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XC92

Proven Member
685
93
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
First thanks to everyone who's chimed in with tips and advice to help me diagnose and fix the various issues with my clutch system and trans. It's helped a lot even though there are still issues yet to be resolved (through no fault of anyone but myself and the fact that there are so many of them, which is to be expected for a 1G DSM at this point, especially when various maintenance tasks have been deferred, and weather forced me to put some off till spring).

Anyway, I just want to post an update on my Talon's status, and what's left to be done. With respect to the clutch disengagement issue, I've basically done all that can be done without replacing old parts, and there are still issues with disengagement and shifting into 1st gear, so clearly I need to replace some parts, make some adjustments, and fix the trans.

I.e. I've turned the clutch master cylinder rod as far in as it can go, bled the clutch line multiple times, adjusted the cruise control switch up, and replaced the slave cylinder with a new OEM unit, and still the pedal measurements are off and disengagement is almost at the floor (and after things have warmed up literally at if not beyond the floor, leading to grinding).

I've also confirmed that the pedal assembly has the dreaded slop, so it has to come out and I probably need to replace the lever arm at the very least, along with the bushings, replacing the arm bushing with a brass (or bronze?) one and have it properly welded.

I should probably also replace the MC, which shows signs of leaking (even though there doesn't appear to be air in the line, but perhaps there's some in or by the MC and I just haven't bled it properly. While I'm at it I might as well replace the rubber clutch hose and some other parts that have likely worn out, like the shift cable connectors and bushings.

And, of course, the trans has to come out and be rebuilt. And the flywheel resurfaced or replaced. And a new fork and fulcrum (I already replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate & TOB with quality new ones).

To summarize, here's what needs to be done
  1. Remove pedal assembly and replace and weld in place new OEM lever arm, using new bushings, including a brass or bronze one by the lever arm, along with new pad & clevis pin, and reinstall
  2. Replace the master cylinder with new OEM unit (and bench bleed before installing)
  3. Replace clutch line rubber hose with braided steel hose
  4. Replace shift and select cable connectors and bushings (at both ends)
  5. Remove trans and rebuild as needed
  6. Replace fork & fulcrum (probably with Competition Clutch versions)
  7. Resurface or replace flywheel (probably with ACT Streetlite)
  8. Bleed and adjust everything as needed once everything's reinstalled
Have I missed anything? I'm sure I have. And yes, I'll replace the rear engine seal when I have the flywheel out, but that's a whole other subsystem.

Several quick questions:

One, I'm wondering if I really need to weld the new lever arm if I put in a new one and lock it down tight (per spec of course), though, if it doesn't really start to slop for many years.

Two, could I just rebuild the MC with an OEM rebuild kit, or should I replace the whole thing?

Three, is it ok to replace only the flexible clutch hose, or should I replace the whole line with a new SS braided hose? The line itself appears to be fine, although who knows how the fittings will hold up when I replace the hose and MC. I have NICOPP left over from a brake line replacement on another car that I ended up not undertaking, and various fittings, and think I can do a proper double flare or bubble, so I could always use that to replace the line if needed.
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,462
1,675
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
In my opinion check the condition of the cltuch pedal rod milled surfaces "D".
If they are find then check the lever hole "D". This is the part that is likely worn and can be replaced given you are using a softer clutch. I did not weld my 1g. I replaced bushings and the lever and it restored it to new.
I have rebuilt master cylinders with clean bores. Works fine. I used an OEM kit to do so.
Replace just the hose, No need to replace the entire hard line.
These are my opinions to your situation.
 

XC92

Proven Member
685
93
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
In my opinion check the condition of the cltuch pedal rod milled surfaces "D".
If they are find then check the lever hole "D". This is the part that is likely worn and can be replaced given you are using a softer clutch. I did not weld my 1g. I replaced bushings and the lever and it restored it to new.
I have rebuilt master cylinders with clean bores. Works fine. I used an OEM kit to do so.
Replace just the hose, No need to replace the entire hard line.
These are my opinions to your situation.

I haven't taken out the pedal assembly but I can't see what else could be causing this slop, especially seeing as it's so common with 1G's. Given how often I used to downshift (which I now know is a no-no) I bet I have more clutch pedal presses than average per distance driven, which might explain why this happened with such relatively low mileage (<78k). When I take it out I'll find out for sure, but I'd be surprised if it's something else.

So you don't think I need to weld it, given that I have an SBC Stage 2 DD (and am unlikely to ever need or install anything harder)? Should I install a brass bushing there just in case?

I'll replace just the hose with a steel one.

As for the MC, I guess I should take out the old one first and take it apart to see what the situation calls for. Maybe I can get by with just a rebuild kit, OEM of course. $85 cheaper.

There, including not needing welding, you probably just saved me well over $100!

Might as well replace the clevis pin, washer, etc.?

And, CC fork/fulcrum, not OEM? (Essentially same price either way.)
 

XC92

Proven Member
685
93
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York

iugrad92turbo

Supporting Member
12,607
655
May 22, 2007
Kalamazoo, Michigan
Clevis maybe mines out now with bronze bushings getting it welded by my buddy. Waiting on my south bend 2700 clutch with ceramic disc, from tim any day now.
 

