Vavle spring q's, built 6-bolt head....

[Mackzero]

I have a 6-bolt head with freshly done 1mm oversized valves and 5-angle valve job. I am doing the porting and flow benching it also. My question is: Should I scrap the factory springs and retainers and go with the upgraded ones for around $300.00 from SBRacing? I allready have the new revised lifters for it also. I will eventually run upgraded cams so I figure I should while the head is out of the car. My HP goals are around 450 wheel when I am done. Please give me some of you recommendations for what springs and retainers to use. Thanks!

Scott

 

[yo2001]

depends on the cams I think. I personally went with Crower Ti Retainers and springs since it was cheap. Running Crower camx with same profile as 264 And I like to over build stuff

 

[Mackzero]

How much $$$ did it set you back if you don't mind me asking, and where did you buy them? Thanks.

 

[yo2001]

$200

it was on group buy at here

http://www.carshopinc.com/index.php/cPath/65_66

looks like the price went up a little though

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Stock shit is fine to 8500 for sure, and alot of people go to 9. I go to 9 on hks 272's on a stock head.

 

[markgholland]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Stock shit is fine to 8500 for sure, and alot of people go to 9. I go to 9 on hks 272's on a stock head.

Rephrase that for the safety of his pistons... Stocks are good to 8500 when bran new, not after 136k or whatever you have on your stock head.

Just spend the money and get the crowers...
~Mark

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by markgholland
Rephrase that for the safety of his pistons... Stocks are good to 8500 when bran new, not after 136k or whatever you have on your stock head.

Just spend the money and get the crowers...
~Mark

My head has 233 thousand on it, I go to at LEAST 8 and 9 in first and second every pass every other week.

 

[markgholland]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
My head has 233 thousand on it, I go to at LEAST 8 and 9 in first and second every pass every other week.

Well, I can't wait until I see a thread that you start that says, "I think I reved my car too high, too many times."
~Mark

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by markgholland
Well, I can't wait until I see a thread that you start that says, "I think I reved my car too high, too many times."
~Mark

That will be the day, btu Scot Grey has been doing it for 2 years, so iot might be quite a ways off, eh?

 

[Mackzero]

That is reassuring that the stock ones will rev that high, of course, it would be hard to tell when you are starting to "float" the valves.... I am sure they can do it, but if my valves float and I mess something up, I guess I might be pretty pissed I didn't do the springs/retainers.... Thanks for the input though.

Anyone know a place to get the springs and retainers for a great deal??

 

[Mackzero]

It looks like I can get Crowers spring/retainer set from Summit for $253.39 That is a good price is it not? Let me know. Later.

Scott

 

[markgholland]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
That will be the day, btu Scot Grey has been doing it for 2 years, so iot might be quite a ways off, eh?

I hope you don't give that kind of advice to everyone. That is possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Not to mention that about 90% of dsms don't need to be reved over 8k rpms.
~Mark

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Of course not most dsm's don't need to rev as high as I do, But I don't see where I gave any advice, except to mention the tested practical limits of the stock valve springs. Do you have any real contrary evidence? Every time I have seen a valve spring related accident it was a broken aftermarket spring, generally made by Web.

 

[markgholland]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Stock shit is fine to 8500 for sure, and alot of people go to 9. I go to 9 on hks 272's on a stock head.

Sounds like advice to me Dropping names isn't exactly a valid arguement when "testing practical limits." Just because your best friend's uncle who banged some girl who used to date this guy that did it, it doesn't make it a solid proof that it can be done often.

He asked for advice on if he should get rid of the stock springs and get aftermarket ones. He has a fully ported head, 1mm oversized valves and will eventually do larger cams... Why would he NOT put $300 more into it and have a fully built head? Would it make sense to not do it now, and them remove the head when he does cams so he can put better springs in? No, not at all.

I do have experience with a car that floated the valves. I just rebuit a car that some stupid kid thought that he could rev it up to 8500 rpms with stock springs and bent all eight intake valves. Just think, that motor only had 89k on it

Scott, that is a good price on those springs; it's worth the extra money.
~Mark

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

A DSM bent all 8 intake valves revving to 8500?

You make it sound like I am posting some sort of hear-say. I run mid 11's and do it all day long, Scot Runs mid 11's and does it all day long and he road races it...Most of my friends do it all the time on big cam's.

I could imagine it mattering more for him due to heavier valves, but have no emprical data as to whether they are heavier and by how much.

 

[Mackzero]

Looks like I am going to get the crower spring/retainer set. Better safe than sorry I say. I don't want to be taking this apart after I put 272s in it later..... Thanks guys!

