The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[emo1010]

thanks everyone! To be honest other than being an hour+ drive from the track that limited the number of time we could go, this was some of the most fun i ever had with a car.

Every time we went out we improved, the couple times we broke were basic simple fixes. One time was not really broken just a loose wire the other was a result of 30+ passes at 25psi on a 14b with 120k on it( can't realy blame it for giving up the ghost).

Info on tuning is really basic it had 450's in so all we had to do was compensate for the c-16. i think we were about -8 across the board on the s-afc. The power was pretty smooth, made it down low typical 14b. I think the key to high boost on the 14b was the liquid to air, we would come back to the pits and the intercooler and charge pipe would be cold.

60' foot was low 1.7 to high 1.6.


It has been almost two years since we had this car so it's hard to remember all the details.
Also to give credit where it is due, we copied alot of what Joe B. did. For reasons beyond this project we were lucky to have been friends with Joe for while. His advice( and many old parts) on this project were priceless.

The best bit of advice I can give is keeping it simple works!!
i have a few pics but none that show the fuel cell well...it was mounted in the fender justin front of the driver side tire.
If you have any more question let me know.

 

[Phil1320]

Hahaha All that I'v done is collect parts and get the shell home. No work has been done yet.

I hear you there. It's too cold to do anything at this point. At least you have the car back now.

 

[FonZ454]

That is an AWESOME setup. So simple.

and 11.7 with a 113mph trap is insane! great driving!

 

[Nate Crisman]

I hear you there. It's too cold to do anything at this point. At least you have the car back now.

It's going to be a few week till I can get the yellow 1g into the garage to start working on it. I'll have the gaskets to start putting an engine together this week. I have two bad trans that I can combine into one working gearbox. So I can start working on putting a drivetrain together right away.

One thing I want to do before installing anything is to remove the subframes, clean off the bottom of the car from years of oil leak, then go over everything with a coat of POR15. Cars are so much nicer to work on when they are spotless clean and sanitary. Unfortunately, the shell has to stay on the lift during that whole procedure and that keeps me from working on partouts.

I'll assemble the whole engine/trans/turbo and set it on the engine mounts/subframe sitting on a pallet. Then lower the unibody onto the subframes. Basically install everything in one big shot. Same with the rear suspension/diff/axles/brakes.


Anyway, Iv got a 1g awd auto to part out first, and building a motor and trans, then sourcing a significant chunk of oddball parts before I even think of bringing the car into the garage and getting it stuck there. I'm shooting for maybe mid march to have it up and running. Need to get my butt in gear that's for sure.

 

[Phil1320]

It's going to be a few week till I can get the yellow 1g into the garage to start working on it. I'll have the gaskets to start putting an engine together this week. I have two bad trans that I can combine into one working gearbox. So I can start working on putting a drivetrain together right away.

One thing I want to do before installing anything is to remove the subframes, clean off the bottom of the car from years of oil leak, then go over everything with a coat of POR15. Cars are so much nicer to work on when they are spotless clean and sanitary. Unfortunately, the shell has to stay on the lift during that whole procedure and that keeps me from working on partouts.

I'll assemble the whole engine/trans/turbo and set it on the engine mounts/subframe sitting on a pallet. Then lower the unibody onto the subframes. Basically install everything in one big shot. Same with the rear suspension/diff/axles/brakes.


Anyway, Iv got a 1g awd auto to part out first, and building a motor and trans, then sourcing a significant chunk of oddball parts before I even think of bringing the car into the garage and getting it stuck there. I'm shooting for maybe mid march to have it up and running. Need to get my butt in gear that's for sure.

That's cool, at least you have a garage to be able to work on it in the off season. I'd love to fully disassemble my car and have it dipped. My car had "Rusty Jones" applied to it per the original owner and that stuff is thick and heavy. There is still quite a bit of it on the undercarriage and on the rear subframe, gas tank, and mustache brace. It would be great to start fresh like that, but, that's for some day in the future. If you brush on POR15 it's gonna add some weight, if you're just racing the car and it's not going to see rain, I would rattle can it to keep the application thin, but that's me and that's the way I think when it comes to weight reduction.

