1G The 4g63 headgasket fiasco....

[SasaniFab]

You need to start reading plugs.

I do my man, plugs look beautiful, ive run 1-2 step colder ngk plugs. The only time ive ever noticed any peppering was running pump gas an meth on 24 degrees of timing. Im gunna figure this out if it kills me.

We will see guys, the engine is assembled, just need to get the intake manifold on and get the charge piping connected. We will see...

 

[bastarddsm]

Jesus, pump gas and meth 24*. #livinontheedge

 

[SasaniFab]

Jesus, pump gas and meth 24*. #livinontheedge

crazy thing is.....car ran great, that's what toasted the original composite gasket. Im gunna start at 13 degrees peak to redline and go from there. Although I don't believe the timing was a factor esp on e85. Well now im running ignite 114 ethanol fuel.....we will see.

 

[lasthope05]

I've also got a brand new mitsubishi cylinder head sitting on the shelf. I bought mine around the same time as Bastard. A couple of them were on Ebay for a while. Im sure I paid around $400 for mine. I havent really seen any new ones pop up lately though.

 

[bastarddsm]

Lol op, nothing been wrong with your head or gaskets. Its your key punching that is defective. There is no reason to run that kind of timing on a street car. That's unlimited pockets, setting records kinda numbers.

 

[SasaniFab]

Lol op, nothing been wrong with your head or gaskets. Its your key punching that is defective. There is no reason to run that kind of timing on a street car. That's unlimited pockets, setting records kinda numbers.

Right I agree, just can't find evidence that the gasket was indeed burned through? Either way it's coming down

I've also got a brand new mitsubishi cylinder head sitting on the shelf. I bought mine around the same time as Bastard. A couple of them were on Ebay for a while. Im sure I paid around $400 for mine. I havent really seen any new ones pop up lately though.

Super jealous

Lol op, nothing been wrong with your head or gaskets. Its your key punching that is defective. There is no reason to run that kind of timing on a street car. That's unlimited pockets, setting records kinda numbers.

Cars fixed boys.... took her out and ripped it. Back to square one, timing in the 14s

Going with the ignite 114..... first retorque, so far so good. The hks gasket is a quality gasket, wish I ran that over the oem

 

[donniekak]

Cars fixed boys.... took her out and ripped it. Back to square one, timing in the 14s

Where at? Timing at peak torque is really important. That's where your cylinder pressures are highest.

 

[SasaniFab]

Where at? Timing at peak torque is really important. That's where your cylinder pressures are highest.

I dropped it to 13 and ramped up to 14 .... to start until I get to the dyno

Getting shit done

 

[donniekak]

If it's still 13* at peak torque it's way to much for 30+ psi.

 

[SasaniFab]

If it's still 13* at peak torque it's way to much for 30+ psi.

Can I ask you? I must have this completely backwards. I was under the impression that 13 degrees at 5500. I'm running the 2g map from 5k over I'm at 13 degrees ramping up to 14. This is e85.... I'm on 24 psi currently

 

[donniekak]

None of the stock maps are going to have the right timing numbers for more than 25-30lbs/min. If you notice all the stock maps use the same numbers for everything over 14-15psi.

Peak torque on a stock 2g is around 2500rpms. The timing a 2g runs at 5500 is trying to get power out of a tapped out turbo at the top of its range.

 

[SasaniFab]

What should I be running at 5500? I thought 13 degrees was low for e85

 

[91talonts1]

You want timing to be it's lowest point around peak torque, and gradually ramp up to your peak timing at redline.

Edit: it was early when I typed that so wasn't very clear. What works best for me is to have low timing where boost first starts to come up, hold that number steady to peak torque, then ramp it up to peak timing nice and smooth from there

 

[Kapok6]

13deg at 5500? Holy crap.

 

[ceedawg]

Po

13deg at 5500? Holy crap.

Potential ticking time bomb!!!

 

[Kapok6]

I think 13* at 5500 is why there are 17 active threads on this motor.

