Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Keep this thread updated. I have a similar problem that you do. So far the only difference is that adjusting the upper stop didn't solve the problem in the end.

 

[kingjust]

What's up fellas, well this is an easy fix. I've gone through this many a times. The problem is that your master cylinder for your clutch has a point in the shaft that hooks to the clutch pedal where if it's too far deep into the master cylinder, after a couple of pumps it get's stiffer. Basically it's build up. What you need to do is turn it counter clock wise until there is gobs of free play (I think the specs are 1/4-1/2 inch play). You start turning the shaft clock wise, the checking the free play, turning it clock wise, checking for free play, etc. etc. You will get to a point where it gets hard to turn clock wise... that is the point where the shaft should be. Take the car out for a drive to check if there isn't any build up. If there is, turn the shaft counter clockwise (you will feel like a pressure release), and repeat. If there isn't and there is a little to much play, well you know the rest.

That should solve your pump up/build up issue with your master cylinder.

KJ

 

[DeNoZZo]

What's up fellas, well this is an easy fix. I've gone through this many a times. The problem is that your master cylinder for your clutch has a point in the shaft that hooks to the clutch pedal where if it's too far deep into the master cylinder, after a couple of pumps it get's stiffer. Basically it's build up. What you need to do is turn it counter clock wise until there is gobs of free play (I think the specs are 1/4-1/2 inch play). You start turning the shaft clock wise, the checking the free play, turning it clock wise, checking for free play, etc. etc. You will get to a point where it gets hard to turn clock wise... that is the point where the shaft should be. Take the car out for a drive to check if there isn't any build up. If there is, turn the shaft counter clockwise (you will feel like a pressure release), and repeat. If there isn't and there is a little to much play, well you know the rest.

That should solve your pump up/build up issue with your master cylinder.

KJ

I don't quite understand what you mean by free play? But I have adjusted the rod so my clutch engages about 1 1/2-2 inches off the floor if thats what your talking about.

 

[NExStreetRacer]

When you opened the bleeder valve did fluid shoot out or just run out. Check for kinks in the lines and make sure the resivior stays full while bleeding.

It just ran out it did not shoot out...so I put the car in gear while it was off. Put it into first gear and pressed the clutch and went to start the car and the starter made the car move forward in first gear I didn’t even have to start the car, to get it to move. So anyways I bought a slave cylinder I already have new master cylinder so I have to install the slave cylinder still. maybe that was the problem.

 

[Kyromoto]

dang dude we both have really bad luck with DSMS. but i still love em. so far no ones really been able to help me. my car is just retarded but im grateful it atleast drives even though its hard to drive and itll burn my cluth eventually but i wish you luck man. get those beautiful cars running!

 

[NExStreetRacer]

Well I bought everything put everything on even brand new lines and it still will not go into gear when I try to put in first it dose nothing but the RPM will drop and then I tried reverse and it grinded I don’t know what’s wrong air in the lines? I assume that all gears grind except first gear and the clutch pedal still feels squishy. I bleed the lines and did that entire BS correctly anyone have any clue what could be causing it to not go into gear?

 

[92ts1]

Ok lets start over the car I bought is a 1990 Plymouth Laser RS 2.0 turbo FWD 5 speed. The car ran perfectly fine when I bought it but my friend is a dumbest and I had him drive it to my house because I had to drive my grandmas car to pick the car up anyway before I even moved the car I changed the rims, new spark plugs + wires, K&N air filter, fuel filter, Thermostat, Clutch mater cylinder, oil change and filter, coolant and the car did not have an idle screw I am not sure how long is was driven plugged up...The cars problems it had when bought as he said was the clutch wouldn’t disengage on top of that he obviously beat the hell out of the transmission and burns oil, The rotors and brakes and calipers are crap, The problems I found out – A wire to the oil sending unit was not attached I have no idea how long it was like that for. There was parts of an old timing belt shredded up in there so I pulled it out so I guess the timing belt is good I am not sure what happened to the old shredded belt but I noticed when I rev the engine the timing belt well tighten and loosen in addition to that the car will rev fine until 5 grand and go no further the idle is off (timing most likely needs done?) and lastly it has a header leak which I am getting too…I own about six DSM’s!!!!!!!!!!!!! non of which run I must be a peace of shit or maybe you guys just aren’t helping me enough I thought I could do it on my own I have gotten far though…anyways on the journey home he blew the clutch up entirely we pulled into Wal-Mart bought a tow strap we walked out the front doors and smelled clutch and then it began to rain this is the fast version story. I have a curse that doesn’t want me to drive dsm’s anyways I got it home and this is what I did…I did not change the shifter cable what I changed was the transmission and clutch – (1990 Eagle talon 2.0 Turbo FWD 5 speed). I left the flywheel and pressure plate because they looked brand new other then the one snapped off bolt to the pressure plate. I bought a new Throw out bearing, transmission seals, new transmission fluid and my friend installed the bearing in the transmission he had done it twice to his car I am not sure if it was done right…anyways I lined the clutch up right and everything was bolted on shifter cables attached to the gear selectors on the transmission. I am not sure I did this step by step maybe I missed a step or something but I put the transmission fluid till full. Tried to put it into gear the clutch pedal did not have very much pressure also the shifter is not nearly as stiff as it feels on my other cars anyway pushed clutch in start car let off clutch put clutch in first gear little gas slowly let of clutch and nothing it sat as if in neutral however when I used a little more force on shifter (push further forward into first) it started to slowly coast forward but only when I applied force if I let of the shifter it would once again stop SO SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!! I don’t think I can explain this any better at all what I need is to get this car to go into gear and run fine so I don’t have to walk 30 minutes to work every single day it really is killing me not drive for almost 3 years especially with gas thanks….

