Too much shaft play?

[EagleTalonTim]

Hello all once again! I have had a string of bad luck the past few days and now I am thinking it just got worse...

I have an EVO III 16g which is maybe a year old bought brand new from a known DSM part vendor. Recently, I had found a bad exhaust leak between the manifold and the head as well as a small one between the turbo and the manifold. When I went to take it apart, all 4 ARP SS turbo to manifold bolts broke off into the turbo. I tried to EZ-out one of them and broke the EZ-out off into the bolt. In order to take the housing to a machine shop, I decided to remove the exhaust side of the turbo to save on taking the whole turbo out. Once it was all removed, I checked the turbo for shaft play and sure enough, there is some. The in and out play is about 1/16" and the side to side is about 1/16". If I am not mistaken, that turbo is fixing to go... Could someone verify that for me? If so, why did it die so fast? It still pulls strong and the compressor blades are not hitting anything.

 

[JusMX141]

Any in/out (thrust) play is bad- it needs rebuilt for sure. You have a very small window there before the compressor wheel rubs the housing.

I'd say roughly 90% of the thrust plate wear I've seen on customer turbos used on daily drivers at boost levels under 20psi was a result of some rogue piece of metal in the oil supply which blocked the tiny oiling hole to the thrust plate.

Thrust failures on OEM turbos have everything to do with oiling and nothing to do with the turbo itself. An OEM turbo shouldn't develop thrust issues until you start running lots of boost or swap to giant compressor wheel.

 

[4Lurker4]

Any in/out (thrust) play is bad- it needs rebuilt for sure. You have a very small window there before the compressor wheel rubs the housing.

I'd say roughly 90% of the thrust plate wear I've seen on customer turbos used on daily drivers at boost levels under 20psi was a result of some rogue piece of metal in the oil supply which blocked the tiny oiling hole to the thrust plate.

Out of curiosity, because I have one that needs rebuilding as well (in and out play) can it still be used for simple idling (which I do to keep things running when it's stored during winter) without causing damage? No boost, just idling for 5-10min to get her internals a good shake down as she hibernates (each time the engine fuse is pulled out to get oil going before the engine is started).

 

[turboglenn]

yea, any in-out other than only microscopic feel of an oil film thicknes is too much in and out play (except on ball bearing turbos which have a lot more play than JB units in all directions)

Side to side you can get away with a little but if the wheel can contact the housing on either end it's too much at that point.. but yea, ANY in-out and she needs a rebuild bud.. lucky for you it's an easy task, although the MHI ones are a pain in getting the thrust plate behind the comp wheel out sometimes turbos are fairly easy to rebuild, but knowing what to look for in means of wear and what to do about it.

forgot to hit reply back before anyone had replied , but yea you can idle it for winter upkeep, the damage to the turbo is done, and there won't be wear from idling enough to get more metal in your oil, anything that's already there should be caught in the filter by now as well, i'd say yo'd be ok to idle/run them to keep them going through the winter

i've seen people drive on bad turbos untill the wheels hit thehousings and come apart

 

[4Lurker4]

forgot to hit reply back before anyone had replied , but yea you can idle it for winter upkeep, the damage to the turbo is done, and there won't be wear from idling enough to get more metal in your oil, anything that's already there should be caught in the filter by now as well, i'd say yo'd be ok to idle/run them to keep them going through the winter

i've seen people drive on bad turbos untill the wheels hit thehousings and come apart

Thanks! Yeah it hasn't caused damage to the housing or blade yet (no metal shavings, I was doing routine checks and a month later it had in/out), but I definitely have some in and out, just don't feel like changing it right now since it's not being boosted. Nice to know, always wondered but never had a definite answer. She'll get a new one soon enough

 

[blackrosenova40]

Or running a more aggresive blow off valve.

Any in/out (thrust) play is bad- it needs rebuilt
for sure. You have a very small window there before the compressor wheel rubs the housing.

I'd say roughly 90% of the thrust plate wear I've seen on customer turbos used on daily drivers at boost levels under 20psi was a result of some rogue piece of metal in the oil supply which blocked the tiny oiling hole to the thrust plate.

Thrust failures on OEM turbos have everything to do with oiling and nothing to do with the turbo itself. An OEM turbo shouldn't develop thrust issues until you start running lots of boost or swap to giant compressor wheel.

 

[red1993gsallmt]

yea, any in-out other than only microscopic feel of an oil film thicknes is too much in and out play (except on ball bearing turbos which have a lot more play than JB units in all directions)

Side to side you can get away with a little but if the wheel can contact the housing on either end it's too much at that point.. but yea, ANY in-out and she needs a rebuild bud.. lucky for you it's an easy task, although the MHI ones are a pain in getting the thrust plate behind the comp wheel out sometimes turbos are fairly easy to rebuild, but knowing what to look for in means of wear and what to do about it.

forgot to hit reply back before anyone had replied , but yea you can idle it for winter upkeep, the damage to the turbo is done, and there won't be wear from idling enough to get more metal in your oil, anything that's already there should be caught in the filter by now as well, i'd say yo'd be ok to idle/run them to keep them going through the winter

i've seen people drive on bad turbos untill the wheels hit thehousings and come apart

Oh, I always thought ball bearing turbos had no play because the clearences were so tight which is also why I thought they needed so little oil. Guess I was wrong

 

[Jon91TSi]

Oh, I always thought ball bearing turbos had no play because the clearences were so tight which is also why I thought they needed so little oil. Guess I was wrong

My ball bearing 6262 has very little in and out and very little side to side, when I say little I mean miniscule. It is present however and has been since day one. Radial and axial play are completely normal in ball bearing turbos (to a certain extent), you will know when something is wrong though, .