The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Phil1320]

As said, I'm not totally sure on weight yet, I'll get it today. But I have to figure in my headlight covers (1ga) and whatever some custom brackets that I have to make to hold them up will weigh. Your hood even if it is a little heavier is nice due to covering the headlight area, honestly wish I could afford to have a lightweight hood made like that, you're still saving 24lbs if it is 20!

Gotcha... It does make my car less of an "aerodynamic disaster" with the headlight covers molded in. In case noone noticed I also have the Eclipse center piece between the lights as it is solid vs. the Talon piece having the indent with the grilles.....

 

[Steve93Talon]

Hahaha I misread your post, I'm a tool. I thought you were saying I was out of business. Anyway...seems Franks Custom Fiberglass moved from Pa to Nc and is still in business as the site was updated in 2010.

My FG single layer hood is completely tossable too. no trouble picking it up one handed. It's still 13lb.

I've got a Frank's CF hood sitting here, I'll weigh it tomorrow. Also have a VIS CF hood on the car currently, if I feel motivated I'll weigh that one too, but I can assure you it's quite a bit heavier than the Frank's piece.


Since I switched to the '93 AWD shell to build, I've got the dual piston brakes on the car. I have considered pulling them and putting the smaller brakes on, any idea what the actual difference in weight of the rotor is?

I'm also considering the JMF bolt-in fuel cell, I'm going to get a weight from them to see if it's worth doing as a weight reduction item. Anyone know what an empty stock tank weighs?

 

[SBstar]

Partsweights - DsmWiki

There's the lists of weights I made up, feel free to let me know if weight #'s are off if you have a legitimate weight for something. Alot of those were taken from other sites and some from my own scale.

Stock gas tank should weigh (1g) - 26lbs or 29.5 w/heatshield
Including filler lines, fill kneck, sending unit, = 45lbs (doesn't seem right but someone sent me that weight)

Rotors for single piston are 10lbs vs. 13 for the twin pistons. (fronts)
Calipers are supposed to be 2lbs heavier with the twins vs. singles.
Obviously rotor weights are going to change by manufacturer and style

That would be awesome to get weight #'s for different hoods.

I was a little disappointed, buddy told me he thought it was 9lbs, so there you go with crazy estimates. Unfortunately I didn't even check and had never picked it up off the car by myself until today, knew immediately it was way more then that. Came out to 17-18lbs. Digital scale flickered about a lb. after a few attempts. Not nearly as light as I'd like but still a really decent weight savings from the stocker. Covers are 2.5lbs combined (give or take a few ounces).

 

[1SloEvo]

My stock tank with about a gallon of gas is about 39 lb (without the filler neck which weighed in at about 1.2lb). That said, you take out 7lb or so for the gas and you're around 33lb with the filler neck included.

I talk to a guy at Frank's Fiberglass today. He said the bolt/pin hood is between 11-13lb. He said he did not know the weight of the hatch, but it shaved at least half the weight of the hatch itself. Even if the hood is 14lb, that saves 30lb of weight. I would think the hatch will save around the same amount if using fiberglass/Lexan compared to the stock unit with glass.

What years and models can I get those brakes off of? I have a junk yard not even 2 miles from my house to go look through. They normally have 5-6 DSMs in there...if not more.

 

[Phil1320]

My stock tank with about a gallon of gas is about 39 lb (without the filler neck which weighed in at about 1.2lb). That said, you take out 7lb or so for the gas and you're around 33lb with the filler neck included.

I talk to a guy at Frank's Fiberglass today. He said the bolt/pin hood is between 11-13lb. He said he did not know the weight of the hatch, but it shaved at least half the weight of the hatch itself. Even if the hood is 14lb, that saves 30lb of weight. I would think the hatch will save around the same amount if using fiberglass/Lexan compared to the stock unit with glass.

What years and models can I get those brakes off of? I have a junk yard not even 2 miles from my house to go look through. They normally have 5-6 DSMs in there...if not more.

Should be '90-'92.5.....

 

[hubz91talontsi]

I think all fwd 1g's have the single piston calipers.

 

[pneumo]

I think all fwd 1g's have the single piston calipers.

Right. All FWD DSM's have small single piston front brakes. Only the 07/92-99 AWD had twin piston calipers with larger rotors.

Another oddball 1990 quirk I just discovered last week when I got new front brakes and rotors for my 1990 Laser. FWD DSM's built between 05/88 to 02/89 use a different pad with a 10.45" rotor. My guess is this brake was carried over from the Cordia, which is similar to the FWD DSM. The AWD DSM began production 03/89 so it never came with the oddball front brake.

I just weighted my stock rear hatch. It weighs 43 pounds with just the metal, glass and wires. No wing, no brake light, no interior trim, no wiper.

