1G The 4g63 headgasket fiasco....

[SasaniFab]

I should say, its just 3 pulls.....not a tune, he couldnt get me in, plus 500 dollars is more money than i wanna spend on a tune right now. So 100 bucks gets me one warm up pull and 3 pulls.......Just wanna see were I am.Im gunna spend the morning dialing in the car as best as i can. We will see.

 

[gsxeclipse102]

I wish you the best of luck

 

[SasaniFab]

I wish you the best of luck

HaHa gunna need it, Hell or high water im gunna make power.......ill be sure to post my failu .....oh i mean results , results

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I'm jelly dude. Hope it makes you smile

 

[ceedawg]

Believe me man we live in a world now where u can't speak your mind without someone being offended and that drives me nuts. When I was getting my block built I brought it to a local guy who has been building these cars for years.....him f***ing me over forced me to build the block myself. That knowlege is priceless in my mind, I told myself that I wouldn't make that mistake again. Sometimes this is the best way to learn, to get out of your comfort zone. The car was entirely build and "tuned" by me. With the help of you guys obviously. What still troubles me about this situation is that there is no sign of detonation or failure in anywAy. What I'm hearing is that at peak torque the cylinder pressures are at their highest, by elevating the timing you are making a bad situation even worse
During this critical time. As far as my setups changing......I always wanted a t3 setup and wasn't content with knowing I was peaked at 30psi.


derstand

Amen!!! I wish I knew how to tune my car and build my own bottom end. You have gained a wealth of knowledge going through your trial and error moments! Saves a lot of money as well on top of saying the forum help is a very positive experience. Screw paying somebody..

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Amen!!! I wish I knew how to tune my car and build my own bottom end. You have gained a wealth of knowledge going through your trial and error moments! Saves a lot of money as well on top of saying the forum help is a very positive experience. Screw paying somebody..

Well put!

 

[SasaniFab]

Amen!!! I wish I knew how to tune my car and build my own bottom end. You have gained a wealth of knowledge going through your trial and error moments! Saves a lot of money as well on top of saying the forum help is a very positive experience. Screw paying somebody..

The one bit of advice I would give is to not over complicate things. If you want to build a powerful engine keep it simple. I see so many guys on the forum posting "I want to build a 1000whp street car" in nursing we make care plans for patients and need to set goals for each individual. We learn to set goals that may seem easy to some but are achievable. Setting your sights to high can lead to frustration and you may just give up. My goal was 500whp, yesterday I achieved my goal. Some might say 500hp is easy to make. The people saying that more than likely never made over 300hp. Would you rather have 500hp and enjoy it for the summer or 750 and enjoy it for a month? The great thing about reaching a goal is be able to set another one ....

 

[sacrileger]

Torque the head like a man and you won't need to oring it. We have been to 1000hp without orings....

When you say "torque the head like a man.." what pounds force feet are we talking about? The factory spec is 65-72 Ft-lbs.

 

[biglady112]

110lbs. If you only torque yours that far that sucks for you.

 

[sacrileger]

110lbs. If you only torque yours that far that sucks for you.

I don't have a problem with getting a torque wrench for that kinda force; however, can 110 Ft-lbs be done with stock head studs and stock block tread without stripping one or the other?

 

[boostdawd]

I don't have a problem with getting a torque wrench for that kinda force; however, can 110 Ft-lbs be done with stock head studs and stock block tread without stripping one or the other?

Doubt it. Biglady is referring to arp's.

 

[sacrileger]

Doubt it. Biglady is referring to arp's.

What about the tread in the block? Won't ARP studs strip them bare with 110 Ft-lb force?

 

[boostdawd]

Took mine to 90 several times with no problems. No experience with 110 so can't say.

 

[sacrileger]

Took mine to 90 several times with no problems. No experience with 110 so can't say.

ok, I'll try 90 ft-lb on mine since I have to pull the head off tomorrow anyway to see why exhaust valves are left open - that's quite the crank though - way over factory spec

 

[boostdawd]

These cars are ran over factory horsepower

 

[sacrileger]

Still sucks for you if you only go to 90. If you are damaging the threads in the block or your head studs or head bolts, then you probably need to find another hobby and leave the mechanical aspect of your engine to someone with some common sense.

I am not quite sure where you're going with your flippant comment but rest assured it sucks for you if you think there is much mechanical skill needed to torque a bolt. Common sense tells everyone that if a bolt is designed to hold integrity up to 80 ft lbs of twisting momentum, 90 ft lbs will snap the bolt. Same goes for a thread and material composition of the block which is a function of how much force the thread can withstand. Perhaps you wish to elaborate on the skills that you think are needed to torque a bolt to 110 ft lbs ????

 

[AdR]

Clearly you still at on a 16g and a stock motor and had no clue on what I am talking about. When you are ready to move away from what you think Mitsubishi has said should be the end all be all, maybe I will entertain you. Until then I will continue to build serious toys and not have the problems you think should exist.

You really are a bright ray on sunshine in the morning aren't ya? You can do two things, either be a helpful member and actually share your knowledge or you can choose to do exactly what you're doing now and get into a senseless bickering fight for the heck of it...



