Well, I'm back with proof. Running OEM Atmosphere BOV.

[forcefed86]

Well I was bashed and instantly had 100 people telling me I couldn't do it. Well I did, and it works just fine. Nothing crazy rich on the shifts and no poor idle or driveabilty issues.

Installed LC2 WB02. Went for a test run...

First run with the BOV setup OEM style. At 18lbs WOT I'm seeing around 9.5:1 AFR's. Lifting to shift (BOV active) AFR's jump to mid to high 12's. Then jump back up to 9.5:1.

Swapped in my brass check valve vented to atmosphere. PLugged open hole on intake tube. Same WOT AFR's same boost. At the shift AFR jumps up a bit less at 10.2-10.6, then drops back to mid 9's.

So there it is... do what U will with it. It's sure not washing down any cylinders running at 10:1. That is leaner than the factory map!

The factory AFR targets are as follows.

Also for what it's worth I've done the "dodge garage" MOD to the BOV. If anything this probably slows down the BOV, but thought I'd mention it.

Simple brass check valve installed. I've since painted everything black. But this pic shows the valve assy better.

 

[tkelly27]

With a properly vented system you will not see a performance gain vs. a recirculated system. If you can prove this, do so. I've yet to see any turbocharged racing car with a recirculated blow off valve unless it is required that they do so. Most will run a Tial vented to atmosphere.

I had a turboxs valve that was vented on mine and I would foul out the plugs every week or so. Recirculating fixed the plug fouling. Say what you will, do what you want, it's bad.

If you have a 1g and an ostrich to run tunerpro why are you even messing around with a mass air sensor anyway? You're a $20 map sensor and a junkyard IAT sensor away from running speed density.
DS-MAP.NET • Index page

 

[habitatguy187]

My goodness does everyone have to say the same thing over and over? Quit bashing by saying the exact same thing as the person above you, you're not cool because you can put someone down in car knowledge....

Forcefed I like what you've done, you actually tested it to see the difference and exactly how rich you will be. And you've discovered that you won't wash out your rings, one myth busted. You and everyone else knows that the car doesn't run exactly the same, but you're ok with that, that's cool man.

Everyone needs to stop being nancies and let the man do what he wants, it's his car what do you care as long as he knows the consequences? At least he had the intellect to test the difference rather than follow the crowd, and I would bet that he's a lot more experienced than most of you bashing in here.

 

[JusMX141]

You and everyone else knows that the car doesn't run exactly the same, but you're ok with that, that's cool man.

I know that and you know that, but 99% of the noobs don't. They're going to read this thread and think it's OK to vent whenever you want without reading deep into the info.

 

[habitatguy187]

I know that and you know that, but 99% of the noobs don't. They're going to read this thread and think it's OK to vent whenever you want without reading deep into the info.

They'll find out , the first time they let off the throttle from boosting and don't push the clutch in they'll feel the bucking and no that something's up, and before long they'll get an itch and start searching for answers, and if they don't then they're not going to be one to own their dsm for long anyway, cause once it starts breaking down from the abuse with no maintenance they'll ditch it.

Not trying to be the bad guy I completely understand what you're saying, and I have a lot of respect for you and your vast knowledge of cars, I just think that everyone takes it overboard and avoids it like the plague.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Congrats man. If it works for you, it works for you. There's a million little things that change from one car to the next. Be wary of those who make broad generalized statements.

Also, some people in this thread have absolutely no clue what they're talking about when they speak of a/f ratios. I mean, like wow, do some research before spreading your misinformation.

Tunerpro is a lot of fun once you get the hang of it. Here's a comparison of the modded a/f table I'm using (left) and the stock a/f table (right).

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[JayRolla]

I don't know why we're still having this discussion after all these years.

Here's all the proof I need: when I first got my TSi FWD, I attempted to run the valve vented between my house and my buddy's house, and the damn car stalled everytime I came to a stoplight and pushed in the clutch. Needless to say I hooked the dump tube back up, and never looked back.

Anyone that wants to risk stalling at every intersection to make their blow off valve 2dB louder is out of their mind.


If you're running a high enough boost level, it doesn't matter whether the valve is vented or not. We've done that experiment on a friend's 2G running around 25psi using a 1G BOV on our way home from the drag strip one night.

I have ran my 16g with and without venting. I dont agree that its a little louder, when its vented Its almost 10 times louder on my car. Loud enough where my brother is jealous of my maf-t over his 2g maf setup.

Anyways I have ran vented to the air and it didnt buck that bad. The issues I had where rich between shifts causing backfires and fireballs out the exhaust but the car didnt stall or buck that bad.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Today I tried this for SH@$S and giggles and at first noticed no difference until I tried to give it gas it almost died then once I got going it wasn't to bad until I put it to the floor it bogged down and bucked a little it took some time to build boost and once it did it only built about 10lbs Im running 18 so dont know what is going on with mine but im going to recirculate for a long time. Not saying it didnt work for you but it sure F*^$me up.

 

[forcefed86]

For all those speaking of bucking etc.....

This only happens if you don't have the check valve in place as I said. Read the thread in it's entirety before commenting. OR claiming you tried it and it didn't work.