 

[SBstar]

Right. All FWD DSM's have small single piston front brakes. Only the 07/92-99 AWD had twin piston calipers with larger rotors.

Another oddball 1990 quirk I just discovered last week when I got new front brakes and rotors for my 1990 Laser. FWD DSM's built between 05/88 to 02/89 use a different pad with a 10.45" rotor. My guess is this brake was carried over from the Cordia, which is similar to the FWD DSM. The AWD DSM began production 03/89 so it never came with the oddball front brake.

I just weighted my stock rear hatch. It weighs 43 pounds with just the metal, glass and wires. No wing, no brake light, no interior trim, no wiper.

So that would probably put it right close to the 50lbs I came up with if it had the spoiler, trim, and wiper motor/wiper. Not too shabby, alot of weight you can shed right there. Of course for most of us the spoiler is going to stay so the car doesn't look so bad. I weighed the entire 5 piece 1ga talon spoiler at 20lbs. I'm not bothering taking it off this time but I am curious about CF alternatives, unfortunately it seems the only person currently working on making them is making a skin to go over the stock piece, adding weight instead of eliminating it. And after what we stated about aero I would assume losing 20lbs and adding drag might zero out anyways.

 

[1SloEvo]

Right. All FWD DSM's have small single piston front brakes. Only the 07/92-99 AWD had twin piston calipers with larger rotors.

Another oddball 1990 quirk I just discovered last week when I got new front brakes and rotors for my 1990 Laser. FWD DSM's built between 05/88 to 02/89 use a different pad with a 10.45" rotor. My guess is this brake was carried over from the Cordia, which is similar to the FWD DSM. The AWD DSM began production 03/89 so it never came with the oddball front brake.

I just weighted my stock rear hatch. It weighs 43 pounds with just the metal, glass and wires. No wing, no brake light, no interior trim, no wiper.

Good info Dave. That said, I now know I have the single caliper brakes and can only save weight there by going with a race setup. Not worth it IMO.

Also, some great info on the weight of the hatch. Thanks for weighing and posting the numbers. Definitely a lot of weight to shed there.

 

[forcefed86]

Could always get creative with a prostock spoiler and drop a ton of weight...

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[TSimage]

If anyone followed my build thread update that I still need to make a blog I just did my wiring harness for the main/chassis/fuse harness and engine/ecu harness and saved 7lbs in the process...

I'll be tackling the interior harness next and probably will be able to pull about 2 more lbs out of that. Naturally I'm not one of those "gotta save every lb" guys because its still going to be a street car so I cant touch the doors or any of the inner framing but on a buddies car I built for him we had that car down to about 2500lbs with him in it and all OEM parts (minus seats) meaning he didn't have tubular upgraded piece like whats available to us today.

The only daunting part about it was scraping off the glues and coatings... Hell we saved like 5-10lbs of weight by stripping the car down to the bare metal and doing a 1stage paint job back over it.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Ok, Frank's CF hood for 1GB weighs 13.5 lbs. Anyone want anything else weighed?

I've also updated my blog recently for anyone who cares: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/steve93talon/2148-fwd-build-part-4.html

 

[SBstar]

Ok, Frank's CF hood for 1GB weighs 13.5 lbs. Anyone want anything else weighed?

I've also updated my blog recently for anyone who cares: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/steve93talon/2148-fwd-build-part-4.html

Weigh that VIS one as well. So franks is about 4 lbs lighter then mine from GT fabrications. But, is your Franks bolt-on pin-on or a full pin-on? Does it have the hood latch?

 

[Steve93Talon]

Weigh that VIS one as well. So franks is about 4 lbs lighter then mine from GT fabrications. But, is your Franks bolt-on pin-on or a full pin-on? Does it have the hood latch?

Bolt-on at the hinges, pins up front, no latch. The VIS is currently on the car and the car is stuffed into a corner so I can't get to the pass. side hinge. Once I have the car dug out I'll pull it off the car and weigh it.

 

[SBstar]

Thats cool, I'm going to add weights for what hoods we can get to the weights list I have.

I'm probably going to gut out my hatch sometime this week, maybe hack a little metal off it if I get motivated, but I'll see what it weighs and what not.

We've really gotten into this weight loss stuff on the 14b thread here. Anyone doing any power type modifications they're going to get some testing in on soon? I might have a set of hks 264/272 cams available to me soon, not sure if the 272 would hurt more then it would help or not but alot of the higher hp guys were running similar to straight 272's so it I might throw them in. But that would be after a few track outings on the stockers anyways.

