Thoughts on a new turbo?

[dsm-onster]

Right. There's no paper with a holset, friend. You have to go off of what the herd has seen work. You're one in about 1000.

The "paper" is wrong with my 60-1. It's blown and gone with the wind. I'm probably 1 in about 1000 too . It's all good.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

You're right it was not a good tune. Actually not any calibration at all yet. GM3bar sensor is logged. Look at the actual boost. 20psi by 3900rpms. Here's the data exported to text:

Timestamp (us),RPM (rpm),AirFlow (lb/min),GM3Bar (-inHg/+psi)
0,3505,7.7,1.1
58396,3482,7.8,1.3
114816,3482,7.8,1.4
172212,3498,8.0,1.6
230032,3518,8.1,1.6
287028,3501,8.2,1.8
344436,3524,8.5,2.0
401844,3531,8.8,2.3
460144,3531,8.9,3.0
516660,3534,9.1,3.0
574068,3544,9.4,3.2
631476,3561,9.5,3.6
688884,3575,9.6,3.9
747252,3565,9.8,3.8
803712,3589,10.1,3.9
861108,3568,10.3,4.7
918844,3623,10.7,4.8
975928,3602,10.7,5.0
1033332,3606,10.9,5.6
1090744,3641,11.3,5.4
1148148,3630,11.5,5.9
1205556,3644,11.7,5.9
1262964,3637,12.0,6.6
1320372,3637,12.2,6.6
1377792,3680,12.6,7.3
1435188,3695,12.9,7.5
1492600,3662,13.2,8.1
1550008,3713,13.6,8.8
1607424,3713,14.0,8.6
1664820,3724,14.4,9.1
1722228,3746,14.9,9.7
1780552,3717,15.1,10.2
1837044,3792,16.0,10.8
1894452,3765,16.2,11.3
1952236,3788,16.7,12.2
2009272,3796,17.3,11.8
2066676,3796,17.6,13.1
2124084,3827,18.4,14.0
2181492,3842,19.2,14.7
2238900,3854,20.0,15.4
2296312,3870,20.7,16.3
2353728,3878,21.6,17.2
2411124,3890,22.3,18.3
2468588,3898,23.2,18.6
2525940,3935,24.1,19.9
2583348,3956,24.9,21.0
2640760,3960,25.4,21.3
2698648,3981,25.8,21.3
2755632,4019,26.2,22.2
2812984,4041,26.7,23.1
2870580,4045,26.9,23.3
2927796,4050,26.9,24.0
2985436,4085,27.3,23.7
3042612,4094,27.6,24.0
3100020,4125,27.8,24.0
3157428,4112,27.7,24.4
3214836,4167,28.1,24.4
3272248,4199,28.2,24.2
3329652,4162,28.0,24.9
3387060,4237,28.4,24.2
3444508,4247,28.6,24.7
3502148,4266,28.8,24.0
3559296,4291,29.1,24.2
3617056,4320,29.3,24.7
3674120,4315,29.5,24.7
3731520,4376,29.9,24.0
3789588,4401,30.1,24.0
3846324,4407,30.4,24.2
3903744,4459,30.9,24.2
3961140,4438,31.1,24.7
4018552,4475,31.5,25.1
4075956,4475,31.4,25.1
4133552,4502,31.7,25.1
4190824,4562,32.1,24.7
4248180,4568,32.3,24.6
4305588,4601,32.6,24.7
4364068,4613,32.9,25.3
4420404,4624,33.1,25.1
4477924,4630,32.9,24.9
4535788,4693,33.4,24.4
4592632,4699,33.3,25.1
4650036,4670,33.2,24.9
4707444,4717,33.7,25.4
4765240,4777,34.4,25.4
4822288,4759,34.3,25.3
4879668,4789,35.0,25.4
4937588,4826,35.4,25.4
4994496,4851,35.6,25.3
5052380,4876,35.7,25.1
5109304,4915,36.7,25.3
5166708,4934,36.8,25.4
5224120,4908,36.7,25.3
5281524,4987,37.2,25.8
5338944,4967,36.6,25.8
5396340,5020,37.0,26.0
5453748,5034,37.2,25.1
5511156,5027,37.0,25.6
5568620,5102,37.6,25.4
5625984,5061,37.5,26.0
5683560,5109,37.8,24.9
5740824,5137,38.3,26.0
5798196,5137,38.2,25.4
5855604,5194,38.9,25.4
5913156,5172,38.9,26.2
5970808,5252,39.5,25.8
6028028,5252,39.6,25.6
6085248,5237,39.7,26.0
6142656,5252,40.0,26.2
6200052,5312,40.5,26.2
6257796,5334,40.4,26.9
6314872,5403,41.0,25.6
6372652,5380,41.1,26.2
6429696,5403,41.4,26.5
6487116,5411,41.5,26.0
6544552,5466,42.3,26.3
6602432,5443,42.4,26.0
6660036,5523,43.0,25.8
6717268,5515,42.9,26.3
6774484,5523,43.3,26.5
6831540,5531,43.2,26.3
6888952,5547,43.3,27.2
6947320,5589,43.7,26.3
7003768,5648,44.3,26.9
7061184,5605,44.1,27.1
7118584,5656,44.6,26.5
7176648,5716,45.0,26.3
7234556,5725,45.2,27.1
7290844,5699,45.2,27.2
7348252,5734,45.5,27.1
7405664,5760,45.8,26.5
7463080,5787,46.1,26.5
7520476,5769,45.8,26.5
7578992,5796,46.2,27.1
7635820,5859,46.9,27.2
7692712,5814,46.3,26.7
7750108,5832,46.6,27.1
7807548,5850,47.0,26.9
7865880,5878,47.3,27.1
7922392,5962,48.1,27.1
7979808,5962,47.8,26.5
8037744,5990,48.1,26.9
8094612,5934,47.9,27.6
8153076,5971,48.4,27.1
8209432,6029,49.0,27.2
8267672,6058,49.2,27.6
8324672,6058,48.9,27.1
8381652,6078,49.2,26.9
8439064,6058,49.0,26.7
8497008,6107,48.7,27.6
8553876,6148,49.7,27.6
8612104,6219,50.3,27.2
8668704,6260,50.1,27.1
8726224,6178,49.9,27.4
8783512,6168,49.8,27.2
8840920,6198,50.1,28.1
8898328,6250,50.1,26.9
8955784,6250,50.0,27.8
9013140,6219,49.8,27.2
9070552,6271,49.8,27.1
9127956,6313,50.6,28.1
9185756,6399,51.0,26.5
9242776,6432,30.0,22.2