The whole reason for torquing over Mitsubishi specs is to provide additional clamp force to the head to withstand the additional pressures over stock. This does have a limit but I've seen 100-110ft/lbs with ARP hardware been done without issues other than a slightly deformed bolt seat at the head (where the washer comes into contact with the head). Your concern of stripping the studs clean off the head would be valid if our blocks were aluminum. Since these are iron blocks and the thread engagement is pretty long there shouldn't be an issue unless your block already had an inherent problem in any of the threaded holes. APR's are built to withstand torques larger than 120ft/lbs without any possibility of shear as their safety factor is over 2x the recommended torque spec in their instructions (which is 80ft/lbs BTW). What @biglady112 should be defining is what does he torque them with (moly lube, oil, arp lube, etc) as torque specs vary with lubrication method.

 

[sacrileger]

...Since these are iron blocks and the thread engagement is pretty long there shouldn't be an issue unless your block already had an inherent problem in any of the threaded holes. APR's are build to withstand torques larger than 120ft/lbs without any possibility of shear as their safety factor is over 2x the recommended torque spec in their instructions (which is 80ft/lbs BTW). What @biglady112 should be defining is what does he torque them with (moly lube, oil, arp lube, etc) as torque specs vary with lubrication method.

Thank you, that is very helpful and illuminates the methodology of how one can achieve such force. I'd like to know more about how torque specs vary with lubrication method. I presume this means applying oil to threads and under the head of the bolt to reduce overall friction where the bolt comes into contact with other surfaces (washer, head, block)

 

[ceedawg]

Wow the responses are somewhat humorous on All sides but I do agree we need to show some patience to folks who earnestly just want to make sure they are doing the right thing. Otherwise folks won't feel comfortable asking for help.

I went to 105ftlbs with my H11's. And it was biotch to torque. Had to use a pole on the end of the torque wrench. I have heard of guys going as high as 140ft lbs. How in the world they did it is incredible to me but yeah. Takes a lot of human force even to go 110. I used the lubricant that came with the bolts applied to the threads ,everything on my engine(threads in block cleaned )was clean and rebuilt. The bolts/nuts/ threads in the iron block handle the pressure no problem.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

115 on my L19's. ARP lube on both sides of the head washer, bottom of the nut and on the threads for as little friction as possible.

 

[sacrileger]

.. going as high as 140ft lbs. How in the world they did it is incredible to me but yeah. Takes a lot of human force even to go 110. I used the lubricant that came with the bolts applied to the threads ,everything on my engine(threads in block cleaned )was clean and rebuilt. The bolts/nuts/ threads in the iron block handle the pressure no problem.

Good information to know. This is something the Mitsu good book doesn't talk about which puts limits on what one thinks can be done before bolts snap and threads in the block come out clean. It takes no mechanical skills even for chimps to crank a bolt but it takes knowledge of limits and methodology how to do it right before damage occurs.

 

[AdR]

The only concern I see in high torque values is deformation of the head seat and possibly cracks. These are stout heads that withstand abuse but there is such a thing as too much torque. I'd personally stay in the 100-110ft-lb range using ARP Lube on the seats and threads (studs just hand tight on the block) and call it a day. If you need anything over that to prevent head separation you should probably fire-ring your block.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Wow the responses are somewhat humorous on All sides but I do agree we need to show some patience to folks who earnestly just want to make sure they are doing the right thing. Otherwise folks won't feel comfortable asking for help.

I went to 105ftlbs with my H11's. And it was biotch to torque. Had to use a pole on the end of the torque wrench. I have heard of guys going as high as 140ft lbs. How in the world they did it is incredible to me but yeah. Takes a lot of human force even to go 110. I used the lubricant that came with the bolts applied to the threads ,everything on my engine(threads in block cleaned )was clean and rebuilt. The bolts/nuts/ threads in the iron block handle the pressure no problem.

Do you have a small torque wrench or something? I do my lugnuts to 140ft/lbs and it's easy as hell. I have a big torque wrench though.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

The only concern I see in high torque values is deformation of the head seat and possibly cracks. These are stout heads that withhold abuse but there is such a thing as too much torque. I'd personally stay in the 100-110ft-lb range using ARP Lube on the seats and threads (studs just hand tight on the block) and call it a day. If you need anything over that to prevent head separation you should probably fire-ring your block.

I don't RECOMMEND my settings, they are just MY values. 40 lbs of boost with a HX40 on a 10:1 motor on E85 with tons of timing and fuel.....I built it to do what I do with it and it has treated me well when called upon.

 

[AdR]

Do you have a small torque wrench or something? I do my lugnuts to 140ft/lbs and it's easy as hell. I have a big torque wrench though.

Holy lugnuts torque Batman!

Torquing horizontally is harder than applying the same torque vertically. Wheel studs you apply in a downward motion and it's easier. I use a 1/2" drive torque wrench for both and at 90ft-lbs in both scenarios it's very easy to do for lug nuts, but it takes me much more effort to do the head bolts for my racecar.