Valves not closing

[Mikelb]

Hey, not getting into a lot of details, but I pulled my heads. 4 valves (intake, cylinder 2 & 3) weren't closing all the way. I never had a problem out of the car, that I knew of. It used to have idle issues, but I fixed that with a lot of gaskets. Timing was dead on, never heard pistons smack valves.

Is there any way to adjust them to close properly? What could cause this?

Do I need to pull them out to see if they're bent?

The other valves, IIRC, were fine.

 

[ekanddsm]

take the hla out and see if they move, does the valve move down? valve guides worn and possibly binding? many variables

 

[Mikelb]

Everything seems to move when you rotate the cams, the heads were rebuilt not too long ago, I was told a/b 30k.

Edit: I didn't even get to put 15k on the car, when the trans broke(x2)

 

[gsxtacy]

remove the cams.

if they do not close/shut...they are bent.

Best of luck....and FYI DSM's only have (1) Cylinder Head.

 

[Mikelb]

^sry, I'm used to workin' on V6's (see Stealth/3000GT )

What is the torque pattern/spec for the cams? I don't have a manual yet, and have only gone so far as I could find specs (I don't want to do anything wrong and damage this, I'm in new territory here)

 

[highpsi93tsi]

I'd say its lifters...probably all full of gunk and not working properly. Seems to be and more of an issue as these cars age. OR with the new laws for engine oil (sludge build-up???)

 

[Mikelb]

K, I actually remember having very loud lifters the last time the car was run... (it wasn't even run for 15min, maybe moved 20 ft, and 2nd trans exploded, onto the AWD now)

^I'll pop one of those lifters out and check it...I wish I had the money, I'd swap for 3rd gen lifters...

Before the car had sat for months, I never had the lifter tick though... and I know what that is from the Stealth

 

[assault187]

Im having this problem as well. I am rebuilding a head for a freind but the # 3 and 5 valves on the exhaust side WILL NOT seal. I have done a few things so far which are....Swapped the cam out with one I had laying around, Replaced all rockers, and replaced all lifters. The valves seat/seal fine with the cam off the head but when its bolted on these 2 valves never seal. When I rotate the cam #3 & 5 vlaves open more then the rest. I removed the troubled valves and springs to investigate, they are the propper length and they seem straight. There was no debris under the spring seat thing or on top of the spring where the retainer sits and the valve locks seated fine like the rest of them. There is also no binding in the valve guides and I recently put in new valve seals. What should I look for, what should be my next step?? Any and all help would be appreciated, I would like to get this head back to my freind in perfect working order as soon as possible.


-NICK-

 

[fourreGsixty3]

You should have measured the valve stem height before unistalling them so that was if there was a difference you could have a machine shop grind them down to what you needed. Swap the valves with valves from a different cylinder, and see if its the valves, or the cylinder.

 

[tqmx1]

Did you blead down all the lifters? Sure way to hang a valve on a reassembly.

 

[assault187]

Did you blead down all the lifters? Sure way to hang a valve on a reassembly.

On the old set I did, new set I didnt.

 

[assault187]

You should have measured the valve stem height before unistalling them so that was if there was a difference you could have a machine shop grind them down to what you needed. Swap the valves with valves from a different cylinder, and see if its the valves, or the cylinder.

I'll do this tonight and post back with results

 

[GVR4592]

If you didn't bleed the lifters, that's most likely the cause of the problem. They can be a pain in the ass to bleed properly, you have to make sure you get the plunger pushed all the way down or you'll have issues.

 

[assault187]

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I bled the lifters, replaced the lifters, replaced the rockers, cams, valves, valve seals, springs, retainers, and valve locks...still have the same outcome

 

[GVR4592]

What happens when you push down on those two lifters? The should compress easily.

 

[assault187]

Yea they do push down pretty easy.... After i posted the pics I went back out and tryed to fix this once again. 2 full sets of good valves, springs...you name it, I tried in all different configurations and it just makes other valves the new problem, So i'll swap the new troubled valves and it all changes again and again and again...Im gonna have to say I GIVE UP!

 

[fourreGsixty3]

I would remove the valves, and mic them for out of round on the stems. This could cause them to hang up but look OK to the naked eye.

 

[Defiant]

Holy crap, what are those valves out of? They're standing ¼" proud of the seats? There's an eighth difference in the stem length from one to the other?
No, there's something really, really wrong there.

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

From looking at the second picture, the valve looks like it has been wacked. Best thing to do it pop off the retainers and spring. Then try to lap the valve. This will tell you right away if the valve is bent.
Matt

 

[Defiant]

Rolling it across a flat work table will tell you if it's bent. That's if you can't tell just from seeing what it's doing on the seat.

 

[assault187]

Ive rolled them, MICed them and compared with another set of STOCK valves, they checked out good. Not to mention swapping everyting a few times....I dont know

If someone figures this out such as a machine shop or somthing, I swing back and post the problem. Im sure I have a few of you curious now.

 

[dsm-onster]

assault187, the valve locks on the right DOES NOT look seated properly. It clearly looks higher in the retainer than the left valve locks in the picture. Which certainly could be fooling me. Besides, it makes no good sense that the valve locks would be seated properly and there be THAT much discrepency in stem height at the rocker. Unless the valve lock seats are machined at different lengths on the valve stem.

What happened to this head? Jumped timing?

Did you check valve length against other new valves (even from the same manufacturer), or did you pull out a known working exhaust valve from that head? I've seen reputable distibutors (Federal-Mogul, GP Sorensen) distribute cases of mislabled parts. Those valves clearly look longer. Can you take a small ruler and measure the installed spring height? and check that against properly seating valves?

Just throwing some ideas out there.

 

[92awddsm]

Is Defiant and I the only ones that noticed that stem tip length above the keeper groove on the right valve is drastically more that the left? But at the same time, spring installed height looks to be pretty close between the 2. You either have the wrong valves in there or it is a factory defect. If they close with cams removed but stay open with them installed, the problem is as clear as the pic you posted. The problem is the valves themselves and it is not something that just happened, its been like that.

 

[dsm-onster]

No, you're not the only one .

Besides, it makes no good sense that the valve locks would be seated properly and there be THAT much discrepency in stem height at the rocker.

. . .I did not use the proper term, "stem tip".

I defintely agree w/ you both. A mentioned, it has happened frequently that autoparts distributors incorrectly label their packages or put the wrong part in the right package.

 

[assault187]

I got ALL of them to seat correctly... But they still didnt seal. I gave the head back and they sent it to a machine shop. This is the last time I do a favor for a freind....everything turns into a headache, and I dont want the liability.

But.....
I BLED the lifters once more for a good while to make sure every single drop of oil was completly cleared from them.....assembled the head to check, and still a no go. So I swapped all the lifters out with used lifters that were brought over. Same outcome BUT the machine shop told them that IT WAS THE LIFTERS. So Im pretty sure the 1st it was beat and 2nd set didnt work for one reason or another. I have done 5 DSM heads NOT including 2 of my own and NEVER had this problem, So now I look like an idiot. I think I'll stick to working on my own car to save the headaches, everything (for the most part) goes soo smooth on my own car.