The Big ROD thread!

[Talon007]

1g rod 2g piston is capable of 500 crank HP - a local guy here has had several motors with this combo and all have exceeded the 400+ hp mark at the wheels.

Mark Hessler has put down 495 at the wheels with the 1G/2G combo

 

[na90dsm]

thread resurection!!!!!!!!!1



but hwo safe is it to do this on a 1g/2g combo, also would a 50 trim be a good choice for 400whp on a 1g/2g combo.

 

[anconover]

its perfectly 'safe'..... yes a 50trim will do 400whp, and yes itll be perfectly fine on a 1g/2g combo.

 

[Stapl3]

1g rod and 2g pistons has gone 10.5 in blaha's car and a pruven made 550whp with them. Few people on dsmtalk made 500whp on 1g rods. These are daily drivers too, not one run then blow deals. Blaha ran that time like 5 years ago and that car is still driving on the same motor (car was for sale about 5 min from here 8 months ago). Just goes to show that tuning and the machine shop have everything to do with it.

I have yet to hear of an Eagle rod breaking from too much HP.

Scat? Sounds like a japanese porno.

 

[na90dsm]

so in reality if the machin work is good this setup can be run to 500whp on a 56 trim say and have no real problems.

i wanted to run a 50 trim instead of a 20g on this motor im building because my goal was 450whp. i was gonna stay n/a but i have big rods and im gettin a slammin deal on 2g pistons. i could spend the same amoutn as my n/a build up and run twice the power with the 1g/2g combo.

i was thinkin about one of the 50 trims on sale at http://www.diamondstarmotorsport.com/turboparts.shtml

i was thinkin one of those 50 trims because it uses the evo manifold which is what i was planning on running. i could use internal wastgate re routed back into exhaust. i dont like external dumps.

i was plannign on 450whp but now i read this thread and i think ill be fairly safe with that number with good machine work

i cant beleive this setup held 530hp. thats amazing for stock parts




edit:: also can this be done in a n/t block without squirters. i think it could for better oil pressure everywhere else.or in this case are squirters needed

 

[myblack98gst]

1g rod 2g piston is capable of 500 crank HP - a local guy here has had several motors with this combo and all have exceeded the 400+ hp mark at the wheels. He currentyl has a all stock motor 1g FWD with injectors and a small 16g that is running a 8.15 @ 90mph 1/8 on 15psi! it all comes down to how good of a tune it has, and how well the motor was assembled.

the machine shop has EVERYTHING to do with the sucess of a motor. I had my 1g rods machined for 2g pistons, ARP installed and re-conditioned big end. the motor now has 3,000 miles on it and has been through 4 sets of rod bearings!!!!! ( I am only replacing them till I save enough money for a new motor). I checked the main culprit yesterday and the cap was so far off I could not spin it around the journal with a bearing installed. the rod end was fine though.

Moral of the story is make sure everything is done right the first time

WHOAA!! talk abotu back from the deadly!!!


since this I have built another 6 bolt for my car.. using 9.0:1 wiesco and eagle H-beam rods w/ clevite bearings.. the motor has around about 12k on it with no major problems..

 

[DSMu4ia]

I run crowers. Next to Pauter's, they are the nicest (read: most in spec) rod on the market.

Eagle's are commonly out of spec, and need a little bit of machining before use.

I've heard of 3 sets of Eagle's failing in a 4g63 application, but it could be very well from improper build. Eagle's fail quite a bit in Honda applications.

Depending on your goals and budget, and if you're building a race motor or not, that is the determining factor. I don't know why anyone would use a budget rod on a race motor, but this is DSM, land of thy cheapass.

 

[na90dsm]

you guys thin its ok to run 1g/2g setup without squirters.

i have a set of big rods,a block, and im getitn 2g pistons really cheap so i figured i could build a nice bottom end fairly cheap and it would have some stregnth to it. my thing is i have 2 spare n/t blocks. id like to use them so i have some use for them.

i want to run 400whp or somewhere abouts that.maybe a little more depending. 20 psi and pump gas will be used and a 50 trim turbo. i really dont want to run a 20g, they seem a bit to expensive for me.

let me know your thoughts guys

 

[anconover]

1g/2g combo will be fine for your goals. And no biggy to not have the oil squirters, many including magnus take them out in theyre motors.

 

[na90dsm]

nice i actually have 2 blocks im not using at the moment, both are n/a blocks. one will be a big rod motor and the other i may build into something, or sell it. who knows

 

[blue1]

Has anyone ever placed a 001' shim in between the the rod clamping surface before they have had them resized? it is an old trick to machine the rods oval so when they are at full rpm's they are round not pulled out of shape with rotating motion! Just a question dont bombard me with what are you talking about! i have been doing this for years and had no problems, just a trick of physics and loads!!
Paul.

 

[na90dsm]

ok so heres my new question. i found this cheap turbo on ebay for about 350, ive been watching countless auctions on these turbos and thats what they end up at. heres a link to the turbo.,


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7932487589&category=33742


ive looked at specs on these and the 50 trim turbos and this oen is rated at 545hp. the 50 trims are rated 450whp. i would liek to push 475whp is at all possible but if i have to settle with 450 i will.

im gonan run 1g rods,2g pistons and everythign up top to support this setup,srower 264/272 combo ful head,slowboy manifold,external gate on o2 housing(undecided size),660 injectors,walbro255hi pressure

if i run the bogger turbo will i be able to get my goal and not overload the internals setup. id really liek 475whp on a big rod motor as they have handled a lot more then that, but i dotn want to hurt any reliability i have.