JEFF

PS: The mechanics tell me air in the line or the clutch pedal needs adjusted (The new clutch master cylinder I only tightened that bolt a little bit because of the very difficult area of room to work with). Someone please give me detailed information on what needs done to make it least one of my closest running cars ready to go onto the open road. Also the car starts right up and when at normal temperature it runs at 1 G RPM although I have yet to fix the manifold leak and timing and idle screw adjustment…I am about to buy an AWD so I have no money for a mechanic to look at it until I buy this other car that dose not run

I take it that wou actually had the clutch out of the car according to the above. When you had it our did you notice anything strange other then the bolt? My AWD did the same thing and what it was, I broke one of the springs in the friction disc and it wouldn't allow the pressure plate to colapse.

Here is a little hint. For proper clutch adjustment goto jackstransmissions.com . If you have access to a decently sized pry bar, jack the front of the car up since it is FWD, have a buddy in the car, with the car running use the prybar and try to move the clutch for further, if it does not move you have internal clutch problems, if it does there is a possibility that the stock rubber line is expanding, defective master. (I work in a shop and we get defective master and slave cylinders on a weekly basis.)

 

[1badgvr4]

Just put on a new master cyl and slave and now I cant bleed the system.I cant get any pressure to bleed the system.I also tried to use the speed bleeder and that didn't work either.

 

[Butterfinger]

Hey it take's a little bit to get these bled did you bleed your master cyl. first

 

[1badgvr4]

How to bleed the master cyl?

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

My clutch, just today, has been acting weird and idk what to make of it. Everything is "sealed", i have no leaks anywhere, but for some reason my clutch engagement has been, for lack of a better term, all over the place. It was in the middle, perfect, until today when i did a 1-2-3 pull and now its at the top. I came to a stop shortly after and it was back in the middle...a little farther down than it was before.
Now its back to where it originally was :wtf:

Could this be a symptom of a bad slave? I did buy it used and whatnot but it seems if my engagement comes up any higher the clutch is going to start to slip.

Mods in profile, however i dont think its relevant.

 

[wont_luz]

Are you still running the stock rubber clutch line? If so it may be expanding under pressure, try a stainless braided clutch line. Did the trick for me.

 

[srtcrazy]

Hey I've done a lot of reading through the forum on this topic and I haven't quite put everything together yet, so I'm going to be as specific as possible.

I just replaced both the master and slave cylinders, as well as adding a SS clutch line from RRE. I used the Valvoline DOT3/4 Synthetic fluid when bleeding through the new fluid.

My problem now is that the pedal gets sticky at the floor after I drive it a bit and I see a small amount of fluid leaking out of the firewall. Also, the fluid is turning a blackish color. Should I use the synthetic fluid in a fresh clutch system? Or is the new master just a bad apple?

 

[CJTurbo]

It sounds like the seal on the master is bad. Are you sure there wasn't any fluid there before? I don't know why it would stick though.
Good luck

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

shouldda specified i do have the stainless line :<

 

[srtcrazy]

Yes. The CS360007 and CM350086 Dorman line.

 

[92talontsibryce]

um.... my car is doing this also. i press in the clutch to put it in first gear then when i release the clutch it will only come up a inch but fully engages. but i think i just need to adjust my clutch pedal. good luck

 

[gorf]

do some searches - maybe time for that 6 bolt

from another thread:
crankwalk....been there before well you can try a simple test to see if it really is the dreaded crankwalk. take your car to an empty parking lot, turn the wheel pretty much all the way to the left and start driving in left hand circles,(not fast but a moderate speed, put the car in netural and (as you're still going in circles at a steady speed) pump the clutch in and out several times. If you're foot beats the clutch back to the top thats not a good sign, when the cars crankwalking depending on far along the evil process is the clutch will feel like its sticking. Like stated above there is really nothing you can do to when the cars crankwalking. Be sure it is actually crankwalk tho. The other check for it is at the crank pulley. But check everything 1st, what is the clutch problem you're having?

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

im about to go to a parking lot
brb

 

[srtcrazy]

I've adjusted the master many times; the problem still occurs. The pedal height is as far up as it will go with the sensor in check.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

Slow left turns for about a minute, 3-4500rpm 1st gear, pumped the clutch in neutral and the clutch pedal popped up as fast as my foot...and i have ninja speed with my appendages! >.<

Followed by some donuts, still no sticking, although this time, i didnt notice any variation in the clutch engagement....my car's retarded

 

[tjbiker031]

ok i know this sounds stupid but humor me. have you made sure that all of your connections are 110% tightened down and no cracks or holes in the lines. i had a simular problem and turned out to be that i had fluid leaking out from a connection and a crack in the hard line.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

wow thanks

That pretty much explained, to a T, what im experiencing right now...normal in the morning, longer i drive the more sporadic it becomes.

 

[Dsmj89]

x2 For the guy above. Check and inspect any ripped,cracked, leaking hoses. You didn't mention if the slave and master were oem spec or auto parts items ? I heard these can fail quite easily.

 

[srtcrazy]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm going to check the lines and seals tomorrow. Does anyone know if the synthetic DOT fluid is okay?