Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[DSM1G90]

I've driven a tonnage of 4cyl 4 and 5 spd cars in my lifetime, some with hydraulic clutches and others with cable drawn clutches.

And with DSM's and their hydraulic clutches, these seem to have their own personalities in how they operate.

This is my 2nd DSM and as with my first one, the clutch operation is just different than I'm used to with other hydraulic vehicles that I've driven.

What I'm getting at is it seems that the engagement is more on the upper end of the pedal travel than with other vehicles were the release was at the lower end of the travel.

Being on the upper end and it has a shorter engagment time, I struggle at times, at a complete stop, to have a smooth takeoff at a decent RPM to save wear on the friction disc pressure plate and flywheel.

If I release too soon, I kill the motor since I didn't meet the RPM's to match my release time. Opposite if I release too slow, I'm getting the revs up to get the vehicle in motion, yet in the meantime I know that I'm putting excessive wear on the clutch assembly.

I thought about adjusting the ram on the master cylinder to let me have that lower release, but just wondering on the throwout bearing and other components associated inside the clutch mechanism.

I can make clutches last forever since I don't ride the clutch pedal betwen shift points, don't jackrabbit off the start line and other excessive clutch wearing factors. Just need some ideas on how to get my gas and clutch equasion back to balance.

thxx-DSM

 

[luv2rallye]

For enlightenment on the dsm clutch adjustment watch Proper Clutch Adjustment here: Transmission Videos

 

[DSM1G90]

Thx a bunch for the link! Did help muchly. It looks like what I'm experencing is how the entire assembly is to operate and I just need to work with my shifting habits some more.

-DSM

 

[95jdmgst]

dam finally the site where i found my gear ratio off of my evo III tranny i told my friends i could hit 200mph in 5th

 

[IMOKIFUR]

+1 New master cyls must be bled.

- Take the line off at the Mstr Cyl
- Fill the resivior with fluid
- Press your thumb over the hole where you took off the line
- Have someone pump the pedal(2 man operation if installed)
- you should feel pressure on your thumb (fluid may leak out)
- release the pressure & repeat (you may have to do this a few times to get all air out)
- you know its good when you press the pedal and see a steady stream of fluid

 

[jrohner]

Are you sure the rod from the master to the pedal adjusted half way decent? If you have it adjusted up too high (rod too long), it probably won't bleed since it's the same as if you aren't letting the pedal up all the way. Adjust the rod shorter so it isn't pushing on the master at all when the pedal is up and then try again.

 

[Lofty]

Alright, I believe my master cylinder is bad.
It's been super cold here -30's......
My clutch keeps getting air in the system, because I bled it after it felt horrible, and there was air in the system, and now it feels horrible again.
Where should I check for leaks?
How can I tell if the Master/slave cylinder is bad?
Thanks.

 

[GSX93DSM]

I usually look for leak inside the firewall next to the clutch pedal. Most of the time it will leak down inside. I would suggest replace both master and slave while you are there. When you buy a clutch master try to get a good quality cause most aftermarkets suck a%#

 

[Lofty]

I usually look for leak inside the firewall next to the clutch pedal. Most of the time it will leak down inside. I would suggest replace both master and slave while you are there. When you buy a clutch master try to get a good quality cause most aftermarkets suck a%#

Okay go OEM, and what if it doesn't have any leaks?

 

[Boost92awd]

This cold of weather is going to make your clutch pedal feel a bit spungy. It going to take alittle bit longer for it to fully engage, when the weather is this cold. Has this been happen for awhile, or has it just been the last 2 days where its been really cold here?

 

[Lofty]

This cold of weather is going to make your clutch pedal feel a bit spungy. It going to take alittle bit longer for it to fully engage, when the weather is this cold. Has this been happen for awhile, or has it just been the last 2 days where its been really cold here?

Well I bled it when it was cold, and it felt really stiff, but now its cold again and spongy.

 

[Boost92awd]

Have you checked for leaks yet? How many miles are on the clutch?

 

[Auto RS T]

Check for leaks under the dash were the clutch pedal rod goes into the clutch master. Then check under the rubber boot on the slave cylinder bolted to the trans, if either are wet, replace them. My personal rule is if I a replacing one, I automatically do the other. Saves headaches later on.

 

[Lofty]

Yes I'm bleeding it the right way, have someone push lightly on the clutch, crack it open, have them push it to the floor, close the banjo bolt, repeat.
The boot it bent up, I can see straight up rod, which is bad, I think.

No leaks though, at all.

 

[Boost92awd]

Are you letting the clutch pedal back up slowly after closing the bleeder screw? If your not this can put air in the system. Are you sure its not the clutch itself that is going bad?

