The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[1SloEvo]

Yeah...I suppose so. Guess those thousandths won't turn into tenths. My bad.

 

[Phil1320]

Yeah...I suppose so. Guess those thousandths won't turn into tenths. My bad.

No big deal...but picture it hypothetically....same reaction time.

Joe is through the traps and done....no reeling in takes place here, anywhere.

 

[SBstar]

I see what both are saying. The thing to take away from it all though is that something in the 11.1 run provided a better back half then the 11.03. My guess is it was the shift rpm into 4th.

 

[Phil1320]

I see what both are saying. The thing to take away from it all though is that something in the 11.1 run provided a better back half then the 11.03. My guess is it was the shift rpm into 4th.

I would agree....and all that is in the seat time.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

so if joe ran 10.6 with nitrous and 10.87 without...what's this 10.73? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-iKcBtp_Gk]Joe Bucci's Laser on a pass. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[1qkfwd]

I know the air was so much better the Saturday that I ran the 11.11@126. I'll look over the logs and see what my shift points where on both runs.

 

[Phil1320]

so if joe ran 10.6 with nitrous and 10.87 without...what's this 10.73?

16g pass. Trap speed 132 mph...

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

16g pass. Trap speed 132 mph...

okay gotcha. Thanks

 

[SBstar]

I know the air was so much better the Saturday that I ran the 11.11@126. I'll look over the logs and see what my shift points where on both runs.

That could make a significant difference as well. Especially on the top end. And sorry Brandon, reading owned me, you were referring to the 11.11 run weren't you.

So on the 11.11 pass the back half took 3.873 seconds to cross, vs. the 11.03 run where it took 3.899. A difference of .026 which alone wouldn't quite make the 10's happen, but it'd be an ant fart away. Air density, shift rpm, with that small of a difference it's hard to say for sure what caused it.

 

[1SloEvo]

Yes Shane...now you see what I am looking at all around between Joe's record pass and the differences in Justin's two quickest passes!

 

[Phil1320]

Yes Shane...now you see what I am looking at all around between Joe's record pass and the differences in Justin's two quickest passes!

This is cool comparing and relevant to maybe helping Justin dial in the areas that need improvement. Unfortunately, the 3-4 shift would be the area of LEAST concern IMHO.

Also, we've got to compare best 1/4 ET to best 1/4 ET in the end.

So, I'd chuck the 11.11 pass in the bucket, because Justin did more 'right' on the 11.03, obviously.

Rather than looking the one thing that appears 'better' on the 11.11, look at all that was better on the 11.03.....

 

[SBstar]

This is cool comparing and relevant to maybe helping Justin dial in the areas that need improvement. Unfortunately, the 3-4 shift would be the area of LEAST concern IMHO.

Also, we've got to compare best 1/4 ET to best 1/4 ET in the end.

So, I'd chuck the 11.11 pass in the bucket, because Justin did more 'right' on the 11.03, obviously.

Rather than looking the one thing that appears 'better' on the 11.11, look at all that was better on the 11.03.....

Gotta disagree with you on this one Phil. I'd say the only thing done better on the 11.03 pass to the 11.11 was the 60'! I haven't ran all the numbers, but obviously a 1.628 60' on the 11.11 pass vs. the actual 1.758 would've been enough for 10's. Might be as simple as the weather, but I'd say there were some other factors in the pass as well.

 

[Phil1320]

Gotta disagree with you on this one Phil. I'd say the only thing done better on the 11.03 pass to the 11.11 was the 60'! I haven't ran all the numbers, but obviously a 1.628 60' on the 11.11 pass vs. the actual 1.758 would've been enough for 10's. Might be as simple as the weather, but I'd say there were some other factors in the pass as well.

That's fine.

If this isn't obvious, 60' is the most important thing in ANY 1/4 pass in ANY car, street or race.

And, now we're pulling the oh well if I did this on this run than I would have run XX.XX.

Not always the case. And either way you slice it, it didn't happen.

It's like saying some basketball player scored his career high, but, his team lost the game.

Doesn't matter what was better on the 11.11, it's slower than 11.03 last time I checked.

There's no such thing as a perfect run, there's always going to be room to improve something. And then there's the weather, elevation, crosswind, headwind, tailwind, track prep, blah, blah, blah.....

What's Justin talking about everyone? Gettin that 60' foot into the 1.5 range! It's the single most important thing he can do. And he can still be off in shift points by a couple hundred rpm and still beat his 11.03 and be in the 10's.

I mean seriously, we are talking about a hundredth of a second on the back half

 

[1qkfwd]

Just an FYI that 11.11 run was saturday the 11.03 run was sunday. The air was better saturday. The only reason the 60' time is so slow is that I short shifted first to second on the 11.11 pass. The rpms dropped very low and had a little lag having to pick back up.

Could that have been a 10 sec pass? Sure could've. Was it, nope. The car runs strong and I will get it sorted out. Im going to have to swap out my axles before I lay down any sort of good 60' times. Theres just to much play in the ones I have in now. Since I dont want to shell out the money for new axles, its going to be every pass has to count situation. So we will see what happens on the 23rd of this month.