Anyone know anything about doing individual coils on our setup? I want to run the individual coil packs from MSD instead of the stock one. Thanks.

Scott

 

[EVT_Chris]

A DSM bent all 8 intake valves revving to 8500?

You make it sound like I am posting some sort of hear-say. I run mid 11's and do it all day long, Scot Runs mid 11's and does it all day long and he road races it...Most of my friends do it all the time on big cam's.

I could imagine it mattering more for him due to heavier valves, but have no emprical data as to whether they are heavier and by how much.

Is that why your profile says "11.999 @ 11.999"? Didn't realize that meant mid 11s all day. The truth is, the stock head will NOT rev consistently over 8k, especially with modified lift and duration from larger cams such as the 272's. Not only that, but the stock AWD tranny won't last long revving past 7800k unless its a trailer queen. Stop giving out poor advice. I drive a 92 Laser with a ported and gasket-matched head, stock valves and springs, and reed custom grind cams similar to 272's. I won't ever rev my car past 7800, and only that high because of the power band resulting from the cams. Stiff springs are a good idea regardless, they'll tighten up the motor and make it easier to go bigger later. I only wish I had thrown a set in!

As far as new ignition coils, MSD makes a pair of motorcycle racing coils that will produce an immense spark, and for only $70 for the pair. But in my opinion, its a waste of money. Ever look under the hood of Curt Brown's car? Stock coils...

-Chris

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Ok, saying I run mid 11's all day long is an exagerattion, but I do run 11.7's, and I do rev over 8k on my car at least once a day. To 9k often enough to not think twice about it if I choose to do it, but the car doesn't pull well above 8500 anyways.

The stock DSM Trasns won't last forever running 11's neways, but shifting at high rpms is only one concern among many in that department....and as long as your synchros are fine and your clutch is properly adjusted, 8k+ shifts aren't going to bother it

You guys both say Im giving out poor advice, but all I see is no proof and lots of talk backing it up.

 

[blue1]

Something to think about? the reving doesn't seem to be much of a problem with the DSM's but a calculation that must be factored in with BOOST not rev's. Seat pressure of the valve spring at installed height Minus the total area of the back of the inlet valve mutiplied by the amount of boost in psi, now take that away from your seat pressure what are you left with. Eg: if the area of the back of the valve is say 2square inch's, at 20 psi boost you have just lost 40psi off your spring pressure = valve float. these are just off the cuff figures but thats how it works!

 

[pneumo]

Eg: if the area of the back of the valve is say 2square inch's, at 20 psi boost you have just lost 40psi off your spring pressure = valve float. these are just off the cuff figures but thats how it works!

Um, no that's not how it works. You talk as if the other side of the valve has zero pressure, it doesn't.


Valve float doesn't automatically mean the pistons will bash the valves into scrap metal. There is some clearance between the piston and the valve, so the valve can float slightly without hitting the piston.

 

[Mackzero]

I did end up purchasing the Crower spring set from RRE. I will be assembling the head this week, so we will see how she runs.... Thanks guys.

 

[set3422]

Stock ones are pretty good stuff. Just make sure the spring doesn't dip below 1.7" at free length. I think the original spec is 1.87" but just check on the manual to make sure. The protrusion shouldn't be 5 deg out of squareness. If you want to, just double stack the valve shims (top one has to be grinded off flat and with bigger inner diameter) for higher lift cams. Good luck.

I have a 6-bolt head with freshly done 1mm oversized valves and 5-angle valve job. I am doing the porting and flow benching it also. My question is: Should I scrap the factory springs and retainers and go with the upgraded ones for around $300.00 from SBRacing? I allready have the new revised lifters for it also. I will eventually run upgraded cams so I figure I should while the head is out of the car. My HP goals are around 450 wheel when I am done. Please give me some of you recommendations for what springs and retainers to use. Thanks!

Scott

 

[DCJ98GST]

Are there any losses when upgrading to stiffer springs. Like more resistance to cranking due to the spring resistance? It would make sense. Any thoughts?

 

[pneumo]

Are there any losses when upgrading to stiffer springs. Like more resistance to cranking due to the spring resistance? It would make sense. Any thoughts?

The energy required to compress the spring will be returned when the valve is closing and the spring pushes back against the cam.

 

[1LE]

I only run 8k rpms, but use HKS valve springs. Heard of a few too many problems at the 7500-7800rpm range on stockers (after they're a couple years old, and especially with HKS cams).