Turbo Size(420A)

[HPfreak]

hey, im trying to turbo my 420a but i dont understand what these A/R number mean and how you can kinda tell where the turbo will start to spool because i want to pick a turbo, if possible, that starts to spool at low rpm and gives good power throught the whole rpm band. How would i find the right turbo for me? Thanks, any help would be great.

 

[ilikespeeding]

Im a fan of the 16G or 14B

 

[DSMcrazy3]

I can't remember right now what exactly A/R means, but it is referring to the size of the hot/cold side inlets. For instance my T3 has a .42 Compressor A/R(cold side) anda .63 Tubine A/R(hot side).

When looking for spool time, the size of the actual compressor wheel has alot to do with it. The bigger the wheel the longer it takes to get it going full speed, however, once it is going it's got more more momentum, so provides power longer. As you can see, generally the quicker the spool up, the quicker the power gives in. The longer the spool time, the longer you have power.

Spool time really doesn't have a big margin of difference. All turbo's usually spool between 2700 and 3200 RPM.

Most 420a owners who are going turbo, including myself go with the Garrett T series turbo's. There are alot of parts availible for installation, and they're easy to find.

 

[HPfreak]

hey, i have heard good things about those turbos, however i already bought a manifold with a t3 flange in it. i was also looking at a turbo that looked good but what do i know. these are the specs.

TO4E Turbo

Turbine Wheel Excuder 2.48"
Mayor 2.89"
Compressor Wheel Excuder 2.07"
Mayor 2.36"

ComPressor Turbine Trim
50 A/R 63 A/R 57 Trim

 

[DSMcrazy3]

I can't remember which one it is, but that is the turbo that comes on one of the turbo kits made for 420a. It's a great turbo, do you have a link to it?

 

[HPfreak]

ummm the link is

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&item=8063223588&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT

 

[DSMcrazy3]

I'm assuming you bought it already?

The only problem with that, is that it's so cheap. I know cheap is good, but that means quality might be lacking, and problems that generally occur on turbo's at 100,000ish miles, can occur at 10,000 miles or sooner..Of course they can occur later too. Just when a turbo goes for that cheap, be sure to pay attention to it's condition as time goes by. I hope it works out for you though.

Where did you get your manifold from and what kind is it?

 

[HPfreak]

i also bought the manifold from ebay... its a stainless steel manifold similar to the obx for the 4g63 but its for the 420a motor .... another question about the turbo, around where do you thin that turbo will start to spool up becouse im hopeing that it wont start to spool after 3k

 

[HPfreak]

im sorry i forgot to mention that i did not buy the turbo already so if you have any recommendations that would be great too thanks but the manifold has a t3 flange on it

 

[ilikespeeding]

i also bought the manifold from ebay... its a stainless steel manifold similar to the obx for the 4g63 but its for the 420a motor .... another question about the turbo, around where do you thin that turbo will start to spool up becouse im hopeing that it wont start to spool after 3k

Get ready to do some fuel mods if you dont want that spooling late.

 

[HPfreak]

so your saying that if i do some fuel modifications and what kind, i would be able to prevent the late spooling

 

[DSMcrazy3]

I couldn't find one on ebay just now. Be sure that all of the runners have support brackets. Those stainless steel tubular manifolds are prone to cracking near the welds. As for the turbo I would do alittle more searching and spend some more money for a dependable product.

Look into thestreetsource.net on Ebay. They carry alot of products for the 420a turbo consumers. I can't remember how much he sells his turbo's for, probably around the 400-500 range. Shoot him a message on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DOHC...ryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You have to modify your fuel system no matter what. So don't worry about that. Let's stay on topic so the mods don't have to get involved.

Do some searching in the 420a Turbo Conversion forums here, you'll learn alot I promise, and probably, all of your questions have already been answered.

 

[HPfreak]

ohh im sorry ... thats what i meant ... i want it to start spooling before 3k sorry about that

 

[ilikespeeding]

How can you guys sell that stuff and go to sleep at night?

First a complete turbo kit should have

Oil lines
Oil connectors
Pre drilled oil pan
MBC
S/FMIC (yes, with the .6 A/R)
S/FMIC pipe kit
Turbo
manifold
downpipe
BOV
vacuum lines to AFPR and WG
AFPR
SAFCII
SAFCII harness and wiring kit
injectors
fuel pump
pistons of low compression
wristpins
bearings
rods
boost guage and wires
oil adaptors
new sparkplugs
Fuel pressure guage
exhaust gas temp guage
a pillar
gaskets
and a 3 year membership to AAA when that shit breaks

 

[ilikespeeding]

so your saying that if i do some fuel modifications and what kind, i would be able to prevent the late spooling

You're going to need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, some AFC, oversized injectors, and a high flow fuel pump

Id go with 550 cc injectors, SAFC II, walboro 255lph fp

 

[HPfreak]

about the injectors .... i see the accel 36lbs and i was wondering if those are good and what does that equal out to in cc's

 

[ilikespeeding]

390 cc...

http://www.slowboyracing.com/shop.php?sid=&cat=2225


For the install:
http://www.2gnt.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=91

 

[DSMcrazy3]

How can you guys sell that stuff and go to sleep at night?

First a complete turbo kit should have

yada yada yada....

I'm going to recommend you stop posting for your own good. I don't know who you're referring to as "you guys" but not one member on this board is affiliated with thestreetsource.net. That said, the products he puts out are great quality, with great customer service to go with it.