XC92

Proven Member
685
93
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Clevis maybe mines out now with bronze bushings getting it welded by my buddy. Waiting on my south bend 2700 clutch with ceramic disc, from tim any day now.

It's not that much so I might as well, but it doesn't hurt to ask. I hope that the pedal and shaft are ok as I understand that they're no longer made and very hard to find.

Is getting it out as hard as it's made out to be? Any tips?
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,462
1,675
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
You can take out the lever on the end of the pedal assembly without removing the entire thing. You can see the pedal assembly with a flash light and see if it needs to be pulled. You'll have the lever in your hand at that point also and you can see if it's a problem. Keep in mind limited availability of parts. I went a few vendors and didn't see that part available. You will have to call around. If you can't find it your only option may be welding.
 

XC92

Proven Member
685
93
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
You can take out the lever on the end of the pedal assembly without removing the entire thing. You can see the pedal assembly with a flash light and see if it needs to be pulled. You'll have the lever in your hand at that point also and you can see if it's a problem. Keep in mind limited availability of parts. I went a few vendors and didn't see that part available. You will have to call around. If you can't find it your only option may be welding.

I'll take a look to see if I can replace it in-place, thanks.

But availability doesn't appear to be a problem, at least with the lever arm, the part that connects to the MC via a clevis pin. It's a bit over $35 or so. The pedal and shaft is the part that's supposed to be hard if not impossible to get, new.

https://www.mitsubishiautopartsdirect.com/oem-parts/mitsubishi-lever-assembly-mb599879

Btw I recently placed an order with them and it worked out fine. Took a bit longer than I expected given that they're in MD and I'm in NY, but it arrived in a reasonable amount of time considering I choose the next-cheapest shipping method. They also have pretty good prices, especially compared to non-Mitsu vendors, if money's tight. Not on everything but on many items. E.g. they're asking $110 for an OEM hydraulic TB tensioner.

I'm not going to even think of taking on the trans rebuild until everything upstream of it is resolved. First the disengagement issue, then the flywheel, fork & fulcrum, and likely the shift and select linkages. I want the smoothest possible shifting with a stock DSM trans once I'm done. That's why I'm taking this on first.
 
Last edited:

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,462
1,675
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
I'm still confused by the statement saying you screwed the master rod in as far as it would go. You mean before it falls out of the clevis? Thats screwing out. If you screwed it in where there are lots of threads through the clevis that is the opposite direction and you get less disengagement that way.
 

XC92

Proven Member
685
93
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
I screwed it in as in towards the MC. I guess that's not the common term. Anyway, that's what I did, so no more threads or else it would fall out. Still low disengagement. It only gave me a few more mm and I need way more than that.

As you wrote recently the car can be driven but not enjoyably or properly, risking yet more trans damage. That, plus the fact that it's bad for the clutch to drive without a resurfaced or new flywheel, is why it's going to sit until I fix all of this. Hopefully they won't announce a street repaving right after I pull the trans. That's my nightmare scenario.
 

iugrad92turbo

Supporting Member
12,607
655
May 22, 2007
Kalamazoo, Michigan
Get 3/8 extensions to help you out, and be care ful not to break the connectors when you drop the steeering column, especially the old wiring on the clutch switch.
 

XC92

Proven Member
685
93
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
You mean 3/8" socket extensions? Got 'em already, along with 1/4" & 1/2", plus flex adapters for each. I loaded up on tools when I started working on our cars. Good decision.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
488
175
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
I’m still suggesting you rebuild the MC and swap in the 2g bolt while you have it apart. Just get a beck/arnley 2g MC to rob the bolt from. They’re pretty cheap, though you could ask if anyone wants to sell you a used 2g MC, since the bolt would be fine. Then just try putting that rebuilt MC back in, adjust it to get the pedal height correct, and see how it does. Way less work than taking out the pedal bracket straight away. The MC mounts in the engine bay, pretty easy.
 

XC92

Proven Member
685
93
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
If I remove just the lever arm, do I have to do anything first, e.g. release the spring, remove the clevis pin, etc.? And do I have to watch out for the spring so it doesn't pop out and injure me? Basically, what's the correct order of steps to do this?

Also, has no one come up with a way to fix the "D" hole slop issue by somehow shimming the hole with an insert so you don't have to replace and weld the arm?
 

XC92

Proven Member
685
93
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
I’m still suggesting you rebuild the MC and swap in the 2g bolt while you have it apart. Just get a beck/arnley 2g MC to rob the bolt from. They’re pretty cheap, though you could ask if anyone wants to sell you a used 2g MC, since the bolt would be fine. Then just try putting that rebuilt MC back in, adjust it to get the pedal height correct, and see how it does. Way less work than taking out the pedal bracket straight away. The MC mounts in the engine bay, pretty easy.

But isn't a longer MC rod not unlike a longer slave rod, a band-aid, as many say? If everything is working properly, e.g. MC, SC, line/hose, lever arm, fork, fulcrum, flywheel, etc., I shouldn't need this, should I? I'll first fix or replace all of these, along with the trans, and if that's still not enough, I'll consider doing this. The car used to shift fine back when everything was working properly and in spec. So wouldn't getting it all working fine and in spec fix this?
 
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