The Big ROD thread!

[Street Surgeon]

Found the article in the Modified Magazine, this is what they say, and AMS is tuning the car soooo...

They were using...
Ross pistons
Eagle Rods

The ross pistons weigh in at 338grams compared to the stock 341s... fyi.


Modified on Eagle rods... "December '04 issue"

"We've pushed these rods to over 800hp with nitrous and have had no problems. The rods are lightweight and come with ARP hardware out of the box."

As used in their EVOVIII

"We progressively stepped up the boost to 38psi and turned in 667whp and 536lb-ft of torque"

Also found this online. I bought a set for myself but I'm only planning on hitting 450ish, and then later maybe scratching into the 5s? Should be more than fine. I guess the main thing is making sure whoever is building your motor checks the rods and makes sure that they're good to go? Also, the reason they're so "economical" *read cheap* is because they're forged in China and then sent here to be spec'd out.

All Eagle "ESP" Connecting Rods are manufactured from a TWO-PIECE FORGING. The forging process forces the grain into the shape of a connecting rod, resulting in a superior fatigue life. The rod cap is forged separately so that the grain runs perpendicular to the load forces, which strengthens the connecting rod. Many aftermarket connecting rods are manufactured from 4340 steel. 4340 specs allow a range of different materials to achieve the desired results. Although it is a more expensive process, all Eagle "ESP" 3-D connecting rods also include higher content of nickel & chrome, which increases the strength & fatigue life without making the connecting rod brittle.

Extensive testing has proven Eagle's two-piece forging superior to any one-piece forging on the market! All Eagle "ESP" Rods are clearly identified. Proper rod bolt torque is vital to connecting rod life. A rod bolt fastner is without question the highest stressed fastener in the engine. The big end bore of the connecting rod is a stressed bore in much the same way as cylinders are on a block. It is equally important to torque properly to provide proper strength & to insure the big end of the rod sizing is correct. Improper torque will result in premature rod failure!

Beware of connecting rods that do not include torque specifications.

Eagle "ESP" H Beam Connecting Rods Feature:

* First connecting rod manufacturer to machine on the state-of-the-art Sunnen Krossgrinding™ System to hold extremely tight tolerances! Center to center length +/- .001 Big End Barrel / Bellmouthing +/- .0002 Big End Bore +/- .0002 -- Pin end bore +/- .0002
* Stroker Design provides cam clearance for 3.800 on small block Chevy engines with no modification. Stroker design provides cam clearance for 4.250 on big block Chevy engines with no modification.
* Weight savings between 30-70 grams (depending on rod length).
* Reduce balancing cost! Larger stroke applications can see savings of $100.00 to $200.00 on balancing cost alone!
* Over 80 different rods available for popular Chevrolet, Chrysler, Ford, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, AMC, Nissan, Acura, Honda and Toyota engines!
* All Eagle "ESP" connecting rods are available individulally or in sets. Please specify weights on individual rod purchases.
* 3-D Design offers the advantages of reduced weight without sacrificing any of our original rod's strength, offering maximum strength to weight ratio.
* 2-Piece forging for increased strength.
* Ready to run, installation instruction and bolt lubricant included.
* ARP 7/16" 8740 Capscrew bolts standard (190,000 psi) unless otherwise noted. Optional ARP 2000 (230,000 psi) and ARP L-19 (265,000 psi) bolts for extreme horsepower applications. L-19 bolts are recommended for small block engines exceeding 700 horsepower and big block engines exceeding 850 horsepower.
* Silicon bronze bushings for floating piston pins.
* Multi-stage heat treated.
* Packaged in weight matched sets end to end +/- 1 gram.
* Certified 4340 steel, vacuum degassed to remove impurities.
* Each forging is X-rayed, sonic tested and magnafluxed to insure quality.
* All surfaces are 100% machined.
* Shot peened to stress relieve the metal.
* Precision alignment sleeves positively locate the rod cap, maintaining big end bore size and eliminating cap walk.
* Eagle "ESP" Connecting Rods provide the strength and durability required in unlimited engines at a sportman rod price.
* All Eagle "ESP" Small Block Chevrolet Rods now feature a .050 shorter bolt head for increased block clearance!
* Forged in China.
* Sized and finished in the United States.

 

[NDgsx]

Suparata i dont mean to put anyone down but if people dont try different things and share what they have experienced can you imagine the forum with everone saying WOW! my car has 179kw same as yours!

Our reciprocating weight is not as large as V8s. We're talking in the 290-390 gram range for pistons. The force is not nearly as large on our motors, no halfway decent rod will go .001" OOR in these motors. Also most of the piston designs don't take advantage of the quench pads in the heads and hardly anyone seems to run even close to tight squish clearance (we're talking over .04 for most of these guys), so there's not much point.

