1G The 4g63 headgasket fiasco....

[gsxeclipse102]

Did you ever repeat the leakdown test? Its possible you just had a trapped air bubble and it moved while you were leakdown testing. Id check the block/head flatness and if its good throw that hks gasket in and go back to driving the car.

 

[SasaniFab]

Did you ever repeat the leakdown test? Its possible you just had a trapped air bubble and it moved while you were leakdown testing. Id check the block/head flatness and if its good throw that hks gasket in and go back to driving the car.

Yah several times.... my coolant was moving upwards. I have a spare head that was rebuilt... I transferred over the springs etc. didn't have time to finish. Gunna finish sat

 

[donniekak]

Unless I'm pushing coolant or fail a hydrocarbon test I don't pull the head.

You could have moved a bubble in the system doing the test when the cylinder blew down to bdc moving the water pump.

It's really hard for a small bubble to move from the head to the water neck with the engine not running anyway.

 

[19gsx91]

Looks to me like you just like taking your engine apart . My cousin is the same way.. has less then 1000 miles on his 04 WRX with a built engine, sent a sample of his oil out to blackstone for testing, had trace amounts of ring land material so he's tearing it down completely for the 4th time in less then 3 years. I told him it's probably just breaking in, drive it and ENJOY it.

If it goes bang just fix it. If the car runs good and tests fine and isn't pushing coolant you're just spending time tearing a perfectly good engine apart that you could of spent driving it.

 

[Kapok6]

Looks to me like you just like taking your engine apart . My cousin is the same way.. has less then 1000 miles on his 04 WRX with a built engine, sent a sample of his oil out to blackstone for testing, had trace amounts of ring land material so he's tearing it down completely for the 4th time in less then 3 years. I told him it's probably just breaking in, drive it and ENJOY it.

If it goes bang just fix it. If the car runs good and tests fine and isn't pushing coolant you're just spending time tearing a perfectly good engine apart that you could of spent driving it.

This. Ida ran that bish.

 

[SasaniFab]

If you leakdown test an engine and your coolant lifts and bubbles this can only mean one thing guys. The test was done several times with the same results. I was also missing coolant the last time I brought her in.

I honestly think I caught the engine prior to disaster. When I brought it in the last time the coolant was down below the top water neck. So I was like here we go.... started on number 4 and worked my way over. When I got to one everything seemed to be ok then all of a sudden the coolant rose and little bubbles started to rise up. I even retorqued the headgasket. Finally loosened then retorqued...... still same result. There was a leak somewhere......nothing else could explain this. I also noticed something I did the last time my headgasket went. The engine was detonating more than usual, when my last headgasket went, when I pushed coolant my knock sensor would go nuts...

 

[b00stedtalon2]

Two nice flat surfaces and an HKS stopper gasket is all you need.

 

[SasaniFab]

That's what I'm doing my man

I put my beehives in the new head with new valve seals. Gunna hope for the best...

 

[gsxeclipse102]

The hks gasket is a thing of beauty.

 

[SasaniFab]

if this doesnt fix it, the motors coming out....Im getting tired of this nonsense

 

[19gsx91]

C'mon man I already had my mic drop moment, don't make me say it all again!

 

[SasaniFab]

C'mon man I already had my mic drop moment, don't make me say it all again!

I've had really bad luck with headgaskets...... lost the first oem composite, replaced with another composite. Blew that one +30psi. Lost this mls gasket around 40psi. I could drive around for 10 years at 20 psi but what fun is that?

Are guys really making 500+ hp on an mls gasket and running that motor for 2 years without issue? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Kapok6]

I did on a composite. Then a wrist pin broke after 3yrs.

 

[bastarddsm]

Yeah, me too.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I'm in between my 2nd and 3rd yr with my set up. I am jinxing the shti outta myself now. Cometic, good RA, Copper Coat, head at 115 in at least 6 lead up torques. I clamped it down good because I new High Compression and High Boost would mean Very high pressures. It gets beat on everytime it goes out. I can drive it to work 30 miles or just be the call out car. I am happy where it is at and am finally settled with 40lbs boost. Manley H Beam + with 625's and 22mm wrist pins on Manley 10:1's. Small Kelford Cams and a Eagle crank on E85. Thats my setup that I use. It moves out and yeh 500+ hp.

 

[91talonts1]

^^^ Probably jinxing myself as well here. I run an MLS gasket, installed late 2013. Setup has changed over the years but since February 2014 it's been in its current form for the most part. 30+ psi since then. Granted it's only accumulated about 6000 miles in that timeframe, but they haven't been gentle. I also torqued the shit out of it, like 110-115 ft/lbs, just once never retorqued. I considered it but was concerned it would disturb the gasket. Maybe I have just had good luck.

