Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[sag1441]

if you have a floormat in you can take that out to ease it a little bit until you get it worked out

 

[Dream On]

Did you resurface your old flywheel? If not, then it's either that or your pedal assembly.

 

[rhohan72]

Did you resurface your old flywheel? If not, then it's either that or your pedal assembly.

Yea, i had it machined. Mother (*&^. [chanting] i love you dsm i love you dsm [chanting]

freakin car. alright. well, looks like i'm replacing a clutch pedal assembly.

update: k, pulled the clutch pedal assembly. only took 1.5 hours. have to order the part now. stupid ca- er , love you dsm!

 

[rhohan72]

Alright, it has been a bit, but i got the new clutch pedal assembly in the car. The car still not go into gear.

One thing that i did notice, is that when i screw in the bracket on the clutch pedal assembly into the rod on the master cylinder, it doesn't engage, however, when i take it all the way off, and just leave it touching, so it has maybe 3 more mm's of throw distance, it will go in enough to get 1-4 in, but not 5 and reverse. I am wondering if i have a problem with the bracket length. now, on some pictures i have see of the clutch master cylinder, there is a round thing on the end of the rod, and then the bracket that goes on the pedal assembly. on mine, there is no bracket.

here is a pic with i off, which is what mine looks like: http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/thumb/I300043724TOK.JPG
and here is a pic of what the "stock" one should look like? (according to autozone anyways): http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/jpg/small/0900823d801ccb1d.jpg

Now, i put my n/a clutch master in my awd car. mitsu dealership says there is no difference in the part number between n/a and awd.

Do i need that little extension thing?

I was thinking about taking the u shaped bracket that connects the pedal assembly to the master cylinder rod down to a machine shop, and having them make me a longer one. would that work?

 

[rhohan72]

bump? any imput on this?

 

[boostnhard]

im scared to to post this but.....PEDAL ASSEMBLY

 

[Dream On]

Mine looks like the first picture. I don't think that Autozone one is correct for our cars. Just look at the stud on it...But did you recheck the flywheel step before installing it? Did you weld the pedal assembly properly? How tight did you tighten the pressure plate bolts?

 

[rhohan72]

I didn't weld the pedal assembly, I just got another one. There isn't any play on the pedal anymore, i can't pull it up after pushing it down, and letting it return.

I did have the flywheel remachined to what is it .610.

I tightened the pressure plate bolts down to spec, which is like 14lbs.

 

[shaneyeend]

So this is some weird shit. When i press my clutch in it feels exactly like there is no fluid in it. the only pressure i get from the pedal is the spring thats in the car . i thought it just needed to be bled so i did that several times it kinda help then got worse. i took it to a shop ### i am totally stumped, and they told me its my clutch, i think thats a bunch of shit, its a brand new spec stage 4 clutch that has seen at the max of a 200hp launch, no way have i fried it. And it doesn't feel like a dead clutch it really feels like when you push it in absolutely nothing happens. any ideas?

 

[Shadow98]

Sounds to me like it's you master cylinder.

 

[shaneyeend]

thats kinda what i was thinkin like an air lock or something.

 

[greenmeanie99]

I just replaced my master cylinder and its doing the same thing. I bled the cylinder before I installed it, then I tightened everything up and there was still no pressure. Should I take the line off and bleed it some more?

 

[95 'clipse RS]

have you tried to have someone else push the clutch and look at the slave cylinder to see if the plunger is even moving? that should give you an idea to whether its the cylinders, lines, etc., or the PP or something to do with the actual clutch assembly. id say use process of elimination in this case to find the culprit. hope this helps

 

[Project2G]

I am going through the same thing right now. I replaced my slave cylinder and I'm about to do my master cylinder on Sunday.

