Turbo Lag!

[Ms95TSi]

Hello everyone! I'm new to the board and new to the DSM scene. I have alot to learn and this board seems like a way cool place and helpful. I own a 95 talon TSi, had it for about 4 months. I've wanted a talon for a long time so when I found mine I was stoked and I bought it. I should of asked more questions when I bought it and after I bought it I couldn't get ahold of the guy to ask the questions. Anyway it has an aftermarket turbo that's to big for the engine so it doesn't run right and has horrible turbo lag. I'm not sure what turbo is on it, bad I know . I would like to know some things I can do to help with the turbo lag. I'm planning on getting bigger injectors, high performance spark plugs and wires, and a bigger blow off valve for now. Any help would be much appreciated, thanks!

 

[stroked_AWD]

If it has a 2.3 stroker kit than you really shouldn't have that much lag even on a bigger turbo. I have a 2.3 stroker and a 60 trim turbo and i see full spool at 3000 rpms. I would do a boost leak test and go from there man.

 

[Ms95TSi]

Hmmm I'm not sure about the stroker kit. I have so much to learn about my car still. I can look at the engine and tell you where things are but that's about it. I'm so anxious to get it running good and to learn more about it though. Thanks for the suggestion. Ill try the boost leak test.

 

[viperlp01]

he said he was stoked.. not stroked ... If you can take pictures of the turbo and give serial numbers or anything that is stamped on it that would help.. Also i would check from loose bolt pre turbo ie./ manifold to head, turbo to manifold. I would also recommend doing a boost leak test.. Search home made boost leak tester in google and you can make your own. Super simple.. well good luck

 

[MrBoxx]

I doubt it's a stroker. How big is "too big" in your opinion? A picture of your turbo, or if you know can find out what it is, would help immensely. Also, when do you see boost? Your first job would be to do a boost leak test. Your second would be to do a compression test.

As far as "high performance spark plugs," they're a waste of money on these cars. All you need are NGK BPR6ES as a start, going with colder heat ranges as you up the boost. If you're going to run anything under 18psi normally, stick with the BPR6ES. Do NOT under any circumstances install platinum or iridium plugs in that car.

And why do you want a bigger blow off valve? Remember, you won't be able to vent it to the atmosphere properly without the necessary parts to do so.

 

[Ms95TSi]

I've just been told by a few people that the turbo lag is probably happening because the turbo is to big. I'll get numbers off the turbo and I do know that the turbo says EVO on it so its obviously off an EVO and that it came from a shop in Cali. I'll also do the boost leak and compression test and go from there. All I know is the car isn't running right and it's fustrating. When I bought the car it didn't have the cat in it and it ran so much better, after I put the cat in it which I didn't really want to do but I couldn't get it passed, it started running like crap. Oh and I think I'm getting referred to as a guy . I'm probably shouldn't say anything cause I know how it goes but I'm female. Hopefully people still take me serious.

 

[MrBoxx]

We still take you seriously. But if anyone starts leg-humping you on these forums, let us know. It's been known to happen on occasion.

If the turbo says Evo on it, then it's most likely an Ebay copy of the Evo3 16g. If so, that's a very appropriately sized turbo for the car. The lag could come from a severe boost leak, a pre-turbo exhaust leak, or the turbo itself may be starting to fail.

Edit: A lot of people who think they know a ton about these cars, in actuality, don't. So... most of the people who say they know how you should tune your car because "their brother/friend/cousin had one and it was really fast", you probably shouldn't listen to them.

 

[LiquidX]

Boost leak test. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...se-troubleshoot-boost-leak-tester-merged.html Get that done first so you can narrow down problems. When was the last time any maitence was done? Throwing any CELs (Check Engine Light)?

Speaking about the turbo, Boxx is correct. If it say's EVO on it, it's an ebay evo3 16g. Does it also say "turbocharger"? Check the shaft play on it. Take off the intake pipe and take a look at the compressor wheel fins. Do they seem to have any damage? Take your fingers and hold onto the nut that holds the wheel down. Move it side to side and then in and out. If there is excessive movement to the point of almost hitting the housing, it's on it's way out. If it touches the housing, then it'll need a rebuild before the wheel breaks and sends metal into your engine.