I have a hard time imagining how an MLS could really fail under normal circumstances. This is just me thinking out loud but, if the surfaces are perfectly smooth, the steel layers are evenly compressed and properly torqued, how do they blow other than due to something deforming? Is something going on here like what the Boostin Performance studs with inserts are made to combat? Just flexing of the head casting itself around the studs from pressure?

Could always be something with the way you're tuning as well. Getting high cylinder pressures or something, maybe?

 

[donniekak]

I've been running 30-40 psi for the past couple years. With arp l19's and a felpro mls I haven't had any issues. I also put 15,000 miles a year on my car, hard miles.

 

[SasaniFab]

I dont know guys, its getting frustrating

 

[boostdawd]

Well worth it in the end. Who or what else is going to put that smile on your face like boost. Well maybe a newborn son or hitting the jackpot but it's a different type of smile

 

[SasaniFab]

I hate the in betweens, when your car is down and your doing research and ordering parts and waiting to wrench. Drives me nuts.

 

[boostdawd]

Feels like a withdrawal. I get it. It would be worse if u were broke like most dmsrs and had no monies for parts.

 

[SasaniFab]

It's funny, if you really wanted to, 20psi will last as long as u want it to. Here I am why won't u except 40psi into your bowels ???? It's not like it's a lot..... that is a lot of boost pressure with a large turbo. Oh well, I'll figure it out.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You're having "boost withdrawal's", it comes with being a boost junkie. I get it and hate it when my car is down too. I'm hoping you are able get your "fix" real soon tho!

 

[kmetiuk]

This post is not a jab at what you did or trying to tell you what to do @amsrn13 its just for discussion in general as there are sooooooo many schools of thought on getting our head gaskets to seal.

So I do have some thoughts on this....not like I am speaking from experience as my built motor is in progress now but i am curious on others input.

I have been thinking about this thread as you have been posting, as well as thinking about all the other threads peeps have posted regarding head studs and gasket problems.

So a lot of peeps swear by ARP moly lube and say it MUST be this brand. Reg moly wont cut it and stay the fcuk away from using oil. I have always used ARP moly but incase its still up for debate....I found this graph on ARP's site:

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From the graph you can see that ARP moly is by far the best. It's also interesting to note that if you do a few re-rotorque cycles on initial install you CAN actually get a higher clamping preload on the bolts. I would hazard a guess and say that its from the thread/nut mating surfaces seating against each other and decreasing turning friciton even more.

I personally do a 5x torque cycle on the first install of the head stud as I read somewhere that's what ARP recommends. Now I can see why...you get a few extra %'s of clamping force.


The following graph I found a couple days ago and I am still pondering it. It speaks of the shoulder that is on studs....I don't know if this is an issue on ARP head studs but I am going to be checking it out for my current motor build.

What I have been thinking about more so is that ARP says to hand tighten studs in the block then install the nut. I have read other members say to put a bit of torque on it (nothing crazy) so I have always wonder about why or if I should torque the studs in a bit.

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The great thing about this graph (regardless of shoulder) is you can see the stress in the threads on the block side of the non-bottom stud is not distributed evenly at all. Great visual of how important it is to get that stud bottom out....clean them threads and make damn sure the hole is cleaned so it totally bottoms out.

Now the thing that has me really thinking currently is the bottomed stud stresses. To me if you torque in the stud a bit you can increase the bias of the stresses to the bottom side of the stud. When the nut is fully torqued on the stud the stress will even back out across the threads as when you stretch a thread.

To me this makes sense and is good practice (IMHO anyways) b/c if you think about it when you stretch a stud it will load up the first thread in the block side until it stretches a bit, then the 2nd thread will load up and stretch, etc, etc. So in my mind if you bias the stress to the bottom of the thread by preloading the stud a bit in the block when its fully loaded you will get a more even load across all the threads. The only thing is....how much preload torque on the stud? Some is better than hand torque for sure.

In the end if you only hand tighten and then torque the nuts on you are really only using the upper threads for clamping force and due to that you will get a bit more deflection when under crazy cylinder pressures.

Again not telling anyone what to do....just curious about thoughts on any of this and clamping force.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

It's funny, if you really wanted to, 20psi will last as long as u want it to. Here I am why won't u except 40psi into your bowels ???? It's not like it's a lot..... that is a lot of boost pressure with a large turbo. Oh well, I'll figure it out.

This is probably pointless but how are you cleaning the deck and head?