Well, I'll watch for the progress pics. Can't wait to see what you can muster!

 

[Nate Crisman]

That's cool, at least you have a garage to be able to work on it in the off season. I'd love to fully disassemble my car and have it dipped. My car had "Rusty Jones" applied to it per the original owner and that stuff is thick and heavy. There is still quite a bit of it on the undercarriage and on the rear subframe, gas tank, and mustache brace. It would be great to start fresh like that, but, that's for some day in the future. If you brush on POR15 it's gonna add some weight, if you're just racing the car and it's not going to see rain, I would rattle can it to keep the application thin, but that's me and that's the way I think when it comes to weight reduction.

Well, I'll watch for the progress pics. Can't wait to see what you can muster!

POR 15 dries thin and hard like a powdercoating. It's not at all like what your thinking of a heavy thick undercoating or what's already on the car from the factory. When I did my GVR4, I got the entire car coated, including all suspension members, subframe, fuel tank, engine block, all motor mounts, brakes, hubs, calipers. Damn near everything was completely covered with less than 2 quarts. The stuff spreads really thin and smooth, even over crusty rusty surfaces.

I'll be ok with the couple lb of weight since Im honestly planning to keep this car "forever" and eventually give it to my two sons someday. The car is going to be stored outside when I have a parts car on the lift, so it will see rain/snow and moisture pretty often.

 

[Phil1320]

POR 15 dries thin and hard like a powdercoating. It's not at all like what your thinking of a heavy thick undercoating or what's already on the car from the factory. When I did my GVR4, I got the entire car coated, including all suspension members, subframe, fuel tank, engine block, all motor mounts, brakes, hubs, calipers. Damn near everything was completely covered with less than 2 quarts. The stuff spreads really thin and smooth, even over crusty rusty surfaces.

I'll be ok with the couple lb of weight since Im honestly planning to keep this car "forever" and eventually give it to my two sons someday. The car is going to be stored outside when I have a parts car on the lift, so it will see rain/snow and moisture pretty often.

I know, I've used it in the past. I hear you on having the car sit outside though. Any paint adds weight and brushing on obviously adds more, that's the reason I haven't painted my interior after all the sound deadening material came out. It all adds up. Once the rollbar/cage goes in and the 14b quest is over I will definitely paint it up nice.

 

[Gooberlog]

I know, I've used it in the past. I hear you on having the car sit outside though. Any paint adds weight and brushing on obviously adds more, that's the reason I haven't painted my interior after all the sound deadening material came out. It all adds up. Once the rollbar/cage goes in and the 14b quest is over I will definitely paint it up nice.

Gotta make sure you look good when road racing with the high rollers out there. Can't have them hating on the talon and give them fuel to that fire.

 

[pneumo]

That gives me an idea to save weight- use a wire wheel to remove the undercoating! It's OK if it starts to rust since rust is just a self lightening process.

 

[Phil1320]

Gotta make sure you look good when road racing with the high rollers out there. Can't have them hating on the talon and give them fuel to that fire.

Trav, yeah, I'll want it to be aesthetically pleasing for sure, but as it is now, it will be secondary to the driving end of things. The only reason my talon looks the way it does is when it was still a street car I did keep it as shiny and clean as possible and always made sure nothing under my hood looked like a hack. Obviously, being out of the elements now, the car stays pretty darn clean.

As far as the guys at the track days hatin on the talon......hmmmm, probably not! The talon will be so much quicker at the roadcourse than my EVO was, and most definitely quicker than the Forester XT. However, the EVO with a cat-back and downpipe only held it's own against many STI's putting down 350 AWHP and other assorted cars like 911 turbos. I actually got more props with the Forester, being it's an SUV, the most notable from a Mustang guy and a guy in a newer model 500HP Viper. I remember him saying how he just couldn't gain on me in the corners! Of course, on the front straight, the almighty Viper would pass me....sounding like the usual Viper, with your eyes closed you'd think a Greyhound Bus was passing you fast Anyway, I think the talon will surprise for sure on the roadcourse. And, after some thought, the car may be moving in that direction sooner than later.......