 

[bastarddsm]

Lol, no shit. On the tuneup that was in my car for the 141mph pass I had about 8* at 5500 and 35psi, and I think that might have been agressive. I was running a composite gasket and it lasted 2 years. It did just start to push a little bit of coolant in the finals at IFO-Joliet.

 

[Kapok6]

I just looked at my high comp motor timing map, and I was at like 4* with AFR at like 9.3ish @ 5500 to make the motor happy. Granted, that's a 10.5:1 motor, but in my conversations with Curt, on his 650awhp 93oct setup, he was running 0* at peak torque.

 

[19gsx91]

Maybe instead of putting new money into constantly upgrading your setups you should throw some money to one of the remote tuners on here, I've been holding this in for a few months now but with as many times are you've changed setups have you ever once had it professionally tuned?

 

[SasaniFab]

Maybe instead of putting new money into constantly upgrading your setups you should throw some money to one of the remote tuners on here, I've been holding this in for a few months now but with as many times are you've changed setups have you ever once had it professionally tuned?

You don't have to hold anything back. Look guys we are all adults, this is all about LEARNING, if I'm frustrating you I'm sorry but tuning is new to me and its my money so I take the heat. I have posted my logs numerous times and nobody has even said HOLY SHIT look at that timing? Let me post my table so u can see exactly what I'm talking about.

You don't have to hold anything back. Look guys we are all adults, this is all about LEARNING, if I'm frustrating you I'm sorry but tuning is new to me and its my money so I take the heat. I have posted my logs numerous times and nobody has even said HOLY sh** look at that timing? Let me post my table so u can see exactly what I'm talking about.

I appreciate all responses.... even criticism,setting out my goal was to do this on my own, so if this is what it takes so be it. This is the table I was going to run on 23 lbs e85

Table.....

 

[Kapok6]

Get motor together. Get a base tune. Take it to Dave Katz at EFI specialties for a tune. Profit.

 

[donniekak]

See how the timing is dropping at a set rpm from 1.0-1.8 load, that has to continue into the higher load cells.

For anything over 500hp I start with low single digits right at full spool, and ramp it up to 12* or so at 9,000 rpms for starters.

Try using virtual dyno when adding timing. If you add a degree and don't see at least 10-15hp increase you're just beating on parts.

 

[19gsx91]

You don't have to hold anything back. Look guys we are all adults, this is all about LEARNING, if I'm frustrating you I'm sorry but tuning is new to me and its my money so I take the heat. I have posted my logs numerous times and nobody has even said HOLY sh** look at that timing? Let me post my table so u can see exactly what I'm talking about.

You guys heard him. He said don't hold back! Trust me, I understand wanting to build your own car and say top to bottom I did everything myself, but sometimes if you aren't sure you can't just "assume" everything is okay and constantly change setups wondering why things are only marginally improving whilst simultaneously popping head gaskets


When I said that I've been holding back for months it was more my statement about consulting a professional tuner, Correct me If I'm wrong but your now on turbo setup number 3 In less than 18 months. I honestly believe that if you would of gotten with a professional tuner to even just street tune your setup you might of been able to huge gains out of your previous setups without feeling the need to jump into a different turbo.

I've watched this whole thing trying to figure out what your endgame is.. I mean whatever it is go for it.. but I'm just saying if you're gonna throw thousands of dollars in hard parts at the car without once getting a real, legit second opinion from a reputable tuner.. then you really don't have anyone to blame but yourself, it just seems strange to me to be constantly changing setups without giving them time to dial them in.. When I first got the v2 68hta I HATED it.. once I changed maps and turned the boost up a little bit it was a completely different animal.. before I pulled the turbo off I ran the two maps back to back and there was almost 100hp difference according to ECMlink. same boost. same road. two different timing maps.

