[RESOLVED] water/ meth cooling

[waltz]

im looking to add more power to my dsm, and started thinking about a water meth kit, the only problem is i have no idea how it works. so if someone could please tell me how and i would appreciate your opinions on it

 

[Rob10_99]

Water/Methanol Injection FAQ - NASIOC

 

[godfather75]

I got a snow kit and love it. It helped with knock and allowed me to run more timing, pulls like a frieght train when its on.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Well, let me say this right now, Water/Meth in and of itself will not add power to your car. Utilizing it's ability to suppress knock will.

Here we go, You have a tank, that tank is connected with a hose to a pump. That pump is then feeding either a solenoid or a checkvalve. There is a boost activated switch that either turns the pump on when a certain boost level is reached or it opens the solenoid. It all depends on the setup. Water/Meth then runs from the pump through the solenoid/CV to a jet in the IC piping. The jet then sprays a mist of the alcohol/water mix into the intake stream.

What this does for you. It initially cools the intake charge temp down considerably. Then, once inside the combution chamber it will absorb heat energy and slow the combustion process down. Essentially what high octane fuel does, the higher the octane rating the slower the burn rate. This will help aid you in suppressing knock. Therefore, you can turn the boost up higher than you would be able to on only pump gas. You can also, instead of running more boost, you can start to run more timing. Or you can do a combination of both upping boost and upping timing.

Mixture: There are a lot of theories about what mixture of water/alcohol to run in your setup. Everything from straight water, 50/50 water/methanol, 70/30 water/meth, 30/70 water meth, 100% meth, washer fluid, acetone, denatured alcohol, etc..... You name it, people have probably run it. From what I have read, water will absorb more heat in the combustion chamber than alcohol. Alcohol will add more fuel and help raise the effective total octane of the burn as well as cool the intake tract. So, a 50/50 mix is very popular to get both benefits.

Water: if you have enough fuel and just need to suppress knock. Water won't affect your AFR
Alcohol: if you need to suppress knock and need a little extra fuel. Alcohol will affect your AFR

I run a Devil's Own Stage 1 kit with two jets. An M3 before the BOV in the UICP and an M7 in the TBE. My mixture is 100% methanol, but I've run everything from 100% water, washer fluid, to 100% meth. I run my Small 16g @ 25-27psi with 20* of max timing on a daily basis. What can I say? I LOVE METH!!

Hope this helps.

 

[mindset]

ProjectGS:
Lets say if my mods consisted of:
Punishment FMIC
GMMAF
Link v3
Walbro 255
Shep Stage 2 or 3 trans
act 2600 clutch.

...once I get all of this I want to run meth. Do you recommend it? At what boost level would I set it at?
I still have more research to do but I'm interested in running meth.

 

[waltz]

hey thanks guys it helped alot

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

ProjectGS:
Lets say if my mods consisted of:
Punishment FMIC
GMMAF
Link v3
Walbro 255
Shep Stage 2 or 3 trans
act 2600 clutch.

...once I get all of this I want to run meth. Do you recommend it? At what boost level would I set it at?
I still have more research to do but I'm interested in running meth.

Of course I recommend it. Even though you can retard the timing to control knock with link, you still can only go so far on pump gas alone. When you start getting knock at 21 psi and 10* timing then you know you need some knock suppression. Whether it be race gas, E85 or meth injection.

I'd start off my setting your target boost pressure. My boost pressure is 25-27psi. Then set the meth to start spraying @ roughly half your target boost pressure. So, mine comes on at about 12psi. But, then you have to factor in time for the pump to start pumping and getting the fluid to the jet. It probably makes it into the intake by the time 15psi is built up.

If it comes on too early you'll end up bogging the engine. (which I've never had a problem with) Too late and you miss the benefits it cooling the intake tract before the target boost pressure is reached.

 

[mindset]

Of course I recommend it. Even though you can retard the timing to control knock with link, you still can only go so far on pump gas alone. When you start getting knock at 21 psi and 10* timing then you know you need some knock suppression. Whether it be race gas, E85 or meth injection.

I'd start off my setting your target boost pressure. My boost pressure is 25-27psi. Then set the meth to start spraying @ roughly half your target boost pressure. So, mine comes on at about 12psi. But, then you have to factor in time for the pump to start pumping and getting the fluid to the jet. It probably makes it into the intake by the time 15psi is built up.

If it comes on too early you'll end up bogging the engine. (which I've never had a problem with) Too late and you miss the benefits it cooling the intake tract before the target boost pressure is reached.

Ok. But I still don't understand. Will I need to change out the Headstuds so I can avoid the stock ones stretching? I'm confused because the meth cools down intake temps, therefore a smaller pressure of air. At full boost (25-27) is the cylinder experiencing a true 25 psi with meth or a 13 psi "cooled" down of pressure? Understand what I'm trying to ask? Because I don't want to blow my HG and stretch my studs.

Thanks.

Edit: PM me or continue this I don't care because this thread has a lot of answered questions for other people to see.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

While the meth does cool the air temps down and to some degree might make the air charge more dense. Your cylinders are still seeing the pressures of 25psi. Its just that your less likely to knock. So, you can get away with running that boost pressure safely on pump gas. I still recommend aftermarket head studs To anyone running more than about 20psi.

The real benefit of water/meth is it's knock suppression capabilities. So, what you would normally be able to get away with on Race gas, you can do on pump gas with water/meth. This doesn't change the fact that you'll have high cylinder pressures at high boost. It just helps control the knock so that it doesn't blow apart the engine.