 

[MNGSX]

You can find pros. cons and faults in any of the rods.

Crowers are a 1piece forging.. not a two piece.. some tolerances are better but the cap is just CNC plasma cut from the main casting and does not have the same grain structure as two piece forgings.

Pauters are overbuilt for most part and very very heavy... You build and engine that requires that strong of a rod and it is usually the type that could run aluminum rods instead because those are the kind of cars you are running against if you think you need a rod that strong and are right.


The eagles are said to have tolerance variances etc... etc... Unless you have first hand knowledge of more than one rod or have talked to someone without a predisposition take everything with a grain of salt...

You can nit pick any of them...

Options are growign now there are SCATs, Carillos. GRP (not just aluminum), groden, manley and probably a couple others not including custom rods...

I think the eagles or the scats will be just fine for most people.. Machine shop, assembly and tuning issues are what get DSMers...

 

[na90dsm]

i definately agree with the tuning and machine shop getting dsmers. seem i read more and more abtou peopel who got bad machine work done and there motor is toast after a few months.

 

[DJpowerHaus]

Are there differences of any kind between turbo and non turbo rods in a 1G... how about 4G64, G4CS rods. They might all fit on the same crank, but did they all come out of the same bin? Seems sort of strange that the Evo3, GVR4 would get the same strength rods as a 2.4L Mightymax pickup truck.

 

[blue1]

NDGSX i got your point! resiprocating weight will have a lot to do with ovality!(sorry to many years with V8's)
DJ powerhaus there is a difference they use in manufacture it is rated in tonnage of the steel. different bins as you call it! why would a manufacturer spend more than what they have too! if it is a light duty engine compared to a servere duty engine, its all in the costs of engineering! 50 ton steel against 70ton steel? GM do this and i sure all other manufacturers do it too!
I am using a set of 1G rods, narrowed, shotpeened,ARP bolts on a 2.4 hybrid i will keep every posted i am going for the 600 whp mark!

 

[jspec]

Great read and back from the Dead

 

[Jon Lane]

The eagles looks much better than the scat rods. Eagle has been making a good rod for the 4g63 for a long time.

SCAT?

Cmon name one 10 second dsm with scat rods... There have been 8 second dsm's with eagle rods.

SCAT are out of Eagle's league. I suggest doubters take a long look at SCAT's site. They make US iron for virtually anything raced, and their 4G63 rod has (or had) superior tolerances than Eagle when Eagle come in tweaked. Other than that, they're virtually interchangable.

 

[NewTurboTuner]

Hey PrimedTsi
....so do you still have the Eagle Rods? ....making 1000hp?

I'm having trouble picking out a Rod that I like. The price jump is so big between Rods. I'm not the kind of person that buys skimpy parts, but I don't want to over build (over $pend) either because I'm on a budget.

I look at Eagle Rods and the price is nice, but they are rated at 600hp. That dosent seem like much of an upgrade over 1G big rods. I already make 500whp = 560ish Crank HP, on my stock internal motor. (I estimate 500whp, because I trap 130mph quarters). So buying a 600hp rated Rod dosent seem like enough of an upgrade to justify spending the money.

I'd like my motor to hold 650-700whp. Does that mean I have no choice but to buy the best Rods available? I will buy the best if that is what I need, but if I dont have to buy $700+ Rods, then I'll gladly save my money and buy whatever will work.

Any advice from you guys making over 500-600whp would be nice.
I've never had to pick out rods/pistons before, and I'm kinda stumped.

 

[NewTurboTuner]

In the end I guess I don't know exactly how much HP I want (maybe shoot for the L337 1000hp), but I DO know NOTHING lower than 600whp. So I guess that leaves me looking at Crower, Oliver, and Magnus Rods.

Does anyone have any personal experience or thoughts about Magnus Rods. Magnus builds great motors so I have to assume these are bad ass, but I can't think of anyone who runs them (besides the Magnus sponsored cars).

What about weight?
Its good to keep weight down, but if I'm looking for a 700+whp high revving Rod....
...Do I simply go with the strongest Rod I can find (regardless of weight)?
...Or should I continue to factor weight into my search?

thx!

 

[projecTSI]

Hey, just wanted to let you know that Eagle's are not rated for 600hp anymore. That was a very conservative rating, and the rating has been changed to 900hp. Thought it might help you in your rod decision. I will try to find some links to back it up.

