Twin turbo dsm?

[shadoof77]

So i'm just curious but has it ever been tried a twin turbo set-up for a dsm?
You think the engine would handle it? And yes its only a 4 cylinder which would probably be useless but how many people can say they have a twin turbo'ed dsm
maybe something new to try if you got money to blow
inputs please

 

[shadoof77]

Use the Search button. You will more than likely find a few Threads about a TT DSM

Yea i thought the same thing, however there just aren't any threads i saw about twin turbo dsm's.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/custom-fabrication/336541-my-compound-turbo-set-up.html


Enjoy your spoon.

 

[shadoof77]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/custom-fabrication/336541-my-compound-turbo-set-up.html


Enjoy your spoon.

that is nuts i must say. thanks for the thread link!

 

[MadBlue]

Hi,

I think there are several definitions of "twin turbo".
The definitions are unfortunately not "widely adopted". (are this the right words?) So it's not always clear what kind of setup is really meant.


The classic definition of a Twin-Turbo is a setup with two turbos which are ordered serial or switchable. So you can take use of two turbos with different features. For low revs you can use a small turbo which spools soon and a big turbo for high power on the top end...
Such a setup is very complicated and difficult to build. But it's very effective. BMW use such a TwinTurbo and there is almost no turbo lag. VW uses a similar setup too, but instead of using a small turbo for low revs they use a roots-charger and combine it with a big turbo for higher revs...
Even on a DSM this would make sense because it makes the car more usable und practical for all day drives...

The other Option is to build a parallel setup. Two cylinders are connected to one turbo. So every turbo gets exhausts of two cylinders. You can use smaller turbos then in a single-turbo setup, but in most cases in the top-end you will miss some power. – Such a setup is usually called a Bi-Turbo... you can find them on many V-Engines. (Supra Bi-Turbo, 300ZX TwinTurbo ect.) Porsche use this setup to in its 911 Turbo/GT2, Panamera Turbo and Cayenne Turbo.
Such a setup is not optimal for a DSM in my opinion. But there are even parallel quad-turbo setups for 4-cyl engines so it seems not to be the worst thing at all.

Sören

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Pointless on a 2L engine. Different opinion if we're talking about a 6cyl or larger.

 

[MadBlue]

I think this is a question of priorities.

If you want a track car, you don't need more than a single big turbo.

But if you want a all-day street going racer you going to have a problem. A big turbo don't gives you the necessary power at low revs and it when it spools you will get suddenly a lot more power... A small turbo don't will have such problems at low-revs but it don't gives you enough boost to get real high power out of the engine. I such a case a twin turbo can be an option. As I has wrote before, some car manufactures are using such setups to get there turbo-engines more "street able". (sorry... at this point my English is to poor explain it well)

In my opinion it's far too much work and too difficult. But it's not pointless.

Sören

@ GSXSixteenG:

Thats awsome!

 

[gstryyder]

not true with a compound turbo setup. It is actually very beneficialband efficient on a 4 cylinder due to lack of spool on a large turbo with a small motor

 

[DSM1G90]

...let alone balancing the intakes so all four cylinders will produce the same output...

...like doing motorcycle carbs....

-DSM

 

[1gDSM4g63]

The other Option is to build a parallel setup. Two cylinders are connected to one turbo. So every turbo gets exhausts of two cylinders. You can use smaller turbos then in a single-turbo setup, but in most cases in the top-end you will miss some power. – Such a setup is usually called a Bi-Turbo... you can find them on many V-Engines. (Supra Bi-Turbo, 300ZX TwinTurbo ect.) Porsche use this setup to in its 911 Turbo/GT2, Panamera Turbo and Cayenne Turbo.
Such a setup is not optimal for a DSM in my opinion. But there are even parallel quad-turbo setups for 4-cyl engines so it seems not to be the worst thing at all.

Yup, I get the benefits of both worlds in a twin-scroll setup, less lag and ridiculous top-end power. I spool around 20 psi at around 4400-4500 rpm and it's very capable of breaking at least 800 HP in the top-end.

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[DSM1G90]

Nice looking motor bay there - twin turbos and all ... and you're smart with the clear cam sprocket cover..