 

[Stapl3]

I'd stay away from Ebay turbos man.

 

[na90dsm]

that turbo is being sold in mass quantities from turbocalculator.com

i read a few of there maps and i have seen those exact turbos in a few other places. i guess they have way to many of em or make enough money off them on ebay to sell them liek that.ive read a few actirlces on there turbos and ive heard a few good things.

my thing is a hybrid manifold for em. damn things are expensive

 

[Tort9320g]

Those turbocalculator.com turbo are rebuilt, unless otherwise noted. As for a 20g vs. a 50 trim, I can speak from experience that the 20g will get you as fast - if not faster - and spool quicker. As for cost, I've seen 20g's with internal gates for under $1k. Back on the post topic, I'm running 11.0s on stock 1G 7 bolt rods, holding up just fine.

 

[JohnTSI]

JasonTSI on this board, his automatic gsx went 10.98@125 on one of those 57 trim t3/t4s, though he didn't buy it from that place. We purchased 2 rebuilds off ebay and they went out in 10 miles each, both where warrentied, got a refund and bough a good center section else where.

 

[na90dsm]

yea i moved on from the ebay turbos, the way i look at it is there that cheap for a reason and im nto taking chances. im gonan put all this money into this motor to just have the turbo blow. it would be pointless. ive been looking at 60 trims and 60-1 turbos. just havent descided which one ill go with

 

[Suparata]

Has anyone ever placed a 001' shim in between the the rod clamping surface before they have had them resized? it is an old trick to machine the rods oval so when they are at full rpm's they are round not pulled out of shape with rotating motion! Just a question dont bombard me with what are you talking about! i have been doing this for years and had no problems, just a trick of physics and loads!!
Paul.

A good quality rod will stretch only a few, “very” few tenths of a thou at high RPM. If the rods you are using stretch more than that, it’s time for a better rod for that application.

 

[blue1]

Carrillo's, Crower"s what ever its a common practice we do down under for the high rev small blocks 7500rpm up. I first read about it years ago when a fairly well know american Grumpy Bill Jenkins did it. i have seen piston marks on a head from a motor 302 chev zero deck height and a 026 thou metal shim gasket, 0025 thou b/end bearing clearence and rechecked on teardown bearing was fine! At 7000 rpm all was fine but after 9200 rpm (contact!!)A piston traveling at approx 37.5 ft per second takes a lot to stop at the top and pull back down again every second stroke is not under compression! This isnt what my mates freind has seen at his girlfriends dads garage! this stuff is first hand info! I have been doing performance long circuit boat engines and a few drag cars for twenty four years now. Even had a mid size family sedan (daily driver) 2300lb doing 9.87/ 138mph (350chev/ turbo 400 trans / garret to7 comp with a 1.32 ar ex and the motor was fairly mild 14 psi of boost no intercooler, 6250rpm gear changes. Oh and a shot of NOS 70hp for launch and 3rd gear. and that was 19 years ago. Now i am getting into these little 4G weapons and i thought the experiences i have seen might also be of some advantage to someone, i know they will to me in my effort to build a 550whp 4G64. in an aussie mitsu mini truck

 

[Street Surgeon]

"Modified" magazine is building up an EVOVIII and it's using Eagle rods, they have it up at around 550whp or so, and have made a few pulls to 650? I'll have to dig out the mag to make sure but I've heard nothing but good things about eagles.

 

[blue1]

Suparata i dont mean to put anyone down but if people dont try different things and share what they have experienced can you imagine the forum with everone saying WOW! my car has 179kw same as yours!
the idea of these forums is to share experience and failures so people who are willing to listen and think can make up their own minds. I have seen a lot of posts on here which i think are misleading as well!
I for one will never go off infomation that is from what a friends neighbours girlfriends dad said, i will read it and think about it and then make up my own mind from my experience, because if it stuffs up i'm the one who pays!!!
I use these forums because i am a baby at the 4gXX stuff and i realise their potential is awesome, i float between DSM tuners, DSM talk (when they get it back up) and the AEM site you put the years of experience and development of all these people, even though these guy's are possibly young enough to be my kids have put up, its my lifetime ten times over.
I am at 292kw at the wheels basically on a stock 1g with staged inj' and a FMIC. 17c td05, i would never complain on that. so if i cant build a 600whp 4G64 hybrid from what i learn from the experience off these forums, i should buy a family wagon and just give up on life!!
Paul.

 

[na90dsm]

yea im on here, talk and nabr and ive read so much stuff on 4g63 info its rediculous. ive worked on turbo cars and have gone very in depth on n/a setups as well. though building 500whp isnt for everyone, one man can not judge another mans abilities just from what he posts on a forum.

also very well said blue1

 

[blue1]

Thanks na90dsm, i look at these forums as just another very useful tool in my kit!!

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

I made a 131mph pass 3 weeks ago on Eagle Rods. That was with some miserable driving compliments of myself and on a stock tranny. I think it had 133-135mph in it on that same tune.

 

[Stapl3]

That is the highest MPH for a 12 I've ever seen. You spinnin the whole way?