I researched the hell out of my turbo, found other guys who had professional tunes, reached out and asked questions. obviously they can't share the logs but I have HARASSED poor Brett @GST with PSI about his setup with his 68hta getting feedback from him and some other reputable guys running setups similar to mine to make sure I was at least in the ballpark. I am by no means a professional tuner, and I am definitely not a high horsepower guy but I'm sure if you PM'd @bastarddsm he could probably give you a run down of what you'd need to do for him to be able to work on your tune.

and trust me.. I know what you mean about posting logs and getting little to no feedback, the only difference is I'm running pump gas and link will tell me somethings wrong with my tune whereas you won't know til something pops.

 

[SasaniFab]

Believe me man we live in a world now where u can't speak your mind without someone being offended and that drives me nuts. When I was getting my block built I brought it to a local guy who has been building these cars for years.....him f***ing me over forced me to build the block myself. That knowlege is priceless in my mind, I told myself that I wouldn't make that mistake again. Sometimes this is the best way to learn, to get out of your comfort zone. The car was entirely build and "tuned" by me. With the help of you guys obviously. What still troubles me about this situation is that there is no sign of detonation or failure in anywAy. What I'm hearing is that at peak torque the cylinder pressures are at their highest, by elevating the timing you are making a bad situation even worse
During this critical time. As far as my setups changing......I always wanted a t3 setup and wasn't content with knowing I was peaked at 30psi.

You guys heard him. He said don't hold back! Trust me, I understand wanting to build your own car and say top to bottom I did everything myself, but sometimes if you aren't sure you can't just "assume" everything is okay and constantly change setups wondering why things are only marginally improving whilst simultaneously popping head gaskets


When I said that I've been holding back for months it was more my statement about consulting a professional tuner, Correct me If I'm wrong but your now on turbo setup number 3 In less than 18 months. I honestly believe that if you would of gotten with a professional tuner to even just street tune your setup you might of been able to huge gains out of your previous setups without feeling the need to jump into a different turbo.

I've watched this whole thing trying to figure out what your endgame is.. I mean whatever it is go for it.. but I'm just saying if you're gonna throw thousands of dollars in hard parts at the car without once getting a real, legit second opinion from a reputable tuner.. then you really don't have anyone to blame but yourself, it just seems strange to me to be constantly changing setups without giving them time to dial them in.. When I first got the v2 68hta I HATED it.. once I changed maps and turned the boost up a little bit it was a completely different animal.. before I pulled the turbo off I ran the two maps back to back and there was almost 100hp difference according to ECMlink. same boost. same road. two different timing maps.

I researched the hell out of my turbo, found other guys who had professional tunes, reached out and asked questions. obviously they can't share the logs but I have HARASSED poor Brett @GST with PSI about his setup with his 68hta getting feedback from him and some other reputable guys running setups similar to mine to make sure I was at least in the ballpark. I am by no means a professional tuner, and I am definitely not a high horsepower guy but I'm sure if you PM'd @bastarddsm he could probably give you a run down of what you'd need to do for him to be able to work on your tune.

and trust me.. I know what you mean about posting logs and getting little to no feedback, the only difference is I'm running pump gas and link will tell me somethings wrong with my tune whereas you won't know til something pops.

derstand

New head guys, just waiting for the block to get back from the machine shop.

Just purchased a second new oem 6 bolt head, I have 4 heads ,2 brand new and 4 blocks. I'm officially done.....if I can't get it done with this , I'll consider myself incapable and will gladly give up

I have a dyno session scheduled for wed

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I am the same type as you as wanting to build it, tune it, drive it all myself BUT in the end of my fun with this, a pro tune is definately in order for me to work out a few minor things and get the most out of it safely. Nothing wrong with saying I tried but I failed so now I have learned. With that said, what I should learn is there is always someone better at this than me and I am willing to pay just like buying a new turbo. I thank each and everyone that has ever takin the time to lend me a hand, you all know who you are!

Edit: Good for you!!! I wish there were something within reason close to me for a dyno tune, but there isn't that I know of. I am happy for you!