2G Clutch Stuck to Floor

[Narish Do Urden]

1996 Eagle Talon TSI AWD

Did a lot of searching came up with forums of problems most likely resolved by replacement of the Clutch Slave and Master Cyl.

I can't really identify the issue. My clutch when I push it down slowly will pull itself to the floor at a certain point maybe half way. And I have to pull it up with my hand as it doesn't just spring back until about half way also.

I looked to see if the Slave cyl is leaking, it isn't.
I checked the Master Cyl, it was empty and I filled it to max with Dot 3 Break Fluid, pumped the clutch a few times, still same symptoms.
Rechecked to see if any fluid ON and around master cyl, checked the fluid. Still max.
Checked the Slave still dry.

Trans is a suppose'd Stage 3 built ShepTrans, with a Stage 3 Clutch.
Short Throw Shifter, most likely ebay.

My own opinion is maybe previous owner didn't bleed it properly and the air hit it . I just drove the car yesterday I was just checking today to see if everything was still ok from switching the turbo manifold and such back to stock.

Also wouldn't the car not start unless I engage the clutch? And if it doesn't engage to switch gears when running, how is it starting?

 

[compression]

There is a switch on the clutch pedal that allows the vehicle to start when it is triggered. Regardless of if they clutch is working properly or not it will allow a start if pressed.

If it was empty there is likely air in the lines , just have a buddy pump the clutch while you crack the bleeder loose.

Have him pump it a few times and hold it to the floor , crack the bleeder for a sec , tighten it up, then he can let go of the clutch . The clutch will likely be stuck to the floor after you bleed it but if he pumps it up a few times there should be pressure on the pedal. Repeat this a few times or until you no longer see air come put of the bleeder.

You can unplug the clutch switch and it will start without pressing it in.

 

[Narish Do Urden]

Ahh all right, I guess first step bleed and check it out I'm prayin this is the solution. I've had nothin but problems with this car since day 1, seems like another one arises once one is fixed. I'll edit back I'll prob go out and do it now.

Can't wait until warmer weather when I can take it all apart and fix whatever else was messed with the car.

 

[Quadsportz]

If the master was empty you are pulling air in the line.

 

[compression]

After you bleed the clutch the pedal pressure will return. Why it was empty in the first place may be an issue. Some cars I've had will retain fluid for years.

 

[Narish Do Urden]

Ya got me there, it's hittin below freezing at night so water could have gotten on it turned into ice and broke the line, but im right now about to bleed it hopefully that'll fix it, if not I'll replace the lines with ss braided, and the master and slave

 

[born2race]

That sounds like a master cylinder problem. Same thing happened to my car. If the master was empty, fill it and start pumping the clutch, see if it comes back. Also, check behind the clutch petal to see if there is any fluid down there.

 

[Narish Do Urden]

No fluid behind the pedal on the floor.
I did bleed it as much as I could I ran out of a big bottle of some generic auto zone dot 3 brake fluid. The clutch did regain pressure, still seems like it comes back up a little slow. My GS the pedal came with my foot when I lifted it pretty quickly.
I'm going to do it again when I can get 2 bottles of the same junk and 1 or 2 of clutch fluid to flush out the dot 3. The air seemed to be gone, but my friend keeps stressin that it "didn't seem like it, just keep doin it." But yeah I ran out of fluid.

The slave could still be goin, not gonna rule it out. I pushed the "fork" to the right (into the slave) was fairly easy to do. I started the car and pumped the clutch it stiffened up, put the car in reverse, and in first.
Also this short throw shifter is kinda stiff at shifting, it slides in and out of gear fine, but moving it just takes some effort, is that supposed to be like that?

I checked the master cyl after the last time I bled it, I filled it a little under max bled it, it's about half way between min and max. It retained the fluid. Maybe I got it, maybe I'm hoping.

 

[needbooost]

Sorry to tell you this but from what you describe it sounds more like a tob failure. I just dealt with this same problem a month ago, I spent all weekend working the master/slave to get nowhere.

 

[Narish Do Urden]

Tob? Throw out bearing?

I can put the car in gear with it on and off, with no grinding. It does move in and out of gears seemingly smooth. Just the shifter and moving that is stiff. Probably bushings not lined up properly on the install. Again no grinding at all.

I won't rule that out either for the clutch issue, but I'm just not seein it being a throw out bearing. Until I can bleed the Slave cyl and it without a doubt has no air in it, I don't think I'll really know what needs what until then, for the next diagnosis, probably replacing them.

But bleeding it the amount I did do, helped a ton.

 

[born2race]

If you say when you fill it, the clutch comes back up slowly, thats exactly what happened with my car. Id fill it, the pedal would be very easy to push down & it would come up kinda slow, but it would work. Then after a couple of days itd start to sag down to the floor again because id need to refill the master again. So our problems sound very similar so id double check ## master.

 

[sccrbrandon4788]

Isn't there a return spring that is supposed to bring the pedal back up? My 99 RS has one and I just replaced the clutch master cylinder due to a leak, but my pedal would always come back up even if it wouldn't disengage the clutch.

 

[ebailey95]

Isn't there a return spring that is supposed to bring the pedal back up? My 99 RS has one and I just replaced the clutch master cylinder due to a leak, but my pedal would always come back up even if it wouldn't disengage the clutch.

Yes there is a spring on the pedal, but on all my dsm's the spring hasn't been strong enough to pull the pedal up on its own. It only comes back up after it reaches a certain return point. Yours may be different or of an aftermarket design.

 

[Narish Do Urden]

After bleeding it a LOT more today, as in another 32oz Dot 3, I didn't see any more air come out of the Slave at about 3/4th full bottle, and it seemed to have resolved the issue for now.

I'll be checking periodically to see if the fluids have leaked out, my hope is it was just low when they bled it from swapping transmissions, but we will see. The clutch comes back up like it did in the GS, the master cyl I guess could have an internal leak. I'll post back if something changes.

Yes there is a spring on the pedal, but on all my dsm's the spring hasn't been strong enough to pull the pedal up on its own. It only comes back up after it reaches a certain return point. Yours may be different or of an aftermarket design.

Yeah I'll probably replace this regardless of my issue to try and get a faster response, even though it seems fine for now, still a tad slower than I'd like it to be. Maybe this is the fix for it.

 

[Narish Do Urden]

All right it's been about a week or so, and with constant driving.

My clutch master cyl, drained twice since my last post. There's no leak by the Slave that I can tell, or a puddle of brake fluid on my floor mat. I'm going to go ahead and guess it's an internal leak through the master cyl, and just replace both anyways and get some SS Braided lines.

 

[NHerron]

Awesome DSM channel

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWKybsZMHZs&list=PL4B97C16D423317DD&index=6]Trans & Clutch 6 - Bench Bleeding the Clutch - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPKngQ54yJs&list=PL4B97C16D423317DD&index=8]Trans & Clutch 8 - Adjust the Clutch - YouTube[/ame]

 

[flyingewok]

That spring doesn't really have anything to do with returning the clutch. It's just there to take up the extra little slack between the point when you touch the clutch and when it hits the hydraulic pressure in the cylinders/lines and the pressure plate. That's whats returning the clutch, pressure plate pushes back on fork, slave, pressure in lines, master, pedal.