those siemens deka and delphi injectors are all direct fit plug and play?

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Yes they should be. If you have any doubts, call them and ask if they fit a 5.0 mustang or LT1 z28. Those are the same size fitting as ours are.

Terry

 

[napkinthief]

Yes they should be. If you have any doubts, call them and ask if they fit a 5.0 mustang or LT1 z28. Those are the same size fitting as ours are.

Terry

Why not just ask if they fit a non-turbo eclipse? Dont be ashamed of what you have


Would the stock 5.0 mustang injectors be of any use for my application?

 

[XMasta19]

Well there's no telling they'll have any idea what you're talkin about if you told them you had an 420a n/t eclipse, but if you say 5.0 mustang, I'm sure they'll be more likely to help you quicker. I think I'm in the mood for a set of those 75#'s

EDIT: hmm, I wonder if those 86lb/903cc's are a tad too big