The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[SBstar]

But I bet you guys deal with some rediculously high temps in the summer at least right? Slows you down a bit? Somethings gotta even out here haha!

A buddy is fabricating me some rear subframe and mustache brace bushings and is almost done with the set so I should have those within a week or so. Being mine are totally shot that'll be a nice addition. I'm actually going to install them on a spare subframe I have laying around. I'm going to clean it up and paint it, stick the new bushings in and install it. Since I already have the driveshaft and T-case out might as well do it now before I create more work. I know that rear end is a pain in the butt and pulling that rear subframe probably won't be fun but it'll be worth it. I might even get some weights for everything.

 

[TSimage]

But I bet you guys deal with some rediculously high temps in the summer at least right? Slows you down a bit? Somethings gotta even out here haha!

A buddy is fabricating me some rear subframe and mustache brace bushings and is almost done with the set so I should have those within a week or so. Being mine are totally shot that'll be a nice addition. I'm actually going to install them on a spare subframe I have laying around. I'm going to clean it up and paint it, stick the new bushings in and install it. Since I already have the driveshaft and T-case out might as well do it now before I create more work. I know that rear end is a pain in the butt and pulling that rear subframe probably won't be fun but it'll be worth it. I might even get some weights for everything.

We get some somewhat hot days but all that does is make the track absolutely perfect at night time to race. Warm-hot track, nice clear weather, no wind, and cooler air temps perfect for FI. Those are the best nights to go.

 

[SBstar]

You Cali guys suck

Reply from GT Fabrications about some lightweight parts.

Carbon 1G doors are about 12-14 lbs per side. Standard they are closer to about 14 lbs + - per side. If you are really concerned about the weight we try to cut down everything and keep it to a minimum and can get it closer to 10 lbs. Between carbon fiber and fiberglass the weight does not change by much. The differences would be strength and cost. Though in strength since it is not really a load bearing structure I would advise going with the fiberglass. You could save some money this way as well.

The 1G cf hatch is about 10 lbs.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,

Culver

GTF

Some good weight loss with those parts obviously.

 

[Phil1320]

Hey Phil, why isn't this on the dsmtuners times list yet

Eh, I don't know, it's just another 11.4 second dsm....

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Eh, I don't know, it's just another 11.4 second dsm....

The difference between yours and the next guys is a 10mph difference in the trap.

 

[1SloEvo]

There have got to be more guys with similar speeds/traps/etc. I know an Evo is different, but I've seen one go 11.5x @ 119 on a 1.6x 60' and another one go 11.38 @ 120 on a 1.58 60'. Very similar numbers with exception to the 60'. These are still mostly full weight Evos well over 3k lb.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

There have got to be more guys with similar speeds/traps/etc. I know an Evo is different, but I've seen one go 11.5x @ 119 on a 1.6x 60' and another one go 11.38 @ 120 on a 1.58 60'. Very similar numbers with exception to the 60'. These are still mostly full weight Evos well over 3k lb.

Not entirely what i ment. Most people don't push there setup to the maximum, so they put on a bigger turbo and roll with it. Just seen this for example.. [email protected] with a DBB 3575. Probably close to a full weight car on street tires..Only cut a 1.8 60'

 

[1SloEvo]

There is still a lot left in that setup with the numbers. I understand what you're saying, but I've also seen a 3900lb GT500 go 11.4 @ 129mph on a 2.1 60' and a mediocre driver. That said, the setup on that car you reference and the GT500 I refer to have a lot left in them with only a driver mod!

But I get what you are saying...just saying there are lots of cars like that out there.

 

[SBstar]

There might be alot of cars out there like that, but not many dsms that's for sure! Obviously the lack of HP shows up in the lack of mph, but the ET shows just how hard he drives that car! Quicky 60ft, quick shifts, and light weight make it impressive. So it's not "just" another 11.4 dsm. Now We're all chasing you down so there will be a couple more in that category, we've just got to work on our driver mod.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

So it's not "just" another 11.4 dsm.