MAFT setups are horrible unless you have a way of tuning your fuel and esp. timing maps to reap the full benefits.

For the average joe that wants a VTA BOV this works w/ minimal "side effects".

I've said my peace, and proved my point. I'm sure it won't be my last controversial discussion...

Thanks to all that listened.

 

[97Boosted]

welcome to dsmtuners full of people who like to talk shit because they know eveything and anyone that doesnt agree is completely wrong. this site has some good info but usually it disguts me how people act towards each other on here, and i know, ive had my fair share.

 

[wickednightmare]

Hey guys i had a turbosmart BOV and it lets you recirculate and vent. I had no problem and its safer. It was a little expensive if i remember corectly.

http://www.turbosmartonline.com/index.php?id=46

 

[wishnfor4g63T]

If I can find someone willing to loan me an intake tube with a recirculation port I would happily run logs with a MAP sensor which will show the difference in spool post blowoff, I'll even run them with the virtual dyno room so that you can see the difference in how fast horsepower comes on. There is a HUGE difference and if you don't want to see it then so be it but 98+% of DSMers do want their cars to run right and squeeze ever ounce of power out of their motors, if you would rather have silly sounds than a car that runs the way it is supposed to then that is your business but to say that it works just because you've managed to marginally reduce the significant negative effects is largely bullshit.

Props on trying to fix a problem creatively but until you really understand that problem and why your solution doesn't work then don't preach against a dogma that is rooted in fact and extensive testing.

Iono about you..In your first post it was something about being lazy and not welding to have your intake recirculated. Now your posting if i can find someone to loan me an intake tube ah wtf.

I'm seriously not hating on you but this guy is just trying to prove 1 point. This guy is putting it out there being nice not trying to cut anyones throats saying hey, It's not that bad of a deal just look.

EVERYONE on this site knows the negatives and 1 positive *the sound* at venting. If your gonna poke him about doing all this stuff at least step it up and go to your local shop and do a weld.

 

[Lusion972]

I'm sorry, but going on 2 pages I still haven't seen the purpose of this thread. The OP is trying to say that he is such a ricer that he would rather have the BOV sound instead of a properly running car. Everyone else is saying that its stupid and I'm still here sitting confused. You welded in some plumbing parts to your car just so you could keep the sound. You know they sell the turbo sound things on ebay right?

 

[paultheninja]

I'm sorry, but going on 2 pages I still haven't seen the purpose of this thread. The OP is trying to say that he is such a ricer that he would rather have the BOV sound instead of a properly running car. Everyone else is saying that its stupid and I'm still here sitting confused. You welded in some plumbing parts to your car just so you could keep the sound. You know they sell the turbo sound things on ebay right?

Before we go calling other people ricers, maybe you should learn how to read. Thats not what the op was at all.

"Look I'm just saying I bunked the whole myth that running a vented BOV causes a massively rich condition while shifting. Also, there is no cylinder wash down etc. It is slightly richer than with the valve recirculating but not more so than the fuel maps"

He came in here with proof to his original post. That is respectable even when people don't agree with venting your BOV.

 

[the_mork]

Iono about you..In your first post it was something about being lazy and not welding to have your intake recirculated. Now your posting if i can find someone to loan me an intake tube ah wtf.

I'm seriously not hating on you but this guy is just trying to prove 1 point. This guy is putting it out there being nice not trying to cut anyones throats saying hey, It's not that bad of a deal just look.

EVERYONE on this site knows the negatives and 1 positive *the sound* at venting. If your gonna poke him about doing all this stuff at least step it up and go to your local shop and do a weld.

I'm in a somewhat different situation than he is. My car does not have a mass airflow sensor. I can run around without intercooler piping with no negative effects except that the car isn't fast, and in fact I did that just the other day when I missed a clamp after adjusting my intercooler setup.

I will weld a port onto my intake tube when I get the opportunity but I've been a little too busy to worry about something like that for the moment seeing as I've just moved, recently broke my transmission (fixed now), and just started the semester. Furthermore it is a really big PITA for me to get welding done right now because I need to take the piece to Wausau on a weekend and give it to my buddy who then takes it to work during the week, and then I can pick it up the next weekend. It isn't an ideal situation for me right now.

Oh and did I mention that I have an automatic? When I want to go fast my car doesn't blow off.

Furthermore not everyone knows the negative effects of venting. Members of this forum have been fighting misinformation and silly theories about venting since this board was first created.

Forcefed has started this project in a way that I think is correct and that I admire. The problem that I see is that the scope of his experimentation is too limited and he is ignoring other negative effects. I would also be significantly less critical if this wasn't considered an end stage solution and was presented as a step in the direction of venting to the atmosphere with diminished negative effects. Every time someone posts threads like this noobs get the idea that they can vent and that there is a legitimate discussion of its merits versus its negative effects. There isn't, and there probably never will be with a stock-MAF car.

 

[casperfast]

Why wouldnt you just recirc with a metal tube , if you want the noise, keep an air horn next to you or wire it into a button on your TurboNos steering wheel that disconnects with a pushy twist.

