BLOWN MOTOR!! I think

[DJYoshaBYD]

ok... this D***HEAD sold me his very clean 91 tsi AWD.... it was smoking real bad when load was on the motor.. he said it was the turbo's seals and to replace it... he gave me another turbo... so Im outside looking under the hood and I notice that vapor (smoke) comming out of the dipstick and out of the oil cap on the valve cover.... my padre said it was blow-by caused by bad rings (most likely).....

OK... the real question.... what would be easier and more cost effective:

rebuild the bottom end (new rings, bearings, etc..)

or get another 4g63t and swap it in....

 

[Demon5spd]

I just recently did a compression test on my car with around 140,000 on the clock and it was around 140 in all cyclinders

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

thats what I figured... Its the same with my old B16A in my honda..... so its the head gasket too.... oh well.... the rering kit comes with a new head gasket.... it shouldnt take me to long to fix this... hopefully...... I think i would be kosher with the rering kit, new oil pump, and I need to put on the other turbo I have and see if that works.... I might need to buy another turbo as well....

Does anyone know how hard the rebuild is on a turbo?? It looks pretty straight forward

 

[Demon5spd]

The rebuild is pretty straight foward took me about 30 mins once i had the turbo off

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

wow... really?? I might just buy a rebuild kit as well for the turbo im going to put in and change all the seals in that... then I have the motor fixed and no probs with the turbo... how much is the rebuild kit?? like, $100??

are there any links to sites that sell the kit... and are there and links to sites that say how to rebuild the turbo??

 

[t25fury]

i wouldn't think with compression numbers that low that the car would idle fine or the power would feel nice ?

 

[playitlouddsm]

Wait so are you rebuilding the bottom end or the turbo?

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

it idles just fine... drives just fine... its not fast at all... its just a smooth, slow powerband... it doesnt miss on acceleration... its just a slow ride.... it needs a little rebuild... either that or i am getting a used motor.. but the prospect of me rebuilding it sounds better than buying a used motor... thats what I did with this and look what happened

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

doesnt ANYONE READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE REPLYING!?!?!!

I said im going to rebuild the bottom end of the motor, and then rebuild the spare turbo I was going to put in...

 

[TurkF26]

OK.. results of compression test:

Cyl. 1-3=60 psi

cyl. 4 (by tranny?)=30 psi

I squirt some oil in the cylinder and it went up about 13 psi..... but 60 psi is low as hell, isnt it?? I dont know, because I dont have a shop manual....

what should I do and what should I get... im thinking about just getting a rering kit and a head gasket and rebuilding the head a bit...

PPPLLLLEEAAASSSEEE let me know what you think... I know a decent amount about cars and how they work, but this will be my first build without the aid of a seasoned professional (thats how I learned about El Honda)..


thank you very much

So let me get this straight, when you did the compression test, the gauge read 30,60,60,60??? If the compression in your cylinders are REALLY reading that then you have a lot of work ahead of you.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

of course they are "really reading that".... I saw the numbers and Ive done compression tests.... im just confused, is all..... I figure that it needs ALL GASKETS REPLACED, NEW OIL PUMP, PISTON RINGS, HEAD REBUILT(or buy a used head), AND BEARINGS IN BOTTOM END

is this correct?

 

[TurkF26]

of course they are "really reading that".... I saw the numbers and Ive done compression tests.... im just confused, is all..... I figure that it needs ALL GASKETS REPLACED, NEW OIL PUMP, PISTON RINGS, HEAD REBUILT(or buy a used head), AND BEARINGS IN BOTTOM END

Well dont "figure" what it needs, find out 100% what the problem is and fix it. Your biggest mistake is to just throw money at it and hope it fixes your problem.

The reason i asked if it REALLY read that was you stated it drove fine, idled fine, etc.. and if your compression numbers are really at those numbers, your car would not be driving "fine" at all...

Where do you plan on buying your new oil pump, gaskets, etc.. from??? OEM??? aftermarket??? autozone??? If you have the money to totally rebuild everything on that motor than go ahead but i would first try and narrow down the problem rather than replacing and redoing everything.

 

[perley03]

OK.. results of compression test:

Cyl. 1-3=60 psi

cyl. 4 (by tranny?)=30 psi

I squirt some oil in the cylinder and it went up about 13 psi..... but 60 psi is low as hell, isnt it?? I dont know, because I dont have a shop manual....

what should I do and what should I get... im thinking about just getting a rering kit and a head gasket and rebuilding the head a bit...