 

[Ms95TSi]

We still take you seriously. But if anyone starts leg-humping you on these forums, let us know. It's been known to happen on occasion.

If the turbo says Evo on it, then it's most likely an Ebay copy of the Evo3 16g. If so, that's a very appropriately sized turbo for the car. The lag could come from a severe boost leak, a pre-turbo exhaust leak, or the turbo itself may be starting to fail.

Edit: A lot of people who think they know a ton about these cars, in actuality, don't. So... most of the people who say they know how you should tune your car because "their brother/friend/cousin had one and it was really fast", you probably shouldn't listen to them.

Thank you! I will let you know if it happens.

Hmmm I have gotten leaks fixed on it. Vacuum hose leaks, and an exhaust manifold leak. I'll be pissed if the turbo is starting to fail, that's just my luck! I did talk to the guy alittle bit about the car and he did say the turbo is pretty much brand new but then again he could be lying. I need to figure out the best place to go to get it checked out for leaks. Alot of places like to screw girls over.

 

[Ms95TSi]

Boost leak test. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...se-troubleshoot-boost-leak-tester-merged.html Get that done first so you can narrow down problems. When was the last time any maitence was done? Throwing any CELs (Check Engine Light)?

Speaking about the turbo, Boxx is correct. If it say's EVO on it, it's an ebay evo3 16g. Does it also say "turbocharger"? Check the shaft play on it. Take off the intake pipe and take a look at the compressor wheel fins. Do they seem to have any damage? Take your fingers and hold onto the nut that holds the wheel down. Move it side to side and then in and out. If there is excessive movement to the point of almost hitting the housing, it's on it's way out. If it touches the housing, then it'll need a rebuild before the wheel breaks and sends metal into your engine.

Thanks for that link. I'll do that first. Yep it's had alot of maintence done. I've got a few spark plugs replaced, valve cover gasket replaced, a new intake manifold, new vacuum hoses, a cat put in it, new O2 sensors, and a few other things that I can't think of right now. Ya the check engine light has been comin on.

Hmmm I don't know enought to do that myself, I'll have to get someone to do it for me. My goal is to get to the point to do that kind of stuff myself.

 

[LiquidX]

Unless the intake manifold was cracked or broke, there isn't a reason to replace it to a stocker. Autozone and/or Advanced Auto does free CEL checks. Get that checked out as soon as you can and let us know what it said. If you don't want to make a tester, I know that Mitsubishi Turbo Performance Parts from Mach V Motorsports sells a kit for it.

It's very easy to check for shaft play. The Intake tube is just held on my a clamp at the compressor inlet of the turbo. Undo the screw and you can either take the intake off or leave it in. Just check for the play.

Also, to add something for maitence, PCV valve remedy. Most PCV's leak even new ones so it was on the forum that people suggested this Check Valves - US Plastic Corporation. I run one and works great.

 

[Aznspice27]

sorry to say MOST but not every ebay evo3 turbo's seems to fail... they are made of cheaper material and cannot perform no where near as the MHI evo3 turbos. i would say... if its not boost leak its the turbo... its probably a knockoff going bad already... keep us informed... and try to go with someone that knows some what more about turbocharged cars so you dont get screwed.... you can find a replacement t25 for pretty cheap in the classifieds... ask around i know a few ppl selling them i can referr you to a few dsmers here

 

[bane3d]

Let's pause for a second. I think the first thing that needs to be done is identify the components of the car. Please get a good digital camera and take several pictures of the engine bay. Specifically, the turbo (we need numbers), the blow off valve, the intercooler setup, the exhaust. I think you should take a look at this engine bay to get familiar with the names of different parts and their location: Virtual Tour of the DSM Engine Bay - 1G Visual Index Now this is a modified engine bay but should answer several questions. I'm interested in knowing if the blow off valve (bov) is recirculated (piping into the intake) or venting. I think a boost leak test is definitely needed. A lot of knowledge is required. When I was in your shoes I read:

Visual Frequently Answered Questions - Home Page
Virtual Tour of the DSM Engine Bay - Top index
1000 Already Answered Questions - Index page

These will help you learn the acronyms, familiarize you with the parts of the car, and learn a lot of common terminology. I think it will be important for you to start working towards your maintenance upkeep and getting the car as reliable as possible. Then once it's done, performance can be brought in to play.

d

 

[Ms95TSi]

Wow you guys are awesome. Thanks so much for all the suggestions and help. Looks like I have alot of reading and learning to do . It will be so nice once I acually know what I'm doin. I'll start by taking some pics as soon as I can and doing the boost leak test. Oh and I went to AutoZone a few weeks ago and got the code pulled for the check engine and it was a fuel code.

