Too rich?

[Texaswildman]

I am brand new to these cars, the tuning and turbo stuff is a ton to learn, but bear with me.

The car idles up and own, not a steady idle, is that normal?

Had a friend behind me the other day and when I got on it, black smoke from the tail pipe. Too rich?

The car has a CAI, catback, HKS blow off, and I don't know what else. The turbo appears stock, and I found a reciept for a new engine from last year in the glove box. Is it possible that the previous owner had a bigger turbo with the old engine, blew the old engine, replaced it with a stocker and the old 14b, but left the upgraded fuel pump making too rich?

 

[SpawnedX]

CAI or hard intake pipe ? I know what you mean just busting on you, is it definitely black and not a dark blue smoke? Can you smell a strong fuel smell from your exhaust?

 

[boosteclipse]

Bigger fuel pump w/o an adjustable fpr would cause it to be rich. Best bet is to get a wideband, you will need it on down the road anyway.

 

[Texaswildman]

CAI or hard intake pipe ? I know what you mean just busting on you, is it definitely black and not a dark blue smoke? Can you smell a strong fuel smell from your exhaust?

I can take it, I am sure my terminology from the Charger (dd is an 06 Daytona with heads, cam, 125shot zex) world is probably useless here. Teach me Master Jedi's.

Yeah, friend says black. He said it was pretty steady. I have an a/f on the way, figure that might help. Fuel smell is pretty strong. I am going to get under it when I get off work tonight to check pump (hoping your not about to tell me it is in the tank)
I was thinking if the fuel pump has been upgraded that could be making it rich and I would get the up and down idle that I am seeing?

With the Charger I tune it with a DiabloSport Predator, what do you use to tune these 1gs?

 

[inneed4dsm]

someone WILL correct me if im wrong but i believe the fuel pump is accessible from inside the car just remove the rear seat

 

[SpawnedX]

Up and down idle is usually an air issue, which can cause a rich issue and so on and so on.

The pump is in the tank. /Comfort

If it's a 255lph pump then I would say you can try an AFPR, but don't be fooled by the misconception that you NEED an AFPR because you have a larger pump. It's a myth, the stock FPR is a rising 1 to 1 and if you have 450CC injectors (stock) then you will still only be able to get 450CC performance if you get what I mean.

Honestly, try plugs and wires. I have a local kid here who was running rich on a 16G, had idle issues, plumes of fuel coming out his exhaust and you could just smell fuel from the cabin. He just bought the car with a 16G on it and was breaking up in boost. He replaced the plugs and had the same problem. I asked him if he changed the wires and he told me no, so I grabbed the stock Bosch wires I had from my trunk and plopped them on there, all issues resolved.

 

[Texaswildman]

Up and down idle is usually an air issue, which can cause a rich issue and so on and so on.

The pump is in the tank. /Comfort

If it's a 255lph pump then I would say you can try an AFPR, but don't be fooled by the misconception that you NEED an AFPR because you have a larger pump. It's a myth, the stock FPR is a rising 1 to 1 and if you have 450CC injectors (stock) then you will still only be able to get 450CC performance if you get what I mean.

What is an AFPR? (EDIT, CANCEL THAT Adjustable Fuel Pump Regulator) Is there an acronym page so I can get up to speed.

Honestly, try plugs and wires. I have a local kid here who was running rich on a 16G, had idle issues, plumes of fuel coming out his exhaust and you could just smell fuel from the cabin. He just bought the car with a 16G on it and was breaking up in boost. He replaced the plugs and had the same problem. I asked him if he changed the wires and he told me no, so I grabbed the stock Bosch wires I had from my trunk and plopped them on there, all issues resolved.

Sounds good, I'll try it.

 

[SpawnedX]

Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator

 

[CrazyM]

AFPR is Air Fuel Pressure Regulator

And I'm going with the side of you NEED a AFPR with a bigger pump. I just bought another DSM with Walbro 255 fuel pump in it. I would hit fuel cut as soon as I got into boost. Took it out and put in stock pump. Perfect pull throughout boost.

EDIT: SPAWNEDX beat me to it

 

[Texaswildman]

That's interesting Crazy. I don't know that it has an upgraded fuel pump though. I guess the only way to determine is to pull the backseat and take a look.

I am actually getting another wierd symptom, maybe it's fuel cut. When I am at WOT, in 4th gear, the turbo gets to about 11psi or so, then it starts like a bogging thing. I let off the pedal for a second, then lay back on it, and it goes away. Wierd.

 

[CrazyM]

It literally takes 20 min tops to change the pump in the 1g AWD's so checking it will be super easy.