That gives me an idea to save weight- use a wire wheel to remove the undercoating! It's OK if it starts to rust since rust is just a self lightening process.

If I could run it like a Delorean I would.....let me know how it turns out! You could actually be reducing weight as you drive....now that's awesome

 

[Gooberlog]

Sorry i shouldn't have brought that up. I just figured you'd get the normal "junk dsm" remarks that some of us do. But i guess if your faster than them, they'll have to put their foot in their mouths.

 

[Phil1320]

Sorry i shouldn't have brought that up. I just figured you'd get the normal "junk dsm" remarks that some of us do. But i guess if your faster than them, they'll have to put their foot in their mouths.

No biggie. The roadrace world is a bit different in my experience. Well, there's smack talking in everything, first off. But, at track days, we aren't "racing" first of all. Everyone seems to take an interest in what others are doing and it's pretty friendly. Even Mustang guys don't talk smack at track days. It's not like the dragstrip with the normal clowns hanging around running their mouths. I used to get involved in all that years ago and actually loved being right in the middle. The other thing that I really like about track days is that it's almost like a car show, but better because people are actually driving, so you can hear all the different engines, see how these cars perform, while learning better car control yourself. The last trackday I was at in November of 08 there were two GT-R's there, which was cool to see, instead of on the showroom floor. Then there are always, Porsche GT2's and GT3's, every car you can think of basically and it's just awesome. If I were to take it as far as sancitioned racing, I would be screwed because the 2 door talon gets a weight penalty I think. I would be more competitive in an EVO, or the Galant would probably not fall victim to the rules negatively. My plan is to just go have fun. Anyway, I'm way off the 14b drag race topic here..............

....so to get back on it, I'll talk about my latest douchebag encounter at the dragstrip. I think it was back in May. Some Mustang was next to me in the staging lanes...apparently some "10 second car for $3500" article featured the car in a Mustang magazine. The owner and his buddy came over to look under the hood of the talon. They asked what turbo I was running. I said the stock 14b. The reply was, "NO WAY" and they walked away laughing. Well, guess what? We lined up.....he broke, I smoked his lame ass piece of crap fox body junk(can you tell I hate Mustangs?)

Guess who was laughing then? This is the crap you deal with at dragstrips. And, yes, I've been beaten by Mustangs before. But, I've beaten more than 90% of them, maybe more like 95%. They were always the biggest talkers, and also the worst drivers. Even if they had a car that could take me, they lost.

 

[pneumo]

HA nice!
One of my favorite drag race stories just happens to involve a Mustang, too.

I was in the staging lanes waiting for my first run. It was a long drive, so I kicked the seat back and tried to take a nap while waiting. I heard a guy near my car shouting "225's!" and another guy farther away said "what?"
The first guy shouted again, "He's got 225's!" and I saw him stand up from next to my front tire. The guy far away shouted back, "That's weak, ha, I have bigger tires on the front of my car!"
So I propped my seat up and looked at the car I was lined up against. It was a 5.0 with parts of the interior hand painted red. Yes his front tires were bigger than mine, he had 235's. I'm sure his rear tires were even larger- I didn't look- I didn't care. Why was he looking at my front tires? He thought my car was FWD!

So we line up and trip the starting lights. I do the usual stutterbox launch and take off hard. In second gear I get a chance to glance in the mirror. I see the Mustang back at the starting line with lots of smoke around his rear tires, and I think to myself, "nono you're supposed to do the burnout before the green light" Needless to say I won that race by a long shot. I was running low 12's at that time.