PPPLLLLEEAAASSSEEE let me know what you think... I know a decent amount about cars and how they work, but this will be my first build without the aid of a seasoned professional (thats how I learned about El Honda)..


thank you very much

To be honest with you, I don't think a car will actually run if all cylinders are running this low on compression. You said that after you added some oil, the pressure only jumped up 13psi? That sounds to me that you don't have ring problems at all, you are loosing compression somewhere's else. Do a leakdown test, and figure out where exactly you are loosing compression. Sounds like a bad headgasket to me, but this is only a guess, since you have not performed a leakdown test yet.
When you did the compression test, did you unplug the MPI relay or fuel pump relay, and held the thottle at WOT, and had a good, charged battery, and the engine was warm? All of the things I just said will lead to a good or bad compression test. Be a little more specific on what you say/ask next time, and you will get good results in the end.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

sorry bro... Im not trying to be an a$$hole.. im just mad...

well.... whaat else could it be.... the car starts.. no problem... drives... no problem.... idels... no problem.... does not stutter on acceleration, just very slow for 195 HP... BBUUUTTTT

MASSIVE AMOUNTS of grayish smoke pours out my exhaust when ever there is load on the engine... the same color smoke comes out of the dipstick and the oil cap hole....

could it just be the head gasket?

 

[TurkF26]

Do a leakdown test and let us know the results. Also does your coolant have oil in it/oil have coolant in it???

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

the car was fully warmed up... no, I did not disable the fuel systems...

Im hoping its just a head gasket....

how do you perform a leakdown test?

 

[perley03]

of course they are "really reading that".... I saw the numbers and Ive done compression tests.... im just confused, is all..... I figure that it needs ALL GASKETS REPLACED, NEW OIL PUMP, PISTON RINGS, HEAD REBUILT(or buy a used head), AND BEARINGS IN BOTTOM END

is this correct?

If you really know how to build an engine, you should not be asking these questions. A person who wants to have a good, lasting engine would not just tear it down, throw in a bunch of parts, and go with it. It's not like building a model or a puzzle, you have to measure and double measure every moving part to see if its within spec, and if its not, then you need to replace that part. You need to check the crank main and rod journals, the rods, the bore on the cylinder to determine if its out of round, the flatness of the block, etc.....there are a huge list of clearences and specs to go by, this is just the beginning.
Seriously, if you do not know what you are doing, please either have someone build the engine for you, such as a reputable engine builder, or have a highly experianced friend help you out, step by step, including the tear down and measuring. If you just slap this together, don't expect the engine to last, and when it breaks, don't bash the name. It's not the engine's fault that it blew up, its operator error.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

ok.. first off... I never said that I was some pro mofo at building motors... but I am more than smart enough to read a shop manual, torque to specs, plastigauge, etc... im just asking for advice.... everyone has to start somewhere right?? im just asking for help from people that know more about motors and internal problems than I do... I want constructive help, no criticism...

 

[TurkF26]

There are plenty of how to's and walk throughs on this website that will tell/show you step by step how to do a leakdown test.

http://www.geocities.com/dsmgrrrl/FAQs/leakdown.htm

hope that helps.

 

[perley03]

ok.. first off... I never said that I was some pro mofo at building motors... but I am more than smart enough to read a shop manual, torque to specs, plastigauge, etc... im just asking for advice.... everyone has to start somewhere right?? im just asking for help from people that know more about motors and internal problems than I do... I want constructive help, no criticism...

No one was criticising you, I was just simply letting you know that there is alot of work involved in building a motor.
As far as a leakdown tester, this is all I could come up within a few minutes.Leak Down Test
Do that, and figure out where you are loosing compression, then post the results.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

ok.. I just went and looked at my oil that was on the oil cap, and it looks milky.... obviously the head gasket is leaking.... im going to do a leak down test...

from the symptoms listed here, is it a head gasket:
low compression test
power loss
smoke comming from dipstick and oil cap
massive smoke out the back

 

[freshlane]

goto ebay for a rebuild kit. they had some deals a week before christmas

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

ummmm... i dont think so.... im not an ebay person.... I found the rering kit for 271 at RPMrons.com and im trying to find a turbo rebuild kit

 

[thjones3]

Sounds like a HG problem for sure. I bet leak down test will be horrible. <waiting for results>

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

yeah... thats what Im guessing....ok.. this is what I found

ReRing kit $271
turbo rebuild kit for 100
I figure I can have the turbo balanced for about 50-60 bucks

that should fix anything that is wrong, and if I need to do head work, i might have a little money left over for a used head or a rebuild

 

[1990talon]

Eiter you have a bad gauge my fist thought you did the test wrong somehow or you made the numbers up to yeild results but if it was all correct then if you put oil in and it only went up that much then you could have a warped head witch means take the head off have it machined buy a new head gasket and some ARP head bolts put it on and call it a day I would assum this to be you problem