Fuel cut 'feels like hitting a brick wall' It is extremely noticeable your car will pull then all of a sudden RPMS will still go up and you will accelerate but its like driving Gramma's old station wagon.

 

[92GSXtacy]

The fuel pump on AWD 1g's is accessible via a cover on the floor of the trunk/hatch area on the drivers side. These cars run pretty rich in stock form also, just a FYI.

 

[Texaswildman]

At least there is comfort in that. I just checked around for the AFPR, doesn't look to be a really expensive item.

 

[SpawnedX]

Try plugs and wires. I can provide plenty of cars with a 190 or 255 rewired Walboro still using their stock FPR and not having any issues.

 

[CrazyM]

Try plugs and wires. I can provide plenty of cars with a 190 or 255 rewired Walboro still using their stock FPR and not having any issues.

There is a split percentage of My DSM runs perfect with my stock FPR and my 190\255 Fuel pump. Then there is the my car ran like crap.

Your best bet is Bigger fuel pump needs AFPR. I have heard of many people getting away with 190's without the FPR but in my personal experiences\opinion it is a must have.

Plus if you're going to mod your car, you are going to need one anyways as soon as you start messing with your fuel system.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Do a damn boost leak test!!!

Boost leaks will make you run rich during boost. And will also induce fuel cut sooner than it should be.

And with an HKS BOV, without the recirculating kit, the when you let off the throttle the air is getting dumped into the atmosphere instead of back into the intake stream. This means that you'll run rich right after you let off the throttle. This is because the MAF sensor has already registered this air count and injects the fuel it thinks is getting to the engine. Then, when that air gets dumped to the atmosphere it still injects the same amount of fuel so the air that actually gets to the cylinders is less and therefore you'll run rich. The BOV could also suck in air at idle, making you run lean causing a poor idle since the air was not seen by the maf.

Also, here is a link to the VFAQ pages on how to do stuff on these cars:
http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html

And here's the one on how to do a fuel pump:
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/pump-WB-1GAWD2-print.html

 

[Texaswildman]

I like it. You're a little angry, but I like the info. Ok, so I went to the site, couldn't find how to do a damn boost leak test.

Also, I am taking it that if this damn BOV ends up sucking in air at idle I have a bad damn BOV?
busting your balls, thanks for the info...but seriously what about the above questions. damn it.

Do a damn boost leak test!!!

Boost leaks will make you run rich during boost. And will also induce fuel cut sooner than it should be.

And with an HKS BOV, without the recirculating kit, the when you let off the throttle the air is getting dumped into the atmosphere instead of back into the intake stream. This means that you'll run rich right after you let off the throttle. This is because the MAF sensor has already registered this air count and injects the fuel it thinks is getting to the engine. Then, when that air gets dumped to the atmosphere it still injects the same amount of fuel so the air that actually gets to the cylinders is less and therefore you'll run rich. The BOV could also suck in air at idle, making you run lean causing a poor idle since the air was not seen by the maf.

Also, here is a link to the VFAQ pages on how to do stuff on these cars:
Visual Frequently Answered Questions - Home Page

And here's the one on how to do a fuel pump:
Walbro 1G fuel pump kit install

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Sorry, I'm not angry. It's just most of the time people run rich in boost people suggest doing a BLT "Boost Leak Test". There is tons of information on this site. And if you use the search feature to search for "boost leak test" you'll get tons of info.

Here's one of the results. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...se-troubleshoot-boost-leak-tester-merged.html

No, you probably don't have a bad BOV it's just how they work. The stock valve is actually called a CBV or "Compressor Bypass Valve". This means that there is air that is being bypassed from the compressor of the turbo. This is to relieve excess pressure when you let off the throttle and the other side of this thing is during idle there is vacuum applied to the diaphram of the CBV and it opens also bypassing air before the turbo but this time it's sucking in air since there is no excess pressure to relieve.

Now, get to it!!! DAMN IT!!!!

 

[Texaswildman]

Wanted to follow up on this cause I hate it when people start sh!t and don't follow up. I swapped new plugs and wires, still rich. I then bought a boost leak tester off of ebay, worked great, ended up with more leaks than I could stand. All intercooler related. Fixed them and all good.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

All good as in not too rich anymore? If so, you can mark this thread as "resolved" due to boost leak.

 

[Texaswildman]

Ha, yeah, thought you might like that. Thanks again.

 

[uhlmanjoy91]

You will only hit fuel cut if you don't have enough fuel... I would say you just had a bad pump.

 

[Slightlystoopod]

Grave Dig

 

[93TSiguy]

Ha i wonder if this kid still has this car... we all know 1g's only stay in 1 owners hands for so many years