Well, the 11.49 isn't exactly the impressive piece.., because there are quite a few 11.4x cars. The impressive piece is the trap that goes along with the 11.49. Thats all i was getting at. I seen some people recommend Phil for the featured member, and i just can't see it right now. Nothing against Phil, but even as he puts it he has the 14b record for the most basic car. Essentially its a stock motor, and a car that weighs nothing with a good driver. Now once Phil gets the engine build together absolutely!

 

[1SloEvo]

I'm hoping I can come close to reaching his numbers this year on my Laser...with the stock motor and 14b. Going to be tough, but we'll see how it turns out.

Honestly, the 11.4 is pretty impressive in itself. I've seen a lot of people just hoping to run 12s on the 14b (although they aren't willing to completely strip their car). The timeslip is still very impressive throughout the run.

 

[Phil1320]

Hmmm....never knew anyone nominated me for feature car. That's cool. I know what you guys are saying about the other 11.4 cars. Basically, I light them up all the way down the track and they meet me at the line. I definitely have the funner ride down the strip. Honestly, my interest is fading, so no big deal about not being a feature car here on the site. I don't think me doing engine work makes the car more of a feature car, in fact I think it's more of a feature car the way it was. I was supposed to get photos taken for Drag Sport a few years back but my trailer ride down to Maple Grove was foiled so I never met up with Ferrara. That was my one chance for a magazine article I think, oh well. If I make it out on June 10, that will probably be my last time at the strip on the 14b, quite possibly the last time at the strip period with the Talon. This whole thing has gone way beyone my scope of interest, therefore, I'm losing interest. Maybe I'll slap an EVO 3 on and go make some passes, most likely being kicked off the track after the first pass, if that doesn't happen on the 14b. I just refuse to put a "drag race" rollbar in the car. When stuff gets welded in, it will be with the focus of road racing, chassis stiffening, safety and less on keeping the weight down. So, that's where I'm at....close to resignation.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Ughh! Yeah.., a 11.49 on a 14b is impressive, but i was saying step away from that. Don't look at the turbo. Just look at the 11.49.. It only becomes impressive when all the other numbers come together. You seeing what i mean? If Phil just said i ran 11.49 without mentioning anything else its not very impressive. Well, 11.49 isn't to shabby, but hopfully you understand what im trying to get at by now.

Honestly, my interest is fading, so no big deal about not being a feature car here on the site. I don't think me doing engine work makes the car more of a feature car, in fact I think it's more of a feature car the way it was. I was supposed to be in Drag Sport a few years back but my trailer ride down to Maple Grove was foiled so I never met up with Ferrara. That was my one chance I think, oh well. If I make it out on June 10, that will probably be my last time at the strip on the 14b, quite possibly the last time at the strip period with the Talon.

So, you've lost interest because of the levels of which those you are competing againt you are willing to go? That's just the name of the game. Run the car at the shootout with a 16g.. Its a rented out track day, so you won't be booted.

 

[Phil1320]

Ughh! Yeah.., a 11.49 on a 14b is impressive, but i was saying step away from that. Don't look at the turbo. Just look at the 11.49.. It only becomes impressive when all the other numbers come together. You seeing what i mean? If Phil just said i ran 11.49 without mentioning anything else its not very impressive. Well, 11.49 isn't to shabby, but hopfully you understand what im trying to get at by now.



So, you've lost interest because of the levels of which those you are competing againt you are willing to go? That's just the name of the game. Run the car at the shootout with a 16g.. Its a rented out track day, so you won't be booted.

Not at all, I could care less about what my competitors do honestly, everyone has their own path. I've been drag racing on the 14b for 14 years, I bet you were in grade school then. I've been slowly losing interest since 2005 or so. Even though I've gone faster, and broke new ground. It's just not as gratifying anymore. Like I said elsewhere, when I grabbed my first ever 11 second timeslip, 11.81@116, I cracked a slight smile, and breathed a sigh of relief, that's it. When I ran 11.59, I cheered a bit, because I knew I had beaten Leon again. If there's anyone I like to beat, it's him. And now I've got several timeslips that are quicker than his best of 11.64. Hell, I blew the turbo and was only 2 tenths off his best. I need to keep in mind that he wasn't record hunting though....he just decided to accidentally stop at the dragstrip for a Sunday drive.