Full boost was set at 25ish psi, creaping to 28 psi.

Too much lag for your 2.0 ??? The larger .70 a/r bep housing sees 20+psi about 4400rpms with 272-style cams.


BTW the boostest is only off by 2psi at 5K. The boostest number assumes 100% VE which for the stock intake manifold lies at around 5-5500rpms. You can only calibrate your maf with that rpm point with boost est. If you try to match boost and boostest for any rpm points after, then your maf hertz number the ecu will use will be lower than actual causing more lean than your fuel adjustments alone would render.

Understood

As far as lag is concerned, i was comparing my mitsu bolt on 35r, to a 4088 t4 . That was the step i took, so from what i've heard about the .70ar t3 housing, full boost around 4400 is not only what im seeing now, but about 1000rpm sooner than the 40

I think im going to try to find a place i can get an hx40 new

 

[JusMX141]

I have a new 6-blade HX40 that I was going to run before I got the deal on my 7-blade one. You could practically drive to my shop in 15 minutes from Latrobe.

 

[dsm-onster]

Understood

As far as lag is concerned, i was comparing my mitsu bolt on 35r, to a 4088 t4 . That was the step i took, so from what i've heard about the .70ar t3 housing, full boost around 4400 is not only what im seeing now, but about 1000rpm sooner than the 40

I think im going to try to find a place i can get an hx40 new

So now I'm lost . Full boost around 4400rpms is 'not about 1000rpms sooner than the 40'. . . The bolton 40 and the .70 a/r 40 are about 400rpms apart from each other WRT spool as verified in the holset threads.

My point the hx40 in the .55 a/r (small bolton housing) has done 650whp. . . So what can the larger t3 housing can do? Which is much larger than the FP bolton housing or .63 a/r garrett housing. You won't lose but about 400rpms in spool speed. It's an incredible turbo with this housing. And it's a good choice that you made.

I hope that you arn't comparing turbine spool speed across brands with a particular turbine housing. You'll get no where doing that. . .

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

So now I'm lost . Full boost around 4400rpms is 'not about 1000rpms sooner than the 40'. . . The bolton 40 and the .70 a/r 40 are about 400rpms apart from each other WRT spool.

Full boost at 4400 rpm on the hx and my mitus bolt on 35 (scm6152) is about 1000 rpms sooner than the 4088.

Lol thats what i meant


And Jus, where's your shop?

 

[dsm-onster]

Lol thats what i meant

Jeez, thanx. gt40 not hx40. I'm ready for the new year! Sorry .

 

[JusMX141]

And Jus, where's your shop?

Business Route 66 North, about 2 miles South of Delmont; 5 miles North of Downtown Greensburg.