 

[Lofty]

Are you letting the clutch pedal back up slowly after closing the bleeder screw? If your not this can put air in the system. Are you sure its not the clutch itself that is going bad?

Yes and Yes.
Why would a bad clutch be affected by bleeding the system and having air come out of the bleeder screw?

Anyways, I got new Master/slave cylinders to be safe, how difficult is this, Haynes makes everything scary to do.

 

[Boost92awd]

Both arnt to bad to do, unless you run into some rusted bolts that dont want to come out.

 

[Lofty]

Both arnt to bad to do, unless you run into some rusted bolts that dont want to come out.

Okay, thank you for your help good sir.

 

[Defiant]

Yes I'm bleeding it the right way,

Well, no.

have someone push lightly on the clutch, crack it open, have them push it to the floor, close the banjo bolt, repeat.

That's how you bleed brakes. Brakes are operating under enormous pressure. Clutch systems aren't.
The best way to bleed a DSM clutch is with a vacuum. If you don't have a Mity-Vac, you can use something like an old propane, freon or any other disposable pressure tank. Ask at an AC shop, see if they can slip you one.
Mount a fitting up to the tank with a valve on it. Hook tubing from the tank to your intake manifold. Open the valve and let the motor idle for five minutes. Close the valve. You now have a vacuum reservoir that'll easily deal with a clutch system.
Get a glass peanut butter jar, or any other product that has the rubber seal on the underside of the lid. Drill two holes in the lid, and solder in two pieces of brass tubing from the model airplane shop. Get some fuelproof silicone fuel line while you're there. Make one tube end just under the cap, and run the other one down almost to the bottom of the jar.
Pour some brake fluid into the jar, enough to cover the end of the long tube. Hook up your vacuum reservoir to the short tube. Connect the other tube to the bleeder valve. Smear some grease around the boss on the bleeder valve so it can't suck air through the threads. Take the lid off the clutch reservoir and make sure it's topped-up. Open the valve on your vacuum tank, crack open the bleeder and look for bubbles. Use low amounts of opening, you barely want to force the flow of gravity.

You can also bleed the clutch by pressing in on the clutch rod at the slave, crack open the bleeder, close the bleeder and repeat.

A Speedbleeder will make either method easier. But pumping the master will seldom bleed the clutch system.

 

[chel]

I just bought a 98 eclipse gsx 5 spd, has a ACT clutch and light weight flywheel, I was driving it home and after driving for a hour, I was not able to up shift, or down shift, I coasted into a parking, with the clutch pedal down I am not able to get it into any gear. The slave cyl is pushing the clutch fork, and from what I can see all the fingers are intact with the pressure plate. The master cyl and slave cyl are both not leaking, which is making diagnosing this problem even harder. The clutch pedal does not feel right, noticed the pedal was sticking around the fire wall don't understand why when nothing is leaking? I tried adjusting the master cyl push rod (someone had posted a YouTube video on proper adjustment) but in turn just made things worse, the pedal will now go to the fire wall and stay there, I can pump it up and down fast and get the clutch pedal to go hard.....

Any help or input is appreciated

 

[JMiller]

I had a very similar problem with my car, try bleeding the clutch really well(make sure the cap on the reservoir is open when you bleed it), then if that doesn't work try letting the car sit overnight with a piece of cardboard under (just to make sure its not leaking). If you can pull the transmission out and check the clutch, cause my was sticking to the floor right before my clutch started slipping.

 

[chel]

I am sure its not crankwalk it has a 6bolt swapped into it with 40,000k on it, I am going bleed the clutch when it warms up, its -15, really hard to work in weather like this . I find it weird to have a problem like this as your driving it. What are the possibility of the master cyl bypassing fluid?

 

[Butterfinger]

Your problem is simple it just has a small leak that you can't see. I was looking for the link on bleeding by yourself but could not find it.
Jack your car up secure it so that your comfortable engage the slave by pushing the rod with one hand and hold it there's no need to pump loosen the bleeder with a 10mm wrench and then tighten before releasing the rod and repeat. keeping an eye on fluid level. don't let it drop too low.

 

[JMiller]

If you have a leak its not going to stop leaking just because your driving. Do all the small checks first like checking the master cylinder to make sure its filled up, check that rubber hose on the MC to make sure its secure, things like that. Then when it warms up bleed the clutch really well then take it for a drive and see how it is.

 

[DIMONDSTAR77]

well went to start my tsi and just bumped the clutch pedal, and it went to the floor. drove the day before had no problems what so ever. checked for fluid and empty, checked for leaks inside and out of the car, and not seeing any. put more fluid in the system and tryed to pump the pedal but still falls to the floor.i know its most likely the master cylinder, and buy the sounds of it this happens alot on the 2GA Gs-T and TSi fwd models. any help would be awesome