Water/Meth Question

[Mr2god]

Okay, i'm a newb when it comes to water/meth so I have a question. I plan on running it on my new project car that will be being built over the winter and I would like to try out a super budget kit on my daily driver before I decide if I like want to do it or not. My question is this: is it at all possible to run a custom kit w/ out any kind of tuning device? For example, if I run a dual stage system with two very small nozzles like one at 10 psi and one at 14-15, so it wouldn't come on all at the same time. It seems like it would make sense because at about 12-14 psi I am maxing out my 450's so the meth would just compensate for running out of fuel. I do realize that the computer would be in open loop at WOT and could not compensate for it but I am trying to figure out if it would work at all. Yes I realize this is an extremely cheap way to do it, but like stated its a cheap test for a daily driver. Any comments would be appreciated.

edit: and by the way to keep with the super budget theme this will be using a -20 washer fluid which I understand is usually 49% meth 50% water and 1% dye

 

[PapioGXL]

First off, I would like to say that I run the coolingmist basic kit ($220 shipped), and I love it. I used the 216-360 hp nozzle and it works very well. I have not yet gotten a datalogger, but I will soon, along with a WBO2 I have sitting around. I can run 18-22 psi with no problems ( Stock boost settings, plus boost creep by gear AI activates via boost switch at approx 10psi, but I'm having issues in first in hot weather, so it may be dropped to about 5psi soon. I have a factory ECU and no fuel mods, and am running slightly lean even with this setup, so a 190 is in short order.

I decided to try AI out on my DD while I build my RX-7. My mods are simply freebies + thermal exhaust + K&N + bleed boost controller, nothing fancy. I started with the simple kit, but eventually I would like to eliminate the I/C and place a smaller nozzle in front of my turbo that activates at 1psi. Before that, however, I will switch to distilled water to see the difference as I know almost all aussies run this.

One thing YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO for a daily is overrun the injectors use the AI to compensate. All it would take is one bad link in the system and you can kiss goodbye to your block. Tune to the edge of your system's capabilities, then add AI. If you decide to rely on AI, you need as many fail safes as possible.

Finally, -20 washer fluid is actually more around 36% meth, and -50 is around 70% IIRC. I use a bottle of -20 with a 12oz bottle of HEET (not ISO-HEET) mixed in, this brings it pretty close to 50:50.

 

[Mr2god]

Thank you for the first post on any forum with some first hand experience with a set up similar to the one I am considering. I dont plan on overrunning my system at all. I run about 14psi now on stock fuel w/ the free mods, exhaust, and boost controller, w/ real boost gauge of course. I run that 14psi right now on a fairly hot day with practically no knock. I dont plan on going any higher than 17-18psi seeing as I dont feel like blowing a head gasket so I am not putting my system on the brink of destruction considering I have heard of certain people running 17psi on just stock fuel. I plan on installing a knock light in the cockpit as well so when i'm not datalogging I have some way of monitoring my knock so if it goes crazy I can let off. Again thank you so much for having some first hand experience on almost the exact situation I am considering. If you have any other advice please chime in.

Edit: Oh and thank you for the stats and mix info on the washer fluid

 

[91 Eagle AWD]

This is what I used for my light.
Tap off of wire 105 (orange) with either a 12volt internal resistor LED (available at some Radio Shacks) or use a regular LED with a 470 ohm resistor in series (Do not use regular indicator light bulbs). You must have either the boost control solenoid installed even if you're not using it or solder a 40 ohm resistor in it's place. Whatever you do don't just short the 2 wires together or you can damage the ECU. The LED will not work without either the resistor or boost control solenoid installed.

Operation:

When car is turned on the LED will be ignited for 3-5 seconds. It will flash on and off about 10 times then should remain off. This is completely normal and it's the ecu that is playing with the boost control solenoid.

If the ecu detects excess knock and it wasn't able to reduce it by slightly pulling the ignition timing back a few degrees then the LED will start to flash. This is the ECU closing and opening the boost control solenoid to gently reduce the boost level. If knock is still present the LED will remain lit solid and timing will be pulled further back. If you see this happening it is wise to back off the throttle.

If the LED remains lit solid at all times the ECU thinks that you're using cheap gas. The timing has been pulled back and the ecu is trying to limit boost to 8psi by closing the boost control solenoid. The ecu will eventually reset itself but it's much faster just to reset it. You can reset the ecu by pulling the bottom right hand fuse for 10 seconds (after the ecu has clicked off) http://www.ecanfix.com/~manualcd/index2.htm

 

[Mr2god]

Thanks for the led stuff, but I'm really not going to do that until I can figure out this water/meth ordeal. I have some people saying you can do it, some people saying you'll run lean, some people saying you'll run rich, and some saying you'll hit fuel cut which seems most likely to me.

 

[PapioGXL]

You should be fine as far as fuel cut goes. I have only hit it twice, and both times were in 4th gear accelerating from 50-ish and it cut at 80-ish, a simple lift off the throttle was all I needed and I continued the run to a bit over 100. The primary reason adding AI doesn't affect the fuel cut is because it is added after the MAF, and turbo (another whole topic), Basically acting as a larger intercooler. How cool the charged air is has only a small bearing on cut, and thus singly won't cause it.

Running methanol on a stock system with stock boost will cause it to run rich. This is simple, a stock system runs rich to begin with, and now you are adding fuel to it causing an even more rich condition. If you inject Distilled H2O, you will not have this problem. Running dH2O, you could actually get away with running lower octane fuel and having no knock with a stock system. On my system, it is probably running fairly lean, as I have no fuel mods and am running fairly high boost levels, so the AI helps prevent knock by both cooling and adding fuel.

For more info regarding pre-turbo injection, see this link: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=267&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Its pretty interesting stuff, and as soon as I get a bit of extra cash, I'll try it out. (and I'll probably try for a record on a full-weight 14b knowing me)

 

[420a-t]

Water injection is by far the best mod I've done. I run a 12.5/1 afr and 21-23 degrees of timing on 23 pounds of boost. I ran the windshield washer fluid and it was alright,bbut then I ran straight meth, and holy crap! Meth is the way to go. Once you get a tuning tool, go straight meth, unless you have ungodly cooling issues. Straight meth took away my knock issues, unlike the 50/50 blend. If you don't have a tuning tool, I would get a afc, eprom burning, dsmlink etc. first. I tune my car around meth, so i can use it to the fullest extent. water/meth injection is like a lot of other mods you can do on your car- if they go out, your car motor could blow up. Think of it that way.