The best part about racing at the track is the time slip shows the results for both cars. The Mustang ran a mid 14, not even close to me. Even better was his 60' time: 3.0 ! He must've dumped the clutch, floored it and sat there unmoving while watching me take off. I can almost see the look of horror on his face as he helplessly watched me disappear in the distance. That's the best revenge ever!

 

[Gooberlog]

You should've rolled over to his rustang and said, Your $hit's weak!

 

[Phil1320]

HA nice!
One of my favorite drag race stories just happens to involve a Mustang, too.

I was in the staging lanes waiting for my first run. It was a long drive, so I kicked the seat back and tried to take a nap while waiting. I heard a guy near my car shouting "225's!" and another guy farther away said "what?"
The first guy shouted again, "He's got 225's!" and I saw him stand up from next to my front tire. The guy far away shouted back, "That's weak, ha, I have bigger tires on the front of my car!"
So I propped my seat up and looked at the car I was lined up against. It was a 5.0 with parts of the interior hand painted red. Yes his front tires were bigger than mine, he had 235's. I'm sure his rear tires were even larger- I didn't look- I didn't care. Why was he looking at my front tires? He thought my car was FWD!

So we line up and trip the starting lights. I do the usual stutterbox launch and take off hard. In second gear I get a chance to glance in the mirror. I see the Mustang back at the starting line with lots of smoke around his rear tires, and I think to myself, "nono you're supposed to do the burnout before the green light" Needless to say I won that race by a long shot. I was running low 12's at that time.

The best part about racing at the track is the time slip shows the results for both cars. The Mustang ran a mid 14, not even close to me. Even better was his 60' time: 3.0 ! He must've dumped the clutch, floored it and sat there unmoving while watching me take off. I can almost see the look of horror on his face as he helplessly watched me disappear in the distance. That's the best revenge ever!

Awesome! I love the story and have so many similar ones. These guys literally used to make me laugh too, making comments like the one in your story! That's why I miss the street nights when my car was still full street, sure the car was alot slower, but consistent 12.1-12.2 passes was enough to hand most of those guys a pretty embarrassing loss. Nice Dave! I can't imagine having a 10.7 second street driven car.....sure bigger turbo under the hood that suggests some serious speed, but either way, that's enough to take down many other kinds of cars.....

You should've rolled over to his rustang and said, Your $hit's weak!

I never saw the guy again after that. But, I'm sure if I visited the local junk yard up there, I could find the car

And if I haven't said it before, along with crappy driving, never have I met bigger excuse makers than Mustang drivers.

Them- "Well, you have AWD" Me- "That's becasue I'm smart and you're stupid"

Them- "Well, you have a turbo" Me- "And you have 4 more cylinders"

Them- "Well, you have traction and I don't" Me- "and you still think adding more power will let you beat me"

Them- "Well if I had a turbo..." Me- "You'd be spinning tires worse than you already do"

Them- "Well if you put all the weight back in your car then I would win"
Me- "Well, you lost, so pull weight out of your car, and you'll still lose"

Them- "I only want to roll race"
Me- "Been embarrassed too much already huh?"

I could go on and on. I used to mess with these guys so much and I loved it.

And I was "only" on the stock turbo with no fuel control.

Fun times

 

[Gooberlog]

Back in my early dsm days I was messing around with a LS1 trans am, wrx and a FD rx7. When i pulled up to the trans am, i told him to tell his buddies i was on a stock turbo. He looked at me and said "yeah right." Made me feel so good.

 

[Phil1320]

Back in my early dsm days I was messing around with a LS1 trans am, wrx and a FD rx7. When i pulled up to the trans am, i told him to tell his buddies i was on a stock turbo. He looked at me and said "yeah right." Made me feel so good.