 

[Steve93Talon]

We've really gotten into this weight loss stuff on the 14b thread here. Anyone doing any power type modifications they're going to get some testing in on soon? I might have a set of hks 264/272 cams available to me soon, not sure if the 272 would hurt more then it would help or not but alot of the higher hp guys were running similar to straight 272's so it I might throw them in. But that would be after a few track outings on the stockers anyways.

I'm starting out on stock cams, then still planning to try a couple different options out. Based on my previous experience with HKS 272s, I think they were a bit too much for a 14b, even with the 7cm housing. You can see how power fell off right around where 272s would typically start helping you in the graph. I've actually got a plan in mind for some cams that will hopefully hit the sweet spot for powerband with the 14b, as well as some weight reduction

 

[SBstar]

My slip from October:

Hey Phil, why isn't this on the dsmtuners times list yet

 

[1SloEvo]

I have the fp2 cams I'll be running with the 14b. probably a little much, but we'll dial it in the best we can using the adjustable cam gears and working the tune on the Evo ECU. Should work out ok.

 

[tkelly27]

I've actually got a plan in mind for some cams that will hopefully hit the sweet spot for powerband with the 14b, as well as some weight reduction

They wouldn't be hollow would they?

How acceptably ugly would a hood be? I'm thinking of making a 1-2 layer fiberglass unit with woven FG or aluminum spars to support it like the stock hood has the metal bracing. I'm hoping it will be under 5lbs, but it may have too much flex, and it will be ugly. If it works, way cheap, just send materials.

I'm sure you all have removed the power steering, PS mount, and cut that DS mount too right? You can go really wild with "free" weight loss, cutting bolts/studs that stick out past their nuts/threads, overhang on worm gear clamps, wire removal. I doubt any of it will add up to replacing a few panels of glass with lexan, but lbs is lbs.

What kinds of testing have any of you done with suspension and tire pressures? I kind of wonder if it would be worth while to have the front tires pumped up a little to reduce rolling resistance. Bad for traction, but it may or may not be adding a huge amount anyway. Tiny bits add up!

 

[Steve93Talon]

They wouldn't be hollow would they?

Bingo. 1lb each lighter than stock cams. As soon as I get the car dialed in and dynoed on the stock cams, these will be going in.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[pneumo]

More weights; FWD front subframe, bare; 1Ga 30 pounds, 1Gb 28 pounds. Front control arm with ball joint, no bushings 8 pounds. FWD rear panhard bar 4 pounds.

No I didn't spend the whole day pulling those parts just so I could weigh them for this thread. I'm nice but I'm not that nice! I had a minor mishap last week where I did a low speed spin out on a wet freeway on ramp. My Laser tagged the retaining wall and bent the front right control arm, subframe and rear panhard bar. Cost to repair; $22! Thanks to the pickNpull 1/2 price day.

 

[TSimage]

More weights; FWD front subframe, bare; 1Ga 30 pounds, 1Gb 28 pounds. Front control arm with ball joint, no bushings 8 pounds. FWD rear panhard bar 4 pounds.

No I didn't spend the whole day pulling those parts just so I could weigh them for this thread. I'm nice but I'm not that nice! I had a minor mishap last week where I did a low speed spin out on a wet freeway on ramp. My Laser tagged the retaining wall and bent the front right control arm, subframe and rear panhard bar. Cost to repair; $22! Thanks to the pickNpull 1/2 price day.

Shoulda took the Talon out in stead of the Laser Dave!

Im going to try to tune up the Galant next weekend if the weather is nice.. you wanna come up lemme know. You can stay here again and we'll make a productive weekend of it and hit the track..

 

[pneumo]

Shoulda took the Talon out in stead of the Laser Dave!

Im going to try to tune up the Galant next weekend if the weather is nice.. you wanna come up lemme know. You can stay here again and we'll make a productive weekend of it and hit the track..

I dunno about the Talon, it's riding on 8 year old Kumho MX's, which suk in the wet when new. It probably would've done a full 360 on that day.

CMI is coming up March 6, next Sunday! I'll keep an eye on the weather report, if it's good I'd be glad to come up there Saturday and help with the Galant.

 

[SBstar]

Must be nice racing in March! My tracks open in early April, but usually aren't "usable" until late April into early May. I plan to have the car ready for early May, but if I get it suitable and weather permits I'll get out earlier. Still isn't all that far away though!

 

[TSimage]

Must be nice racing in March! My tracks open in early April, but usually aren't "usable" until late April into early May. I plan to have the car ready for early May, but if I get it suitable and weather permits I'll get out earlier. Still isn't all that far away though!

The track never closed...

Missed a few dates through Nov-Dec but even still it was open year around pretty much. Just the big events hold off. On a side note there is always a big event on or near Newears and it never fails to have good weather. That was the day I ran my first 10s in the 35r about 4-5 yrs ago. Love that race.