turbo blown i think time to upgrade

[Jor-el]

i think my turbo is blown i was driving the other day and then she would only boost up to zero on the boost gauge and make this tiny whine noise. sound like it's blown and time to upgrade or is there something i can do?

 

[scab45]

well i think its blown and well i also think theres always time for upgrades

 

[Jor-el]

that's what i thought can i give you my list of upgrades for the replacement of the turbo and see if i have left something out (which im sure i did). it's a 99 eclipse gsx 5spd.

 

[scab45]

ya sure post it right on here so everyone can contribute to missing items or if you only want me to know you can do that too

 

[Jor-el]

Gt12 turbo from slowboy
Front mount ic from slowboy
fuel rail
550 injectors or 580
wahlpro 255 fuel pump (and fuel pump rewire)
hks bov
adustable fuel pressure regulator
ss fuel lines (rail to filter and return)
arp studs and nuts

she already has boost and air fuel gauges 3" exhaust turbo back and high flow cat
1st gen bov hard intake pipe and upper intercooler pipe.

what am i missing?

 

[BlackbirdOfPrey]

1. You can replace your blown 14b for 100 bucks or less looking on DSMtrader or Ebay. No sense in spending 1200 dollars for a turbo AND even more for the stuff you need to run it if you only need to spend 100 to get the car running.
2. you need a lot larger injectors to run a GT-12, the GT-12 is rated at 55lbs a minute which is larger than a 50 trim. Start thinking 750's at least.
3. you have nothing to tune your injectors with. A Safc will probably not cut it for 750's, so thats a new ECU and a DSMlink (unless yours is EPROM already).
4. Its not a simple matter of bolting parts and going to town. You have to look at the whole picture. You just don't pick a part cuz it looks good, you have to see how they work with each other.
5. Your exhaust tract is still clogged even with exhaust, you still need a manifold that is better than the 1g manifold (or at least have it ported), and a new O2 housing.
6. A GT-12 doesn't do so hot on an internal gate, so you need an external one.
7. A fuel rail is uneccisary, unless your running faster than 9's.

My advice is to just replace your stock turbo, and work your way up the mods list slowly so you know what everything does, and where to find things when they break. Going from a 14b to a GT-12 is no small order. Otherwise the next thing we'll see from you is a"WHy doesn't my car work right?" thread. DO MORE RESEARCH. Researching would have let you known the correct injector size for a turbo like that. If 3k is a drop in the bucket for you, then by all means have at it. (that doesn't include install costs if you don't do your own wrench work, and also if nothing breaks in the process) But I honestly don't think you are ready for what you listed off. Take your time.

BTW fill out your profile out so we know what is done to your car and you don't have to post it every time.

 

[scab45]

id say get a EGT and a boost gauge if you get all that on turbo timer to make our new turbo last longer also and make sure you have somthing to controlle the a/f ratio and have fun

 

[Jor-el]

Thanks Scab, As Far As Bird Of Preys Reply I Did Do Some Research On Injectors And Rre Says That Injectors Go By Psi And If I'm Not Running Race Fuel I Don't Need Anything Over 660's, I Don't Plan On Being A Weekend Warrior I Want As Fast Street Car. 3g's Is Not A Drop In The Bucket It's 3g's Because I Want To Do Things Right The First Time And That's Why I'm Asking If There Is Anything I'm Missing, Instead Of Asking What Turbo Do I Bolt On With This Intercooler? If You Think That The Turbo I Picked Out Is Not The One For Me For What I Want Than By All Means Suggest Another One That Will Make Me Happy, This Car Does Have A Turbo Timer (built Into The Alarm System) And A Boost Gauge The Only Other Thing Was Something To Control The Fuel And Since You Guys Both Said Safc I Guess That And Adjustable Boost Sensitive Fuel Pressure Regulator Does Not Do The Trick Reason I'm Asking This Is The Guy (who Happens To Be A Mechanic At The Chrysler Dealership I Work At Said That The Safc Was A Pain That I Would Always Have To Play With It And The Boost Sensitive Regulator With The Injectors And Pump Would Be Fine. I Thought He Was Wrong. Is He? And If I Have To Get The Ecu Upgraded Than I Will I Appreciate All Of Your Input.