 

[NExStreetRacer]

Car runs but won't go into gear!! AKA it doesn't move...I took the junk transmission off bought new throw out bearing, clutch master cylinder, oil seals for the used 5 speed transmission from a 90 talon turbo along with the clutch and pressure plate installed the CORRECT way. Put transmission fluid to level everything is bolted up right my friend put on the throw out bearing and the clip I don't know if he did it right but here are the symptoms. I press the clutch start the car let off the clutch press clutch down to floor put gear selector into 1st 2nd or w/e the rpm and everything drop like its about to go into gear but nothing happens even when I let of the clucth but it hesitates I guess you could say and I am to afraid to shove it into gear the clutch pedal doesn't have very much pressure I am not sure what the issue is I bleed it for a very long time. If anyone could give me some useful information I will shoot myself if I have to take that transmission off again.

And when I rev the RPM you can see the timing belt loosen and tighten maybe the timing belt automatic tension is bad? I found chunks of an old timing belt so the one on the car was once replaced...any help would be appreciated.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

If you are losing brake fluid from your clutch system, you just need to replace the leaky part. ie: clutch slave, clutch master, line, hose. If you aren't leaking you need to make sure it's bled correctly. Have someone push the clutch and hold it down. While they hold it, open the bleeder, and close it, then have them release the pedal. Repeat this process until you get a bubble free stream of fluid each time you open the slave bleeder. Make sure you keep the reservoir full during this process. If the fluid level drops too low, all your effort bleeding will be undone. If your clutch is asembled correctly, and your pressure plate is good, you should have a nice springy pedal when you finish, and you shouldn't have had to remove the trans or clutch for any reason.

 

[brian9397gsx]

i agree also can you put it into gear after the motor is off if so try re bleeding

 

[NExStreetRacer]

I did bleed the lines for an hour and a half the pressure on the pedal went up but it is no where near the normal pressure so we kept going but bleeding the line again and again still didn’t make the clutch pedal any more springy my brothers a mechanic and me and him did it. We talked to another mechanic and he said try using a sucker or some sort of tool to make sure there is no air in the lines. But I am getting frustrated and was just praying its nothing major

 

[SlickGSX]

1990 transmissions have different shifter cable brackets which could be the problem.

 

[NExStreetRacer]

1990 transmissions have different shifter cable brackets which could be the problem.

That is a very good idea ill have to figure it out

 

[NExStreetRacer]

Ok lets start over the car I bought is a 1990 Plymouth Laser RS 2.0 turbo FWD 5 speed. The car ran perfectly fine when I bought it but my friend is a dumbest and I had him drive it to my house because I had to drive my grandmas car to pick the car up anyway before I even moved the car I changed the rims, new spark plugs + wires, K&N air filter, fuel filter, Thermostat, Clutch mater cylinder, oil change and filter, coolant and the car did not have an idle screw I am not sure how long is was driven plugged up...The cars problems it had when bought as he said was the clutch wouldn’t disengage on top of that he obviously beat the hell out of the transmission and burns oil, The rotors and brakes and calipers are crap, The problems I found out – A wire to the oil sending unit was not attached I have no idea how long it was like that for. There was parts of an old timing belt shredded up in there so I pulled it out so I guess the timing belt is good I am not sure what happened to the old shredded belt but I noticed when I rev the engine the timing belt well tighten and loosen in addition to that the car will rev fine until 5 grand and go no further the idle is off (timing most likely needs done?) and lastly it has a header leak which I am getting too…I own about six DSM’s!!!!!!!!!!!!! non of which run I must be a peace of shit or maybe you guys just aren’t helping me enough I thought I could do it on my own I have gotten far though…anyways on the journey home he blew the clutch up entirely we pulled into Wal-Mart bought a tow strap we walked out the front doors and smelled clutch and then it began to rain this is the fast version story. I have a curse that doesn’t want me to drive dsm’s anyways I got it home and this is what I did…I did not change the shifter cable what I changed was the transmission and clutch – (1990 Eagle talon 2.0 Turbo FWD 5 speed). I left the flywheel and pressure plate because they looked brand new other then the one snapped off bolt to the pressure plate. I bought a new Throw out bearing, transmission seals, new transmission fluid and my friend installed the bearing in the transmission he had done it twice to his car I am not sure if it was done right…anyways I lined the clutch up right and everything was bolted on shifter cables attached to the gear selectors on the transmission. I am not sure I did this step by step maybe I missed a step or something but I put the transmission fluid till full. Tried to put it into gear the clutch pedal did not have very much pressure also the shifter is not nearly as stiff as it feels on my other cars anyway pushed clutch in start car let off clutch put clutch in first gear little gas slowly let of clutch and nothing it sat as if in neutral however when I used a little more force on shifter (push further forward into first) it started to slowly coast forward but only when I applied force if I let of the shifter it would once again stop SO SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!! I don’t think I can explain this any better at all what I need is to get this car to go into gear and run fine so I don’t have to walk 30 minutes to work every single day it really is killing me not drive for almost 3 years especially with gas thanks….