You can always stop by and check it out if nothing else....see what all the hype's about. I have a 6152E here torn down for wheel size comparison.

 

[JOEY A]

scM6152, a little bit different . If i wanted to spend 1600 dollars on an hta id buy a t04z from hks just to have the bragging rights.
Maybe im thinking the HTA is more comparable to the to4r p trim...oh well...figured id edit this before i get corrected

I was just asking about the s258 bc its got a much better flow capacity than the SCM6152 that i resorted back to using now, and almost has the same flow i THINK that the laggy 4088 i have has. All i know about the turbo is its like 1200 bucks, rebuildable, and good for like 650hp....is anyone using one? I wanted opinions on this turbo since the only real comments im getting about it are in the srt forums.

Notice not even the big name shops are running the over priced fancy HKS turbos, and theres are reason for it.

 

[toofast82]

ds-monster- im curious, what size line are you oiling with at the head? It could be possibly i wasnt using a large enough line? The one on my friends ram is pretty thick

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

Notice not even the big name shops are running the over priced fancy HKS turbos, and theres are reason for it.

i was being facetious, but i wouldnt buy a 35r with options you could put together yourself and have the same results for hundreds less.

I understand a reputable company is a reputable company, but money is money and if you can get something that works almost the exact same for less...well there ya go

 

[Wicked95AWD]

I am currently running all the mods in my profile except for the turbo i have listed. I was running a gt4088 on my stock 7 for about a week before i realized its not as fun as i expected. Its exceptionally laggy for my 2.0 and was wondering what experience people have had with the BW s258. I ran across a video on youtube and it got me to research it a little bit more and from what i gather its got 650hp potential but super fast spool and great performance all around. Just wondering how many people have this unit and if they would suggest it? I wont really lose out on much bc i made my manifold and downpipe but its t4 flanged so possibly replacing it with a t3 is an option. It just looks like the extended tip option is pure sex in more ways than one

Hmm.. it sounds like your looking for 16g spool and 650whp out of a 2.0. Anything is possible, but it’s probably not gonna happen. Long story short, you have very little displacement so turbo lag is hard to avoid if your shooting for big power. A divided T4 mani and hotside should improve spool and part throttle response over a single scroll T4 and it should allow you to make much more power than a restrictive Mitsu mani and hotside. You will probably be tapped out around 600whp with most turbos that hang off of a Mitsu manifold on a 2.0 unless you use a lopsided turbo with a big laggy compressor(FP DSM88=$1700). If you had a 2.3 or 2.4l then the 4088r, HX40 pro, or s362 would probably all spool great and get you to your power goal easily. However, since you are working with a smaller engine you should alleviate some of the power restriction of the mitsu hotside with your larger T4 manifold, but you will still sacrifice spool time and driveability in exchange for more flow and power. The only way to increase flow and keep your car's "fun to drive factor" is to increase volumetric efficiency and separate the exhaust pulses from your engine, hence the reason so many large turbos are sold with twin scroll hotsides by default. Lots of EVO guys are into the 10's with the HTA35R ($1,700) but they aren’t stuck with the restrictive bolt on DSM mani and turbine housing. If you have the funds, a twin-scroll T3 mani ($900?) paired with a TS 35Rr ($1,600) would probably allow you to have your cake and eat it too (650whp plus excellent spool and part throttle response),however, it will be a very expensive setup. Twin-scroll T4 manifolds can be found for prices similar to their single scroll T3 counterparts (around 400 bucks) and there seems to be a much broader selection of high hp turbos available that bolt onto a T4 flange, not to mention that most T4 housings are available with a nice v-band outlet. A ts T4 mani paired with a BW S300sx ($995) or a rebuilt Holset hx35/40 ($400-$700) with billet 7blade (HTA) wheel and a well suited (.82-.96 A/R) divided hotside would probably produce very similar results compared to a TS 35r or single scroll HTA35R for a fraction of the price. Also, the dual bb garretts should provide better transient response than journal bearing turbos (but if your using NLTS it doesn't matter), but when a bb turbo breaks your gonna be out another 1,700 bucks for a new one as opposed to rebuilding a BW or Holset for 300 bucks. I’m currently bolting up a billet 7 blade .60mm HX40 pro to my car with a 19cm (T4) ts hotside and a twin-scroll T4 mani. If all my research for this setup is correct I should wind up with a near 700whp street car that’s still very fun to drive. The best part is, I only spent $800 for the turbo and manifold combined. Of course, I have the benefit of an extra 20% displacement over the stock 2.0 engine. Regardless which one you choose, most of the turbos listed so far in this thread are good choices, it all boils down to personal preference and how much money you are willing to spend.