 

[BlackbirdOfPrey]

Thanks Scab, As Far As Bird Of Preys Reply I Did Do Some Research On Injectors And Rre Says That Injectors Go By Psi And If I'm Not Running Race Fuel I Don't Need Anything Over 660's, I Don't Plan On Being A Weekend Warrior I Want As Fast Street Car. 3g's Is Not A Drop In The Bucket It's 3g's Because I Want To Do Things Right The First Time And That's Why I'm Asking If There Is Anything I'm Missing, Instead Of Asking What Turbo Do I Bolt On With This Intercooler? If You Think That The Turbo I Picked Out Is Not The One For Me For What I Want Than By All Means Suggest Another One That Will Make Me Happy, This Car Does Have A Turbo Timer (built Into The Alarm System) And A Boost Gauge The Only Other Thing Was Something To Control The Fuel And Since You Guys Both Said Safc I Guess That And Adjustable Boost Sensitive Fuel Pressure Regulator Does Not Do The Trick Reason I'm Asking This Is The Guy (who Happens To Be A Mechanic At The Chrysler Dealership I Work At Said That The Safc Was A Pain That I Would Always Have To Play With It And The Boost Sensitive Regulator With The Injectors And Pump Would Be Fine. I Thought He Was Wrong. Is He? And If I Have To Get The Ecu Upgraded Than I Will I Appreciate All Of Your Input.

You are not reading their chart correct. The starting efficiency range of a Gt-12 is around 23psi. (read the compressor map) To run it on race fuel ONLY you would need 660's, and you wouldn't be able to run it on pump gas WHICH IS LESS EFFICIENT than high octane race fuel. You try to run that on 550s and your IDC will max out at less than 20psi moving 55lbs a minute. You need BIGGER injectors to run pump gas because the gas is lower octane and less efficient THEREFORE you need MORE of it. Most of the time Injectors are chosen as a matter of airflow, NOT pressure. 15psi on a 16g is WAY different than 15psi on a Gt-12. 93-94 octane is standard pump gas Race fuel starts at 100octane. To control injectors larger than 660's you need a DSMLINK otherwise your idle WILL suck. Our ECU's can't reprogram themselves for larger injectors. They are programmed for injectors of a certain size, hence the need for an additional computer to account for the extra 50%+ fuel going into the heads every cycle. The problem is that if you slap a big turbo on, you MUST have the other parts in order for it to work properly, and therefore it is 3k at least (thats my guess). Its not a question of if that turbo is right for you, it is time and supporting mods. You could slap a 60-1 on there and a fatty FMIC, but whats the point if you can't run the turbo to its efficiency?

 

[Jor-el]

Well That Was My Point I Gave You A Laundry List Of Parts Because That Would Be What Is Needed To Run That Turbo. I'm Am Aware That You Can't Just Bolt Things On And Get Crazy. My Question Is If I Get All Of The Above And Correct Injectors And The Socketed Eprom Ecu With The Upgrade And The Dsmlink Will I Be Able To Run That Set Up? Do I Need An Additional Fuel Controller Also Or Will The Pump The Injectors Ecu And The Boost Sensitive Fuel Pressure Regulator Be Enough. What Would You Suggest As A Street Terror Turbo?

 

[BlackbirdOfPrey]

Now we are getting more sensible. Your original post made it sound like you were just going to go from a 14b to a GT-12 overnight, which is a bad idea. If you see some of the items posted, and get those items, you should be in good enough shape to run almost anything. Just remember, time is your friend in this endeavor. As for a street turbo, the GT-12 might be a little overkill. You might be able to get away with it because its a ball bearing, therefore it should spool rather well. Most people use either 16Gs (specifically the Evo3 16G) or 50trims for street turbos. You can run whatever you want on the street, there is no rule that makes a good street turbo. Its just how much lag do you want? If you just want to smoke vettes/stangs/camaros a 16G would suit your needs quite well with all the right mods (not to mention be a hell of a lot cheaper). If you want a BB turbo that isn't as much of a strip turbo (the GT-12 is mostly a track turbo its a 56 trim) look at the GT-10 or something like the GT-30R or FP's 3052. Those are basically ball bearing 50trims. A 50trim is good enough to get people in the 10's with a well built setup and can get you well over 400hp. Just remember, any turbo needs the right supporting mods. Basically the limits are what you want to do, and your checkbook. As for your question about additonal fuel controller, no, if you have the DSM link, your pretty much as covered as you'll ever need to be.