 

[1qkfwd]

Another thing I got to thinking about. I definately have a better power to weight ratio than Joe did. He never ran near as close to the times/mph that I did on the fwd trans itself. Like I said before, Joe said he had to shift quicker with the awd trans. So what that tells me is that hes covering ground faster (which it shows in the et) and able to use the power band a little better. An equvalant is like me trying to use the long gears of an LS honda trans with a B16 N/A engine.

 

[Phil1320]

Another thing I got to thinking about. I definately have a better power to weight ratio than Joe did.

Well, this is obvious, unless you put the AWD tranny in and it chokes some mph.

 

[SBstar]

At what point did Joe swap to the awd trans?

 

[1qkfwd]

Well, this is obvious, unless you put the AWD tranny in and it chokes some mph.

Ill just have to swap and find out. I have an awd trans and the repair parts. After the april 7th race in sac I will probably swap it out. My goal was to get 10s on the fwd trans first then swap.

At what point did Joe swap to the awd trans?

Ok he told me that he swapped when he added the scatter shield. So in project goodwill towards the end he talks about swapping in the welded diff tranny and shield. So It was right before he hit 10s.

It was from these runs forward. You can see the trans and shield in the pics. Plus the trans looks different than any of the earlier pics. Goodwill9

Just noticed thats also when he swapped in the A2W core. I wonder if thats a big missing piece of the puzzle for extracting all the hp.

 

[SBstar]

Thanks, makes it easier to try to see how things changed. Looks like maybe his best with the fwd trans was [email protected] - But, he also swapped from the FP1's to Crower 413'2, fmic to the A2W, freshened head, lightened the car more and a few other things. Unfortunately that means we can't know for sure how much benefit the awd trans was as too many things changed.

I do think you'll be able to hit 10's with the fwd trans, maybe even take the record, but it'd be nice to have the direct swap to the awd trans without other changes and see the benefits.

 

[1qkfwd]

Thanks, makes it easier to try to see how things changed. Looks like maybe his best with the fwd trans was [email protected] - But, he also swapped from the FP1's to Crower 413'2, fmic to the A2W, freshened head, lightened the car more and a few other things. Unfortunately that means we can't know for sure how much benefit the awd trans was as too many things changed.

I do think you'll be able to hit 10's with the fwd trans, maybe even take the record, but it'd be nice to have the direct swap to the awd trans without other changes and see the benefits.

Ya he did change so much. Looks like he was on the awd trans for the shootout running low 11s. Then swapped out to a 2g manifold, aero front mod, and the 3" cold air intake and then went out and ran 10s. I can see the intake making a huge impact on times and mph with the little turbo. It did when we ran back to back test with one on our 16g car.

So kind of bench racing here but in therory, if I can dip a tenth or so away from the record with the fwd trans that puts me a few tenths ahead of him trans for trans. That would mean if the awd trans makes that much difference going down the 1/4, that I should be able to kill his record by a tenth or two. But like I said thats all bench talk.

Whos ran an a2w and logged the intake temp going into the engine? I wonder how low the temp is getting.

 

[Phil1320]

Ill just have to swap and find out. I have an awd trans and the repair parts. After the april 7th race in sac I will probably swap it out. My goal was to get 10s on the fwd trans first then swap.



Ok he told me that he swapped when he added the scatter shield. So in project goodwill towards the end he talks about swapping in the welded diff tranny and shield. So It was right before he hit 10s.

It was from these runs forward. You can see the trans and shield in the pics. Plus the trans looks different than any of the earlier pics. Goodwill9

Just noticed thats also when he swapped in the A2W core. I wonder if thats a big missing piece of the puzzle for extracting all the hp.

Well, hopefully you'll hit that goal, even if it's 10.999...

I would say A2W as a last resort, if even necessary. I'd exhaust all your other tricks first, but, that's me.

 

[1qkfwd]

Well, hopefully you'll hit that goal, even if it's 10.999...

I would say A2W as a last resort, if even necessary. I'd exhaust all your other tricks first, but, that's me.

Those are my exact thoughts to. My temps never got over 111 on a hot day. So as long as they stay consistant I'm ok. I did start cleaning and straightening every fin on my IC last night. I'm gonna duct it to so the full face gets outside air. I'm gonna try a few tricks to see if I can get the temps down to around 100

 

[Phil1320]

Those are my exact thoughts to. My temps never got over 111 on a hot day. So as long as they stay consistant I'm ok. I did start cleaning and straightening every fin on my IC last night. I'm gonna duct it to so the full face gets outside air. I'm gonna try a few tricks to see if I can get the temps down to around 100

Nice. It'll be all this little stuff together that'll make the difference.

Well, next trip soon man. Good luck!

 

[1qkfwd]

Nice. It'll be all this little stuff together that'll make the difference.

Well, next trip soon man. Good luck!

Thanks Phil. Less than two weeks. Gotta finish my ducting, change out axles, and a few tech items. I'm more interested in cutting some 1.5s on this outing.

 

[1SloEvo]

I think the fmic is going to cool the air temps just fine if it's a decent core. However, I think the biggest issue from a fmic is pressure drop. When you are trying to get the most flow from a tiny turbo and a big intercooler has 1 psi of pressure drop compared to .1 psi on an A2W core, there is power to be gained. However, I agree that a good fmic will be sufficient to get the car down the track to a new record time.