..but no strut tower brace..... oh well ..

Man...the power that one can muster out of a small, two litre, 4banger motor .....

good luck - DSM

 

[white92talontsi]

Nice looking motor bay there - twin turbos and all ... and you're smart with the clear cam sprocket cover..

..but no strut tower brace..... oh well ..

Man...the power that one can muster out of a small, two litre, 4banger motor .....

good luck - DSM

I dont think his car is twin. Hes talking about Twin scroll turbos something totally different.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Yep, still pointless and far too much work for a 2L.

 

[99gst214]

Anymore a twin-scroll set-up is the best of both worlds. Or should I say the most bang for your buck! Look at the Evo VIII and IX. They make alot of power with minimal lag. I am not totally against the idea of a TT set-up though. Depending on the displacement of the motor and the turbo(s) size. A 4g63t bored .020 - .040 over would probably be easier to work with. I think it is very unique and regardless of the complications, once its tuned properly you could have a very efficient car with very high HP numbers. Not to mention that it could be a very street"able" car with the same numbers that most dsm's only see as a track car! Just my $0.02!

 

[mainerdsm]

MUch more efficient to have a single turbo setup on a 4cyl. My brother tried to explain to me how its not and think about it. Two turbos hooking up is going to make more turbo lag. If you do it the other way with 2 cyl's for each turbo your only gonna be able to run 2 small turbo's meens less engine space more wieght more piping another waste gate it just goes on and on.

 

[99gst214]

MUch more efficient to have a single turbo setup on a 4cyl. My brother tried to explain to me how its not and think about it. Two turbos hooking up is going to make more turbo lag. If you do it the other way with 2 cyl's for each turbo your only gonna be able to run 2 small turbo's meens less engine space more wieght more piping another waste gate it just goes on and on.

Did you not open the link on the #4 post? I know that a compound set-up is different from two turbos using seperate exhaust flow ports. Still there are ways to make two turbos be very efficient ande make lots of power. I don't truely think there is any one right post in this thread! It may be time consuming and take a lot of money, but if thats what you want to do then by all means go for it! But for the majority of dsm'ers, 1 turbo is plenty to work with. There are so many options on turbos anymore that you can normally find something to suit your needs. From the looks of cost efficency to time consumption, I would still stick behind my original post when saying that a twin scroll hands down is the most bang for you buck (considering that you have alot of bucks to spend!!)

 

[mainerdsm]

Did you not open the link on the #4 post? I know that a compound set-up is different from two turbos using seperate exhaust flow ports. Still there are ways to make two turbos be very efficient ande make lots of power. I don't truely think there is any one right post in this thread! It may be time consuming and take a lot of money, but if thats what you want to do then by all means go for it! But for the majority of dsm'ers, 1 turbo is plenty to work with. There are so many options on turbos anymore that you can normally find something to suit your needs. From the looks of cost efficency to time consumption, I would still stick behind my original post when saying that a twin scroll hands down is the most bang for you buck (considering that you have alot of bucks to spend!!)

Ya I agree but when shepracing is making what 800awhp or like 1000awhp on a single turbo you kinda realize if he is making that much horsepower with a single turbo whats the advantage of a twin turbo setup on a 4cyl. Hell supra's are running single turbo conversion's and making 1500whp. Sure turbo lag but when your making that much horsepower turbo lag isn't real taking in to question

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Hi,

I think there are several definitions of “twin turbo”.
The definitions are unfortunately not “widely adopted”. (are this the right words?) So it’s not always clear what kind of setup is really meant.


The classic definition of a Twin-Turbo is a setup with two turbos which are ordered serial or switchable. So you can take use of two turbos with different features. For low revs you can use a small turbo which spools soon and a big turbo for high power on the top end…
Such a setup is very complicated and difficult to build. But it’s very effective. BMW use such a TwinTurbo and there is almost no turbo lag. VW uses a similar setup too, but instead of using a small turbo for low revs they use a roots-charger and combine it with a big turbo for higher revs…
Even on a DSM this would make sense because it makes the car more usable und practical for all day drives…

The other Option is to build a parallel setup. Two cylinders are connected to one turbo. So every turbo gets exhausts of two cylinders. You can use smaller turbos then in a single-turbo setup, but in most cases in the top-end you will miss some power. – Such a setup is usually called a Bi-Turbo… you can find them on many V-Engines. (Supra Bi-Turbo, 300ZX TwinTurbo ect.) Porsche use this setup to in its 911 Turbo/GT2, Panamera Turbo and Cayenne Turbo.
Such a setup is not optimal for a DSM in my opinion. But there are even parallel quad-turbo setups for 4-cyl engines so it seems not to be the worst thing at all.