I'm not willing to go anywhere near the levels that you and many others are going. I have ZERO interest in that type of in depth approach to this. Not to mention, the money can be better spent on my other car interests. I appreciate the people that follow what I do up here, however, at this point, I think I do it more because of their enthusiasm and support than I do for myself.

I would rather spend $ on a lightweight, larger brake set up, for road racing, then spend it to go drive for 11 seconds and stop once.....seems foolish to spend that kind of money on a brake set up to stop ONCE. Foolish isn't the right word, it's DUMB. My opinion of course. You wanna drop weight off the brakes on a 14b car....just take the damn brakes off the car entirely, theres enough runout at any track for 120 mph........

So, you guys go on and do what you're gonna do, good luck with it, hope you all run well.......but, it's almost time for me to exit stage left and move to something that will light my automotive fire again.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

So, you're not even going to build the engine and atleast run it down the track a few more times? You're qutting on a very interesting note.

 

[1SloEvo]

He could scrap the car and be done with it altogether. But I'm sure he'll hang around and at least offer input when he sees fit. Everyone moves on at some point in time...he reached the fork in the road and chose the "other" path. I honestly think it's great. After 14 years on the 14b...once my car is running I'll be lucky to make it 14 months without swapping it up for something bigger!

 

[SBstar]

He'll be out this year on the new stuff, MB will make sure of it I bet! I don't disagree though, I'm still new to drag racing so it's alot of fun right now, but after several years going in a straight line can only produce so much excitement and your car interests turn.

Featured member I nominated him, and Dave actually. Both these guys contribute alot to the small turbo community, it's less about their cars then it's about who they are in the community. They hold back no "secrets" and freely assist others with suggestions.

Completely understand what you mean about the 11.4, unless you hear the trap speed and understand the 14b turbo aspect it would look like another mid 11 second car out there. But knowing more about it makes it really impressive.

And no one has gone to any of those "levels" yet. We'll see if they ever do, I still buy into my theory that half these people will give up before they do anything, ok, more then half. Looking back at 2009 all the crazy setup people disappeared, I don't expect alot out of the 2010 people either. Wth that said I hope we do see some good things this year.

 

[FonZ454]

Not entirely what i ment. Most people don't push there setup to the maximum, so they put on a bigger turbo and roll with it. Just seen this for example.. [email protected] with a DBB 3575. Probably close to a full weight car on street tires..Only cut a 1.8 60'

I wouldn't say pushing to the maximum, but more so a car's setup. Not everyone wants to spend money on slicks and making the car 60' well... That car is likely very fast from a roll etc... Nor is everyone all about track numbers. There's lot of street action that goes on and so on. I wouldn't say a setup isn't maximized...

And I'm not defending, as I'm part of the more-so-maxed small turbo and good e/t-no-mph club .

but big turbos are FUN no matter the e/t.

 

[1SloEvo]

Up over 450lb of weight removal...still haven't touched the doors, hood, hatch or done any "hacking" of the interior. Removed the front piece of the driver side motor mount, my front door speakers (which I had planned to keep at first) removed the interior door handles and locking mechanisms and removed the A/C mounting bracket from the block. All that added up to 32lb. I also removed a bit of sound deadening, but I didn't weigh that.

 

[Phil1320]

There might be alot of cars out there like that, but not many dsms that's for sure! Obviously the lack of HP shows up in the lack of mph, but the ET shows just how hard he drives that car! Quicky 60ft, quick shifts, and light weight make it impressive. So it's not "just" another 11.4 dsm. Now We're all chasing you down so there will be a couple more in that category, we've just got to work on our driver mod.

Thanks Shane! I've done my best.

So, you're not even going to build the engine and atleast run it down the track a few more times? You're qutting on a very interesting note.

If the engine appears to be worn or damaged in any way, then I will engage in a full disassembly and go from there, otherwise, it's slap the cams/valve springs in and the head goes back on. As far as the bottom end, nothing except balance shaft removal will happen down there if all looks good. I'd like to do higher comp pistons, but, eh, for what? If it ain't broke don't fix it is what I'm going with.