No, that isn't a full turbo kit, but the "kit" you listed had many many things you don't need. I don't see how you could tell an un-informed person that he or she needs all of those things for a turbo kit and go to sleep at night. You don't need "pistons of low compression", I've never seen a SAFC 1 or 2 that doesn't come with the proper wiring, don't need rods, new bearings, wrist pins(which are what?), or oil adaptors(which are what?). I'm not sure if you posted this list of non-sense to make yourself sound smart or not, but it did nothing but make you look stupid.

HPfreak, I'm going to advise you not to take ilikespeeding seriously, until he proves himself knowledgable(no I'm not calling you out to tell me everything you know..Or think you know)

 

[DSMcrazy3]

You're going to need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, some AFC, oversized injectors, and a high flow fuel pump

Id go with 550 cc injectors, SAFC II, walboro 255lph fp

A 12:1 FMU will be fine instead of an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. You don't have to get an SAFC, the gains you get from it are minimal compared to that of other tuning programs such as Megasquirt. You don't need bigger injectors either.

Again, none of this is on topic and you're mis-informing the original poster making him think he needs things he actually doesn't.

HPfreak, right now your motor can only handle about 8 PSI, the list of things ilikespeeding is giving you is only accurate unless your motor is built with those killer pistons of low compression and stronger rods listed in his turbo kit list. To build your motor you will be spending alot more money.

Can we stay on topic now please? About his turbo choice..Even though that is pretty much covered now.

 

[RWKustoms]

HPfreak, I'd suggest you listen to what DSMcrazy3 is telling you. Obviously the dude has a turbo'ed 420A and from his posts you can see that you're getting useful info which will help me out when I help my cousin turbo his 420A.

 

[ilikespeeding]

I'm going to recommend you stop posting for your own good. I don't know who you're referring to as "you guys" but not one member on this board is affiliated with thestreetsource.net. That said, the products he puts out are great quality, with great customer service to go with it.

No, that isn't a full turbo kit, but the "kit" you listed had many many things you don't need. I don't see how you could tell an un-informed person that he or she needs all of those things for a turbo kit and go to sleep at night. You don't need "pistons of low compression", I've never seen a SAFC 1 or 2 that doesn't come with the proper wiring, don't need rods, new bearings, wrist pins(which are what?), or oil adaptors(which are what?). I'm not sure if you posted this list of non-sense to make yourself sound smart or not, but it did nothing but make you look stupid.

HPfreak, I'm going to advise you not to take ilikespeeding seriously, until he proves himself knowledgable(no I'm not calling you out to tell me everything you know..Or think you know)

First, a wrist pin is the pin that connects the piston to the rod. Im pretty surprised that you didnt know that. An oil adaptor or elbow whichever you prefer, is used to connect the oil line to the oil pan.

I think what I was saying came out wrong. I wasnt saying anywhere that you need all of that stuff, I was saying that it should come with it. In my opinion, if the suppposed kit doesnt come with everything you need, its not really a kit. Then you're left to your own devices when trying to find parts and some people assume that these parts that are left out are unimportant and go cheap.

It's true that you dont need to upgrade your injectors. However, the guy wants an early spool. It's your choice, if you want to recommend something thats going to help him get an early spool or not.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Get ready to do some fuel mods if you dont want that spooling late.

Care to iterate how fuel will help spool a turbo faster? There are concepts of tuning for spool that you have have touched upon, but none can really be achieved with any SAFC/SAFC2 method. Although you seem to know a bit about turboing the 420a, I don't see the sense in you trying to prove yourself competant over DSMcrazy3.

vacuum lines to AFPR and WG

Also, not to nitpick but you may want to revise your list slightly. Never in my life have I ever seen a WGA and AFPR split vacuum lines for pressure sources. Unless there is some strange way the WGA and AFPR are positioned that close to each other, I would believe that your information would be incorrect. Since you seem to make yourself a little more presentable with your latest post, I won't divulge myself in going a little deeper into your list.

Whichever way, both you and DSMcrazy3 have good information for the original poster. There is no need to flex internet muscle here.

Also, if you'd like a recommendation, I would recommend a to4e turbo variant with a smaller .48 AR to "spool a little faster". However, I would recommend making your goals now since the small turbine housing will be the limiting factor to your power progression as you move forward. Sooner or later if you want to make more power you will have to switch to a .63 or .82 (extreme) AR turbine housing to support the flow you need. As before, spool rate depends on the technology of the CHRA/turbo (wet vs. dry), its engineering, etc. What I suggest you do is sit down and take a long hard look at what the other ntw/t guys are running and compare spool rates. For instance, a to4e BB 50 trim will spool hundreds of rpms faster than say a to4e 60/60-1 trim turbo (not to mention it would be rediculous to run either turbo on such a small turbine housing). Although they will look identical on the outisde, they will be dramatically different in performance.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Hmmm... Should I bring up the missing link or no? haha.

HPfreak, I'm worried about the manifold you bought. You said it was for the 4G63 but the 420a also. If you can, post a pic or link to it. The 4G63's do not fit our 420a manifold.

 

[dr1665]

Also, if you'd like a recommendation, I would recommend a to4e turbo variant with a smaller .48 AR to "spool a little faster". However, I would recommend making your goals now since the small turbine housing will be the limiting factor to your power progression as you move forward. Sooner or later if you want to make more power you will have to switch to a .63 or .82 (extreme) AR turbine housing to support the flow you need.

If only you had been the first to respond to this thread. Unfortunate that it took so long to get down to this simple answer. Furthermore, a basic understanding of what "A/R" means, how it is figured, and how to make sense of it when shopping for a turbo can be had just by searching Google, if not this forum, in general.

 

[ilikespeeding]

More fuel equals more exhaust equals more force on the turbine.

Im surprised how you dont know the basics of turbocharging.