Sören

I've thought about this, but never really seen the setup, and I don't know why it would be difficult. To piggy-back two turbos. So the exhaust gasses enter the first turbo, spool, exit, and are piped to the next turbo, and letting each turbos boost compund. /with such a setup, it seems like one could use a couple 14b's or t25s, and make around 30 psi with minimal lag. Or am I full of shit?

Ya I agree but when shepracing is making what 800awhp or like 1000awhp on a single turbo you kinda realize if he is making that much horsepower with a single turbo whats the advantage of a twin turbo setup on a 4cyl. Hell supra's are running single turbo conversion's and making 1500whp. Sure turbo lag but when your making that much horsepower turbo lag isn't real taking in to question

Anybody with some cash can buy a turbo the size of their head and make 1000AWHP on a single turbo. Issue is, it won't make any power til 5,500 or 6,000 revs. That's an issue if you want to dive the car on the street. But, a successful TT setup of some sort would allow all the horsepower of the aforementioned turbo, Without the downside of turbo lag. Especially if these two turbos spool around 3,000 revs.
Sure supra's are running single turbo swaps, but that's a completely different story. if you go from 3 cylinders spooling a turbo, and the other three spooling another, then go to a single turbo setup, there will be twice the exhaust energy spooling that larger turbo. But still it's a turbo the size of someones head to make those numbers, and even with the extra exhaust energy to the turbo, with something that huge, there will be massive turbo lag, making the car garbage on the street.
Remember buddy, these guys are looking for the "happy medium"

 

[99gst214]

Anybody with some cash can buy a turbo the size of their head and make 1000AWHP on a single turbo. Issue is, it won't make any power til 5,500 or 6,000 revs. That's an issue if you want to dive the car on the street. But, a successful TT setup of some sort would allow all the horsepower of the aforementioned turbo, Without the downside of turbo lag. Especially if these two turbos spool around 3,000 revs.
Sure supra's are running single turbo swaps, but that's a completely different story. if you go from 3 cylinders spooling a turbo, and the other three spooling another, then go to a single turbo setup, there will be twice the exhaust energy spooling that larger turbo. But still it's a turbo the size of someones head to make those numbers, and even with the extra exhaust energy to the turbo, with something that huge, there will be massive turbo lag, making the car garbage on the street.
Remember buddy, these guys are looking for the "happy medium"

Exactly!!!! A happy medium. (Just a fancy way to say compromise) But I totally agree!

 

[mainerdsm]

These guys looking for a happy medium Dd twin turbo have garaged thier car for a few months and spent some money. And spooling at 6k down shifting I'd rather do the job with 1 turbo than 2.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Hell supra's are running single turbo conversion's and making 1500whp. Sure turbo lag but when your making that much horsepower turbo lag isn't real taking in to question

Yup, people with Supra switch to a single turbo if they want real power. Plus going to a twin-scroll isn't that bad spooling at 20 or so psi on a HX52 at 4400-4500 rpm. It spools way faster than a single-scroll. And if you're still complaining about the lag you don't know what it's like. When it hits boost you lose traction even on a AWD and tear away.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Two turbos has been working pretty well for me. We'll see what I can get out of it this year.

YouTube - RWD Talon, first two runs on Compound Turbos

 

[wiscbadger32]

Damn that engine bay is very clean. nice job man

 

[newTSIguy]

Two turbos has been working pretty well for me. We'll see what I can get out of it this year.

YouTube - RWD Talon, first two runs on Compound Turbos

Man that car is soooo sick that vid just made me cream my pants!

 

[hurricanecris24]

I don't even think its possible to twin turbo a 4g63 correct me if I'm wrong. My compound setup is better