JEFF

PS: The mechanics tell me air in the line or the clutch pedal needs adjusted (The new clutch master cylinder I only tightened that bolt a little bit because of the very difficult area of room to work with). Someone please give me detailed information on what needs done to make it least one of my closest running cars ready to go onto the open road. Also the car starts right up and when at normal temperature it runs at 1 G RPM although I have yet to fix the manifold leak and timing and idle screw adjustment…I am about to buy an AWD so I have no money for a mechanic to look at it until I buy this other car that dose not run

 

[luisjo]

OK i actually didn't read the post above but i had the same problem.. or similar, this may help yo so read on.


My clutch system worked perfectly, but i still changed the master cylinder, and my car wont go into gear, so i changed the slave cylinder and still wont go in (bleed it for hours wich is stupid), so the problem i found out that was the bolt behind the pedal that it was too long, so i cut it, then i figured out that i cut it too much, so i got another one and cut it to spec, then it was fixed because it entered into gears but suffered from something that is called PEDAL PUMP UP, anyway my problem was the bolt behind the pedal that was out of adjustment, there is no other explication (that i can think of), so it may be the same problem, try this.... eliminate the switch that makes you depress the clutch pedal all the way before starting the car, put the car in 1st gear (if you can) with the car off, then start it with the clutch pedal all the way to the floor, if it jumps forward or if it does not jumps forward but it feels like the clutch is not disengaging and it smells like burned clutch... then you have my same problem.

 

[aaronspeed]

I myself would verify that the rubber line going to the slave cylinder is not bad and not expanding and taking up all the pressure.

 

[ShawnsGarage]

When you opened the bleeder valve did fluid shoot out or just run out. Check for kinks in the lines and make sure the resivior stays full while bleeding.

 

[DeNoZZo]

I have been having some issues with my clutch lately. After driving the car for a little while (maybe 20 minutes) the clutch engagement point will get higher and higher, while getting more and more stiff. Then, when I push the clutch pedal down, it will feel as though I'm hitting a wall after 6". But I push really hard, I can get it to go all the way down. If I keep driving while this happens, the clutch will eventually just start slipping. I had this exact same problem a few weeks ago, and read on here to try bleeding the clutch. I did that and it worked absolutely flawless until today. Before people just reply and say it's pedal pump, keep in mind that I have adjusted my clutch rod so it engages about 1-2" off the floor. I haven't adjust the upper stopper yet and that is next on my list. But what else could be causing this? I am thinking it might be my slave or master cylinder. But I don't see any leaks around either. The guy that had the car before me put a new oem clutch in and had the flywheel resurfaced too. I don't know what else he did tranny wise. If any body has any input on what could be wrong here, please let me know. I have done a ton of reading on here and vfaq about this and understand it is a somewhat common problem.

**EDIT** I adjusted the upper stop, and now it seems to be working fine. I drove it for about 30 minutes and it didn't have any problems.