 

[projecTSI]

Here is a link to the pdf files from Eagle. Check out page 8, it says these rods a good choice for engines up to 900hp.

http://www.eaglerod.com/Honda_end.pdf

 

[NewTurboTuner]

Thanks, but that is a little bit different.
Those are V8 rods, and 850hp in a V8 is about 106HP per Rod.
....With a 850HP 4cyl, our rods would have to withstand twice as much abuse.

For our cars I still see the same 600hp rating everywhere I look

 

[Street Surgeon]

Thanks, but that is a little bit different.
Those are V8 rods, and 850hp in a V8 is about 106HP per Rod.
....With a 850HP 4cyl, our rods would have to withstand twice as much abuse.

For our cars I still see the same 600hp rating everywhere I look

Click the thumbnail below, and take a closer look bud

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[projecTSI]

^^^^What he said

 

[NewTurboTuner]

Here is a link to the pdf files from Eagle. Check out page 8, it says these rods a good choice for engines up to 900hp.

http://www.eaglerod.com/Honda_end.pdf

^^^^What he said

Haha yeah the info on pages 6 & 8 are a little different

Thats good news, but I'd like to know what the reason is for the 33% increase in holding power. Thats a big increase. Does Eagle make the Rods differently now, or did they just decide to increase their HP rating? When did the HP rating change?

I've heard that Eagle Rods were under rated, but I've also heard of them failing at 500-600whp too .....I dont know if its just me, but I feel a little skeptical of this new 900hp rating ...especially if they don't give a reason why the rating was increased.

I'll Email Eagle and find out. I'll post my finding

Thanks guys

 

[Street Surgeon]

Any rod can fail at xxx hp, it depends on the tune and other various factors! Eagle's are cheap because they're forged overseas and then spec'd when they get here. When you get a set of eagle's installed it usually costs a tad more because the machinist usually has to modify them juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust a hair to ensure they're matched perfectly.

 

[Big Woo]

98% of connecting rod failures can be directly traced back to one of two root causes.

1: bearing / oil pressure and or volume problem.
2: vibration due to harmonics, preignition, detonation, or resonant frequencies.

 

[jstgon]

So I am going with a set of big rods mounted to my 95 pistons, and was wondering IF I needed to get them machined to pit on to the crank or not? My setup is a evo II hopefully pushing up the boost to around 20 tops. 680 injectors and a safc 2 or maf translator. Anything else I should do or know?

 

[nc90awd]

eagle rates there h-beam rods for 600hp for 4 cyl and 900hp for v8 applications.

 

[NewTurboTuner]

eagle rates there h-beam rods for 600hp for 4 cyl and 900hp for v8 applications.

Thats what I thought, but their PDF brochures says differently.
I sent Eagle an Email this mourning.

Hi
I'm looking to buy some Rods/Crank for my Mitsubishi 4G63 Motor. I'm considering Eagle Products, but I have a few questions about HP ratings.

I'd like my motor to reliably handle 700 Wheel HP.
At first I did not consider Eagle Rods, because I've only seen them rated up to 600hp. But I've recently been pointed toward your PDF file that states you Rods are rated up to 900HP, and I'd like to ask some questions regarding this.

When did the HP rating change?
A 33% increase in holding power is big.... What makes the increased holding power possible?
Does Eagle make the Rods differently now, from when they were only rated at 600hp?
I've heard that the 600HP rating was under rated.... Is the new 900HP rating simply a corrected rating?

Mainly I'd just like to know why, or how this new 900HP rating came about

Thanks in advance for you time ....I appreciate it!
~Steve Bailey

Hopefully they'll get back with those answers soon, and I'll let you all know.

 

[NewTurboTuner]

Sooo... its been a week and Eagle has not gotten back to me. I sent two emails to them ([email protected]) The one you see above, and anther email simply stating that I had a few questions about their products, and asking where would be the best place for me to find out some info ....I havent received replies for either of my emails.

....I wont be buying Eagle products

 

[jspec]

Try calling them. I just ordered a single rod from them. I spent at least 20 minutes on the phone with the tech talking about my engine. He was very informative. Just pick up the phone man! 662-796-7373

 

[Tony90TSI]

Thats what I thought, but their PDF brochures says differently.
I sent Eagle an Email this mourning.

Hopefully they'll get back with those answers soon, and I'll let you all know.

I had a set of eagle rods but sold them to a friend in town who is now having issues with them. So i am glad i got rid of them. By the way it would be a 50% increase since the original is 600.

 

[twicks69]

oh well...my eagle's are holding up just fine with 9 second passes. Have had no problems with them in the last 30+ thousand miles, two race seasons, 150+ dyno pulls, 150+ track passes, 42+psi, etc.

It is in the tune, and the engine build.