Doesn't it? These guys just can't handle how fast our cars go with so little done, they always were in denial. It also makes me just laugh my ass off. I remember riding in a friends '90 Talon AWD(14b)and lining up with an older Mustang at a stop light. There was a little back and forth between us and him, basically telling him he had a nice car, FOR A MUSTANG which got him heated and running his mouth and then....light turns green, we were GONE and as we hit 3rd gear with about 6-8 cars on him, my buddy threw neutral and we just coasted as we were laughing so damn hard we couldn't see

Isn't it just hilarious how V8 guys make excuses to us "little" 4 cylinder guys? One of the Mustang clowns that consistantly talked smack to me says to me one night, "now I have a 4 cylinder that's gonna take you down." I laughed. Sure enough, one night, this idiot rolls up next to me revving the throttle in his Merkur XR4ti......I actually like the car in it's defense, but, I shut that guy up for good that night. Anyway, I hate to get off topic so much lately, but, it's 14b related, and I started the thread so

I do miss the days of street. Super fun, and absolutley funny as hell to boot

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

Well im rebuilding my shortblock but i currently have 22 inches of snow around my car and its hard to get the engine out . Another 8 inches coming tomorrow. And i only have about 2 hours a day to get something done since im working 7-3 this week.

 

[Phil1320]

Well im rebuilding my shortblock but i currently have 22 inches of snow around my car and its hard to get the engine out . Another 8 inches coming tomorrow. And i only have about 2 hours a day to get something done since im working 7-3 this week.

It all takes alot of time that we generally don't have enough of. I'm sure you'll get it done in time to lay it down at the strip this year.

Yeah, you guys got clobbered with snow. Crazy that we got none up here in CT, but I think we'll get it tomorrow too.

Seems like alot of you guys interested in the 14b are from PA. Well, small piece of trivia....I was born in Harrisburg and lived there the first 10 years of my life. I'm there quite a bit actually visiting family. So, as much as I rep CT., I also rep PA. and all my favorite sports teams are PA. teams.

So, I want to see all you guys represent!

 

[SBstar]

Well sorta on topic, got my block and crank back from the machine shop. The shop was amazing and were extremely helpful with everything, explaining what I absolutely must do, and what I could do myself.

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For those who haven't read previous posts. .020 over 2g pistons, 1g rods, pretty much a stock rebuild due to some bearings i fried. Should be putting it together early next week! I'm going to clean up a few more things in the engine bay and paint the block first of course.

 

[hookedOnDsm]

guy's i check up on this thread often, and i dont even own a dsm.

i love reading about these 14b cars run such sick time's.

Phil's car really caught my eye, i'd love to see the race weight "interior" AKA inner shell.

the car is sick!! do you have dyno numbers on pump gas?

 

[Phil1320]

Awesome Shane! Nice way to get back on topic! Some day I hope to actually build up or refresh my engine like that. It looks great and should be a strong foundation for speed on the 14b.....keep us posted on the progress.

guy's i check up on this thread often, and i dont even own a dsm.

i love reading about these 14b cars run such sick time's.

Phil's car really caught my eye, i'd love to see the race weight "interior" AKA inner shell.

the car is sick!! do you have dyno numbers on pump gas?

Ask, and you shall receive! Thanks for the props! I do not have pump gas dyno numbers unfortunately.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Damn, how much does your car weigh again? ^
If it were me Id paint all the metal in the interior black so it would look cleaner, but I know your probably worried about the 2 or 3 lbs a couple cans of paint will add huh .

 

[Phil1320]

Damn, how much does your car weigh again? ^
If it were me Id paint all the metal in the interior black so it would look cleaner, but I know your probably worried about the 2 or 3 lbs a couple cans of paint will add huh .

Should be right about 2370 or so with very little gas in the tank. True, I will not paint it yet, correct, for the added weight. The plan is to paint the interior and engine bay white once I decide I don't care anymore and for sure once I convert to roadrace. I always got props on how clean my sound deadening removal was. Agreed though....I nice coat of paint would make the overall look much better. We'll see once the rollbar is in there......maybe I'll change my mind as I've always wanted the car to be presentable.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Id really like to see what the hatch looks like.