Again.......quitting, is not what I said. Resignation was the word.

He could scrap the car and be done with it altogether. But I'm sure he'll hang around and at least offer input when he sees fit. Everyone moves on at some point in time...he reached the fork in the road and chose the "other" path. I honestly think it's great. After 14 years on the 14b...once my car is running I'll be lucky to make it 14 months without swapping it up for something bigger!

I will definitely keep my Talon, even though there will be some different marque's making their way into my garage. I love my talon, and all 1G DSM's for that matter. People still think my talon is new when they see it. And that's part of it, way back in '90.....the body style was super sleek and slippery...pretty much what all the supercars of today are.

I'll be around for sure, not gonna disappear. And, it's not so much that I don't want the 14b on the car anymore, I just don't want to drag race too much longer with that car at all. By what I've been through with the talon, and how long I've been at it, you would think I'm a die-hard drag race fan. Whelp, I'm not......I'm a die-hard road racing fan. I like all racing, but my interest peaks with road racing. Having been drag racing for so long, the time, and money, has primarily been spent on that. So, I finally got back to doing some track days in '07 with the EVO and in '08 with my Forester XT. But, now again, two full seasons have gone by and haven't been at a track day.

For those who don't know, I drag raced the Talon for the first time in October '97 and have been drag racing it ever since.

I also took the Talon to my first road course track day at Lime Rock here in CT in November '97......and haven't been back with it since. It's time to put the Talon back on the road course and exercise all of it's other abilities, not just the straight line. So, that's where it's headed, maybe not this year, but I can say that drag racing will not be it's sole purpose after 2011.

Last, I know I've said this elsewhere but I will repeat it here as it's relevant. I just can't bring myself to do anything further to the car that is drag race only....and that's a contributing factor here. Examples:

-another set of lighter 15" wheels
-Kirkey drag race seat
-solid brake discs with small rotors
-1 gallon fuel cell

...etc........

So, that kinda road blocks me as far as going any further with weight reduction in that respect. So, it's all about power, and as I've stated above and elsewhere, I'm gonna take the simplist way out with the least amount of mods.

Because, that's what I do. That's what I've always done with this car. So, why change? As you can see, it's worked out well for me.

-Phil

Up over 450lb of weight removal...still haven't touched the doors, hood, hatch or done any "hacking" of the interior. Removed the front piece of the driver side motor mount, my front door speakers (which I had planned to keep at first) removed the interior door handles and locking mechanisms and removed the A/C mounting bracket from the block. All that added up to 32lb. I also removed a bit of sound deadening, but I didn't weigh that.

That's a good bit and you are thinking outside the box already with weight removal and you have to if it's gonna be significant. Do you still run power steering? The bracket on the left side(front) of the block there that supports the power steering pump and runs behind the water pipe is another 7.5 lbs. or so......

 

[1SloEvo]

Power steering was one of the first things to go. However, that bracket is one of the one's I just removed!

I weighed the glass windows from the doors. They came in at 8 lb each. I'm guessing their counterparts are half that weight if not less.

I'm glad you're moving on to something that interests you Phil. These cars have so much potential in most any motorsport venue when built accordingly.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

If it ain't broke don't fix it is what I'm going with.

Doesn't have to be broke to want more power. I tossed my perfectly running stock motor for my built 8.5:1 motor. Ill be tossing my 8.5:1 motor for my aluminum high compression motor next year..

Again.......quitting, is not what I said. Resignation was the word.

Call it whatever you wish

I also took the Talon to my first road course track day at Lime Rock here in CT in November '97......and haven't been back with it since.

I was going to ask how often you road raced. Thats exactly what im building my car for. I love lime rock -- Lets do it up.

Edit: Minus the half rad and water/air =X

 

[Phil1320]

Doesn't have to be broke to want more power. I tossed my perfectly running stock motor for my built 8.5:1 motor. Ill be tossing my 8.5:1 motor for my aluminum high compression motor next year..


Call it whatever you wish



I was going to ask how often you road raced. Thats exactly what im building my car for. I love lime rock -- Lets do it up.

