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2G Weird Starting Problem

Posted by Mham2k, Sep 3, 2019

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  1. Mham2k

    Mham2k Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 8, 2008
    Dallas, Texas
    I have a wierd starting problem.

    I get in the car in the morning and it starts fine, after driving to work 30 minutes it sounds like it is struggling to start but starts up every time. If I drive the car allll day and cut it off then start it up it will struggle to turn the starter but always starts

    The next morning it always starts up fine with no struggle.

    Things I have done
    1.) New battery , dips to 11 while starting no less
    2.) Starter is 6 months old, tests good at AutoZone
    3.) Removed all old wiring from a previous car alarm, this fixed most of my starting problems.
    4.) Starter is properly grounded to engine via bolt.
    5.) Alternator is charging properly verified through ecmlink logs and for my old battery tested before replacing. Said it was 100%, I assumed it was a battery problem but wasn't.

    Is there a fuse that could be old or getting hot whole driving?

    Could I be missing a ground somewhere?
     

    Street Build 539  1

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    2,325
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    Hoover, Alabama
    So what you're saying is that it has more trouble starting when warm?
    This seems completely backwards.
     

    Road Race Build 4K  10  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    72  6

    1998 Ford Mustang GT
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  3. Mham2k

    Mham2k Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 8, 2008
    Dallas, Texas
    Yep...

    It's either the starter or a wire or relay going to the starter .

    Starter tested good so don't think it's that...
     

    Street Build 539  1

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  4. AustinGST98

    AustinGST98 Proven Member

    32
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    Joined Nov 1, 2016
    East Hampton, Connecticut
    I’ve been having the exact problem, if i start it up instantly after starting it really struggles, but as it cools down almost nothing. I have an emergency starter on deck in case.

    Battery and alternator both fine, ran larger gauge wire to the engine bay (battery location) and checked my grounds. It’s almost like the engine is harder to turn over when hot.

    Also, regardless of the battery level (except straight off the charger) the car will struggle, but with an extra few amps via the charger or a jumpstarter, it works fine.

    Let me know if you have any luck.
     

    Street Build 99  1

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 635  9

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM
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    Mham2k likes this.
  5. TSiAWD666

    TSiAWD666 Supporting Vendor

    2,595
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    Joined Aug 15, 2003
    Herndon, Virginia
    My bet is corroded battery cables. The explanation as I've read is that with corrosion the resistance goes up greatly with heat, and as you drive the cables get hot enough that not enough current can pass through to the starter. I had the same symptoms as you and they were solved when I completely redid all my battery and starter wiring .
     

    Road Race Build 16K  16  371

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    377 whp · 416 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  6. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    2,325
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    Hoover, Alabama
    Good point @TSiAWD666

    I like to use the drill and wire brush on my cables and studs on the battery once every couple of months. I go ahead and add water to it while I'm at it.

    Inspect the wires^
     

    Road Race Build 4K  10  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    72  6

    1998 Ford Mustang GT
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  7. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    3,573
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    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    Fuel Pressure Solenoid
    It raises fuel pressure on hot restarts by venting the FPR vac line to atmosphere.

    Try pulling off the vac line to the FPR the next time you have trouble. If it fires right up, you know that the solenoid is not functioning properly.
     

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    2K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  8. Mham2k

    Mham2k Proven Member

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    Dallas, Texas
    This is almost exactly what is happening to me except charging my battery does nothing because it is already 100%. I tried jumpering instead of using the relay behind the radio but the same things happens. So its not the relay.

    Interesting, my battery terminals are new but the wiring is as old as the car. The person I bought the car from relocated the battery to the back. Are you saying rerun the wires from the battery up to the front block?

    Don't understand this completely, how would the fuel pressure solenoid cause the motor to turn slower? If this was the issue it seems that the motor would turn fine but take forever to start. Am I wrong here? I am also using an aftermarket FPR BTW.
     

    Street Build 539  1

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  9. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    3,573
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    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    I guess I missed where you said that it cranks really slowly.
    In that case, it's probably not the solenoid. I'd be inclined to agree with an issue with the battery or cables. Take it to a parts store and get them to load test it with the portable battery tester. See what kind of amps it provides under cranking load.
     

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    2K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  10. Mham2k

    Mham2k Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 8, 2008
    Dallas, Texas
    Got it thanks! I will try replacing the wiring.

    I will probably first check to ensure the ground is good, then go from there.
     

    Street Build 539  1

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  11. wrencher

    wrencher Proven Member

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    Chicago, Illinois
    You can check the cables and connections with voltage drop tests.
    Voltage drop testing done to the circuit while the problem is occurring will identify a poor cable, terminal or connection issue.
    So hot and starter cranking the engine over. Probably be best to disable it from starting and obviously a 2 person procedure to make it easier.

    But you can test negative pretty easily. Negative battery terminal to starter bolt/trans/block ( they should all be the same while cranking.

    .5 volt DC allowed spec I don't like to see over .3
    High current draw will also affect this ( voltage drop) number, it increases with amperage draw of the circuit.
    Positive cable from battery to starter solenoid terminal voltage drop is a tough one.
    The volt drop observed on the positive test should match the reading obtained testing the negative relatively closely.
    There is plenty of stuff out there to describe a voltage drop testing more in depth.....
    Amperage draw would be nice to know as well, but more expensive equipment needed to do testing circuit undisturbed.

    Few things that can cause a high amp draw hot is mechanical & or timing or obviously the starter itself.
     
    Mham2k likes this.

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