GL

!!!! ssssssmack. like little gariputo at the 7-11, " why u have an intercooler but no blow off valve?"

........ really?

 

[forcefed86]

!!!! ssssssmack. like little gariputo at the 7-11, " why u have an intercooler but no blow off valve?"

........ really?

You are both morons.


And just for a little update I ran recirc VS non-recirc 1/4 miles passes on a friends Gtech-pro. Rolled into it very slowly to keep times as consistent as possible. Both runs netted within 1/2 a MPH and were within 2 tenths of each other.

 

[MidShipCivic]

So wasting fuel, having lower mpg and being slower is something good to justify.. huh.

 

[forcefed86]

So wasting fuel, having lower mpg and being slower is something good to justify.. huh.

Once again, mindless chatter. Until you've gone out and done some real world testing. All of that info is speculation.

Aside from possible slower spool times between shifts in an autoxross situation. I don't see any major difference in my numbers. The slight variation in the gtech runs were probably due to slight launch differences. Both runs being within .5mph tells me if there is a performance difference it's pretty insignificant.

But we've already been over all of this.

 

[nytescion]

Go ahead and say that you don't notice a difference but I and everyone else who has experience with these cars KNOWS that there is a performance loss even in conditions such as a blowthrough setup or SD.

Are you saying there is a performance loss even with maft or sd? I would say not when i was running my 2g mas with bov vta my wideband would go so rich it woudn't register between shifts. Now that I'm running maft and bov vta it runs leans between shifts. As far as the OP posting his car was leaner between shifts with a stock mas and no recirc, I don't know about that either. Sounds like you might have a leak somewhere.

 

[black_gst]

THIS IS CRAZY!

I think there is a simple way to please everyone using this explanation. if you run a stock MAS then your air is measured pre BOV and if you decied to vent it then you will lose clean & cold meatered air, and you will run rich between shifts which the OP actually proved because 10:1 at 0% throttle is RICH... now if you really love the loud BOV then go ahead and keep it vented but there is a high chance you will cause damage to you engine over time.

if you want to do it the right way go with a SD setup or a blow through after the BOV

those are your options plan and simple

to the OP good luck because eventually venting your BOV improperly will catch up to you.

 

[habitatguy187]

because 10:1 at 0% throttle is RICH... now if you really love the loud BOV then go ahead and keep it vented but there is a high chance you will cause damage to you engine over time.

Factory 1g maps aim for 9.2:1 afr during wot pulls. This is according to twdorris (ecmlink founder)

to the OP good luck because eventually venting your BOV improperly will catch up to you.

No, I think he proved it won't.

 

[black_gst]

Factory 1g maps aim for 9.2:1 afr during wot pulls. This is according to twdorris (ecmlink founder)

you are correct! at wot with full boost not at 20in of vaccum between shifts

we are talking about 0% throttle between shifts. not WOT

No, I think he proved it won't.

and if the OP really wants to prove it, i have a true test for you and if you do this can tell me and everyone else to F*** off because this would be real proof

here goes

change you oil and recir you bov and drive on it for 1000 miles and then send you oil in to these guys for testing
Blackstone Labs

then change your oil and use the same oil and filter

then vent your BOV and take it for another 1000 miles and then send them an oil sample again... and if the amount of fuel in your oil hasnt increased then that will be proof that a vented BOV WILL NOT hurt a motor.

 

[habitatguy187]

you are correct! at wot with full boost not at 20in of vaccum between shifts

we are talking about 0% throttle between shifts. not WOT

And that matters why? The car runs richer during a pull than it does during the shift with the bov vented. And of course during regular driving (in vacuum) a vented bov has no effect at all.

and if the OP really wants to prove it, i have a true test for you and if you do this can tell me and everyone else to F*** off because this would be real proof

here goes

change you oil and recir you bov and drive on it for 1000 miles and then send you oil in to these guys for testing
Blackstone Labs

then change your oil and use the same oil and filter

then vent your BOV and take it for another 1000 miles and then send them an oil sample again... and if the amount of fuel in your oil hasnt increased then that will be proof that a vented BOV WILL NOT hurt a motor.

That can't be used as a reliable test. There's far too many variables involved. i.e. current condition of the motor, warm up time, how much boosting is done, ect and ect....

All of our cars have our oil contaminated by gas, that's why they came with a pcv valve factory. Why do you think even the big guys have more than one breather tube? They wouldn't need it if they weren't getting blowby.

And to anyone else reading this, realistically it would probably be a good thing for us to change our oil no later than every 2500 miles, I like to change mine around 2k. (but I use the cheap stuff)

 

[black_gst]

BS this test would be alot more reliable them him telling us what his afr's are between shifts... even if he had his wide band logged on link or something would be better

 

[snakeyes711]

I'd say it does affect performance, the point of a recirculated bypass valve is to keep the turbo spooled, and when you open the throttle again, its decreases the energy needed to spool it. Also since you got to respool the turbo your using more fuel to get that turbo going. In the long run it creates more lag, drop in performance, and increased fuel consumption. For what? Looking cool pulling up to the cruise strips, hang out spot? Each to his own I guess.