 

[Jor-el]

with the evo 3 turbo would i still need the eprom ecu and the dsm link? i still think it would be a good idea, so if i'm not spending $1200 on the gt12 and i'm now around $580 or so for the evo III 16g then i should get the sbr manifold the flows better than the evo manifold. then i sholud be unrestricted from the head on out now right? now what size injectors w/ the evo? 550? 580? Thanks again for everything oh and by the way thats a pretty cool user name bbop

 

[BlackbirdOfPrey]

If you go with the evo3 your supporting mods don't have to be near as extreme. If you go with an Evo3, you can get away with 550 injectors and a SAFC as opposed to a dsmlink and the EPROM Ecu. The thing with the SAFC is that it has a hard time compensating for injectors bigger than 650,660,680 etc.... The reason being is that the SAFC intercepts the airflow signals going to your ECU and translates them into the something the ECU can use with the larger injectors (therefore is is in essence fooling your ECU into doing what it needs to do). You can only fool your ECU so much before it can't compensate and maintain driveability. You can run 700+ sized injectors with a SAFC but your idle will be weird and such. The SAFC is a lot cheaper than the dsmlink. If you want max tuning ability go with the dsmlink, but most people on 16gs run SAFC's or tune via a MAFT (Gm mass air flow translator). 16gs are the weapon of choice for most people with street cars, spooltime is near stock, and topend is much higher. Again, if your set on the GT-12 by all means go for it, but the 16g will still produce great results. It all depends on your goals. Just type 16g in the search or look up some reviews on the 16g. BTW the name comes from the fact that the exterior of my car is beat to hell (dents galore, fading and crappy looking paint, etc....) for a reason though. Its a sleeper (stock LOOKING exhaust, etc...). I've made a few bucks racing hondas at the track because they looked at my car and wrote it off. Its gonna stay that way for a LONG time, even when my 60-1 goes in.

Edit:Make sure if you buy a 16g is is the true Mitsubishi Heavy Industries(MHI) Evo3 16g. There is a turbo out there called the Evo3 GT. That turbo is a virtual unknown, and possibly just a cheap ripoff that will fail later. Some people have them, but it is very few, and as far as reliability, no one really knows if it will hold up.

 

[Jor-el]

That's Funny That Your Car Is All Beat Up, My 90 Awd Talon Is The Same Way I Spent The Better Part Of The Last 2 1/2 Years Trying To Make Her Mint Hard To Do W/ A 15 Year Old Car. When I Bought Her The Head Was Off Some Backwoods Mechanic Did Not Do The Water Pump Right And When The Guy I Bought Her From Pulled The Head Off There Were 3 Valves Laying On The Pistons, Got Her For 500 Dollars Brand New Tdo5 (i Work At A Chrysler Dealeship And It Was Easier To Make Payments To Work Than Scrap Up The Money For A Better Turbo And The Supporting Cast That Goes Along With It)
Head Set And She Runs Great Slight Miss Think Its A Valve Not Sitting Right But Other Than That I'm Replacing The R/r Caliper (sticks) And The Clutch Master And Slave This Week Do To The Eclipse Being Down Right Now, The Reason I Thought It Was Funny The Exterior Of You Car Is That's Exactly What's Wrong With Mine The Paint Color Is That Black Cherry W/ The Silver Accent On The Stock Bodykit. The Interior Has Been Changed From The Nasty Faded Gray To All Black Panels, Carpet, Headliner And Other Parts Were Trimmed With Silver Paint Look's Freaking Awesome Inside And Then U Look At The Hood And It's Primer Black, Same With The Front Bumper And I Would Cost Like 6k To Paint And Body Work To Make Her The Way I Want. 1g's Drive A Little Diff Than 2g's I Noticed. I Would Miss Her If She Left (contimplating Selling Her Only Got 96k For Miles Runs Great) What Do You Think Keep Her And Pay Off The Last Credit Card Bill Or Keep Her And Have A 90 And A 99.

 

[Jor-el]

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE SBR G50 OR THE EVO 16G AS A STREET TURBO BOTH ARE IN THE 400 WHP RANGE BOTH MOUNT TO THE EVO OR SBR MANIFOLD IF I GO WITH THE G5O GET THE DSM LINK AND SOCKET EPROM ECU ALSO? WHAT INJECTORS FOR THE G50 FIC'S 650'S? TRYING TO NARROW DOWN THE TURBO THAT WILL GIVE ME THE MOST PLEASURE. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP

 

[BlackbirdOfPrey]

The G50 is a standard 50 trim (everyone and their mother makes one AGP,PTE,Slowboy,Bullseye, etc...) but they are good turbos with a lot of growth room. For a G50 (or any other 50 trim) you could get away with 650's alright, but I'd probably go with 700+ just for growth room. Very good street/strip turbo. Spool is full boost around 3800(if I recall correct) A guy from the local dsm club runs a PTE 50 (very similar) and he's in the 11's, and when hes done at the track he drives his car home. You can get the 660's and be fine, but it is possible if you run high enough boost you'd max them out. The 50 trim will get you 400+ hp. The Evo3 at BEST would get you a little more than 350. If you get the G50 a DSMlink would be a good investment. Its good for almost any turbo setup, but not always necissary.