Edit: Minus the half rad and water/air =X

Actually, you call it whatever you wish, because what you say has 0% relavance to anything I've done and will do in the DSM world. I don't care who you know, who your tuner is, or how much power you make. You are an inexperienced newbie in my book. Once you learn to respect those who came WAY before you and not be so in awe of people that produce big dyno sheets, then and only then will you have matured in a way that I might want to hold a conversation with you. Until then, I'll shut you up with my driving. Nothing else needs to be said....except....

.....not only will I kick your ass down the dragstrip, now I can beat you and your horspower monster down on the roadcourse too. Now, that's what I call fun.

Power steering was one of the first things to go. However, that bracket is one of the one's I just removed!

I weighed the glass windows from the doors. They came in at 8 lb each. I'm guessing their counterparts are half that weight if not less.

I'm glad you're moving on to something that interests you Phil. These cars have so much potential in most any motorsport venue when built accordingly.

Very cool! That's actually a bracket that will be making it's way back onto my car for the roadcourse work. I want to build my triceps back up, but not with a steering wheel!

8lbs. sounds right, I think I weighed mine at 7.5...don't remember what scale though!

Thanks for the words...much appreciated. I've held on long enough I think. The guys up here that have supported me over the years are a big reason as to why I continued on with it. That's where alot of my motivation came from, along with a handful of local guys that I know. Truthfully though, I've wanted to stop for sometime now. Without these guys I would definitely not have gone out this past year. I would have probably called it quits at 11.49. Even though I know there is more left. So, I will go out once more, whether it's June 10, or this fall. Don't know what the exact combination will be, but I'll be a bit lighter, have a better FMIC and 7cm E3 housing that I'm sure of. I'm not 100% about the cams and gears anymore, the more I think of it. We'll see. Better valve springs will help no matter what, especially if I mis-shift the car at the roadcourse. It will come down to the time needed to get the car back together.

Truthfully, it's all up in the air. Lots of things going on right now that take the majority of my time. That's life. I'll do what I can do, that's my promise.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Actually, you call it whatever you wish, because what you say has 0% relavance to anything I've done and will do in the DSM world. I don't care who you know, who your tuner is, or how much power you make. You are an inexperienced newbie in my book. Once you learn to respect those who came WAY before you and not be so in awe of people that produce big dyno sheets, then and only then will you have matured in a way that I might want to hold a conversation with you. Until then, I'll shut you up with my driving. Nothing else needs to be said....except....

.....not only will I kick your ass down the dragstrip, now I can beat you and your horspower monster down on the roadcourse too. Now, that's what I call fun.

Wtf are you talking about, and where did that come from.. Talking about your driving? Because i asked how often you road raced? I'm not sure whats going on right now..WTF. I think you took something the wrong way.

 

[Phil1320]

Wtf are you talking about, and where did that come from.. Talking about your driving? Because i asked how often you road raced? I'm not sure whats going on right now..WTF. I think you took something the wrong way.

You are suggesting I'm a quitter, rather than taking what I'm saying at face value.

Let me not use the word, "resignation."

I'll make this easy:

I'M SICK AND TIRED OF DRAG RACING MY TALON WITH THE STOCK 14B TURBO ON IT BECAUSE I'M AT THE POINT WHERE I PICK UP .05 SECONDS MAYBE AND IT BORES THE LIVING HELL OUT OF ME AND IT SEEMS LIKE I'M AT WORK RATHER THAN OUT FOR A FUN DAY AT THE TRACK. I GET TO STEP ON THE THROTTLE FOR 13-14 SECONDS AT A TIME AND STOP IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEN I HAVE TO PULL IN A LANE WITH A BUNCH OF OLD IRON AND WAIT AROUND TIL THE NEXT TIME I CAN HAMMER THE THROTTLE FOR ANOTHER 13-14 SECONDS(INCLUDING STUDDER TIME)AND THEN HIT THE BRAKES AGAIN.

Is that easy enough to understand? Is it easy enough to believe?

Drag racing USED to be fun for me. The novelty has worn off. Plain and simple, THE END.