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

His wastegate is probably leaking air. My o2 Housing was cracked and i wouldnt see full spool until 5500.

 

[Ms95TSi]

I'm a she! Ya that's about what mine is doing but it's at about 4000 but it bogs even then.

 

[viperlp01]

ms.....

 

[babyviper]

Run more timing down low before the turbo starts making power to make it spool faster. Just keep an eye on your knock and egt's to make sure your not going too far.

 

[d_hidayat2000]

and also try to lean the AFR before it start to spool.
usually more timing down and lean AFR helps spool up
G luck.

 

[HurleyTSi]

I was able to check out the car at the meet we had yesterday here in Utah.

She has an Ebay 16 with an adjustable wastegate actuator that is set to open on as low of pressure as possible. I drove the car and it feels like the wastegate is is blowing open too early. I can hear the turbo whistle at about 2700 rpm but it doesn't even pull at all untill about 5000 rpm.

I'm almost positive its the wastegate opening too early. 2nd guess is the crappy 2g BOV isn't holding pressure.

 

[96eclipzGsT]

I was able to check out the car at the meet we had yesterday here in Utah.

She has an Ebay 16 with an adjustable wastegate actuator that is set to open on as low of pressure as possible. I drove the car and it feels like the wastegate is is blowing open too early. I can hear the turbo whistle at about 2700 rpm but it doesn't even pull at all untill about 5000 rpm.

I'm almost positive its the wastegate opening too early. 2nd guess is the crappy 2g BOV isn't holding pressure.

You didn't fix the wastegate for her? My 2g BOV wouldn't let me boost anymore than 10 psi.

 

[frankenstein406]

get a 1g bov and sell that ebay 16g and get a 14b,
is fuel pump rewired?
bigger injectors?
logger?
boost gauge?

 

[96eclipzGsT]

We still take you seriously. But if anyone starts leg-humping you on these forums, let us know. It's been known to happen on occasion.

If the turbo says Evo on it, then it's most likely an Ebay copy of the Evo3 16g. If so, that's a very appropriately sized turbo for the car. The lag could come from a severe boost leak, a pre-turbo exhaust leak, or the turbo itself may be starting to fail.

Edit: A lot of people who think they know a ton about these cars, in actuality, don't. So... most of the people who say they know how you should tune your car because "their brother/friend/cousin had one and it was really fast", you probably shouldn't listen to them.

MHI evo 3 turbos have "EVOIII GT" cast on them. Most ebay turbos just have "turbocharger" engraved on them.

 

[rEclipserGST]

You didn't fix the wastegate for her? My 2g BOV wouldn't let me boost anymore than 10 psi.

Yes please get rid of the 2g bov. 1g bov with a 2g adapter will slide right in. I have that on my car. You can check my gallery to see. I also have a 14b and it spools great and pulls hard. These are good replacements if your running an ebay turbo

Boost Leak check, with an air compressor. I bought a boost leak tester from ebay, works great and I'm holding up to 20 psi.

TURBO BOOST LEAK PRESSURE TESTER - DSM TD05 14B 16G 18G:eBay Motors (item 140299658984 end time Oct-03-09 21:52:02 PDT)

Buy this, and borrow/rent/buy an Air Compressor. Easy and fun to hear those leaks.

You can get a used 14b for $100 or so. OR you can get a brand new rebuilt 14b from Justin (jusmx) for around $250

 

[JusMX141]

MHI evo 3 turbos have "EVOIII GT" cast on them. Most ebay turbos just have "turbocharger" engraved on them.

WRONG.

The GT Concepts Evo III 16G's sold by Turbochargers.com have "Evo III GT" cast into the compressor cover. MHI turbos simply have "TD05H" on the cover.

If your Evo III 16G turbo has "Evo III", "DSM", or "Turbocharger" cast anywhere into the cover, it's not a MHI turbo.