T25 hit the crapper... now, EVO 3 16G or 50 trim???

[BoostFrenzy]

With a piggyback controller, you will be limited to an injector size of around 660cc (unless you get your ECU "chipped").

I forgot about that. If you do some research on "chips" that will fit into your socket then that is also another route. An AFC is advised with this as well, but it will make it easier to tune because you will have a base tune with it. It would be kind of like getting DSMLink without the tunning capabilities. You get a strong base injector settings, idle RPM, etc. So you should look into that a little too.

 

[run-4-cover]

Alright, since you lack the common sense to realize what I am saying here I will lay it our for you in such a way that a 4th grader should be able to understand.

Whenever changing boost from the stock settings, it is a good idea to monitor for
detonation since the vehicle is tuned from the factory to run at a specific level of boost.
Though detonation may not occur, there is the chance that it will. Detonation is one of the leading causes of engine failure. Therefore, why not take every chance to restrict this from occurring? Then again, logic has it's way of staying away from your mind for a reasone I have not been able to place.

Now, on to another extremely important part of information that you failed to pick up since the 90s when you say you started trolling this site: 10 psi on a t-25 is not equal to 10 psi on a 50 trim or a 14b. The main factor is airflow. (lb/m) Regardless, I think many on this site would agree that whenever changing boost you should always log for detonation.

Please, research this and post back as soon as possible since many readers of this post can't get enough of your posts in this thread. It seems as though your purpose is to stir up the posters and get them angry. You could at least be mature and constructive in your criticizm or differences in opinion. You will find that you get a much more positive response that way.

son...you do a good job of talking in circles...what are you? some self-proclaimed guru...because your a dumba$$...period! First, I never said 10psi is equal on a T25 and 50trim...go read and comprehend; you'll see I was talking theoreticaly when I said if a T25 makes 220whp at whatever boost pressure, if you ran a 50trim at whatever LOWER pressure to achieve that same 220whp, there would be no issues other than slower spool. 220whp is 220whp. period!

You need to go and stick your head back in the super street magazine you've been learning from, because you are in no position to give anyone advice. Please find me 5 people that have had detonation problems with a 14b at 16psi or less....hell, find me 1! If the car was run on at least 91 octane and the base timing was set, that forgiving dsm ecu will let you run a long and boost happy life....on a 2g or 1g! again, if you go back and READ and COMPREHEND what I said, for the sake of idiots, I said to connect the wastegate to the boost solenoid....how much psi does a turbo make on a 2g when connected to the boost solenoid? do you know anyone who had trouble with detonation at said boost level? quit frontin like you actually know what you're talking about, because you don't....alot of post counts don't immune you from being a dumba$$, just means you don't have a life, and have nothing better to do with your worthless time than tell people a 14b on a 2nd gen will lead to detonation

your trying real hard to justify your stupid statement by making blanket statements....just give up son, all your talk about "there is a chance of detonation....", is 100% USDA bull$hyt! like I said, find some evidence to support your stupid theory or shut up! I speak from experience, you obviously don't.

whenever changing boost, you should monitor for detonation....thats common sense! but it's also common sense to know that running a 14b at whatever boost pressure a T25 was running at won't pose a knock problem...especially since most 1g's run 14b's at 16psi or more....I guess your going to tell me the raised compression of the 2g will cause it to knock.....trust me, I know there are idiots out there who could blow a 4g63 up with a stock t25, but I like to give people the benefit of doubt (excluding you, ### your about 7 cans short of a 6-pack)

...Lastly, I'm nothing like a troll, I have a life....don't need to post anything (except in a rare case like yours)...I use these sites stricktly for info, not to converse with retards like yourself....your so far off the mark, its not even funny. When you get some real world experience under your belt, come holla at me.....on second thought......don't! as far as positive response, I'm not the one who's mis-informed jr....you are....I don't need a forum to mod my car, been there done that....

...I know you probably weren't even around for this(maybe you were), but I was one of the "outside the box thinkers" who were running an 18g when the majority of the DSM community was saying they were garbage and telling everyone to avoid 18g's like the plague....lets just say, I love to go against the grain, and don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong if someone can argue a point a present proof....you word means nothing to me...NADA!!! feel me?

 

[S_Ranger]

^
Good words...

 

[run-4-cover]

That's nice to know... I don't think I could ever save up enough money to get a badass Garrett turbo AND the manifold AND the O2 housing.

sure you can, you don't need super deep pockets to build a fast car....your first mod should be some tools and a shop manual....alot of that stuff you can do yourself...do you realize how much more $$$ you have to throw at toys when your not paying ~$70+ per hour labor rates?

as for that turbo setup you think you can't afford...you can....go on ebay an buy a tubular manifold for a DSM with a T3 flange, and have a good welder reinforce it where he/she deems necessary (unless you want to become proficient at removing it)...then buy a real garrett turbo, I reccomend a 50 or 57 trim to4e, t3/t4 with a .63 a/r turbine and stage IV wheel....there is no O2 housing....just a downpipe....buy the flange to fit your hotside on the turbo (turbine outlet flange), it's usually a four bolt or 5-bolt ford style....then an external 38mm wasteagte...I reccomend a real Tial....the knockoffs work once you put a real tial spring in it....it's questionable how long it'll last though

with that $1500 budget, you can have that setup on your car and running if you shop wisely ...obviously, I'm still thinking with your 400whp goal in mind....given, I'm speaking more from sr20det experience here than 4g63....but they're both 2.0L engines, so I would assume the turbos would act similarly on both engines. matter of fact, I'm not sure a 50trim will make 450whp...you may want to look at 57 and 60 trims for that....I reccomend a used SC61 or sc63

so...you may end up with some used parts, but you can build your dream car on a budget...I've done it more than once now...

just so you know: which is off topic...I had a bet with some people on the 240sx forums about building an ebay sr20'd 240 to break 300rwhp on pump gas.....that $150 dollar chinese knockoff ebay t3/t4 57 trim (so they say, it's not hardly a 57trim to4e) made 330rwhp @ 18psi on 93 octane pumpgas on my sr...on 2 diffferent dynos......too bad the turbo only lasted about 6 months

I'm not trying to hype my 240, just illustraiting that you can build a powerful car if you shop wisely, learn to do at least 60% of your own work, and research....the ironic part is; sometimes you have to go out on a limb when thinking outside the box...sometime the limb breaks and you come crashing on your head....sometimes you prove your point, and others want to climb your tree....or some corny analogy like that

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Just illustraiting that you can build a powerful car if you shop wisely, learn to do at least 60% of your own work, and research....the ironic part is; sometimes you have to go out on a limb when thinking outside the box...sometime the limb breaks and you come crashing on your head....sometimes you prove your point

Through all of the BS and fighting in this thread, that is the main point. Educate yourself on the pro's and con's of going with either a t25, a 14b, or a 50 trim and make your own decision.

 

[ILLiCliPSE]

oh jeez not another one of these threads

50 trim ftw. easy power.

 

[Loco4Life]

son...you do a good job of talking in circles...what are you? some self-proclaimed guru...because your a dumba$$...period! First, I never said 10psi is equal on a T25 and 50trim...go read and comprehend; you'll see I was talking theoreticaly when I said if a T25 makes 220whp at whatever boost pressure, if you ran a 50trim at whatever LOWER pressure to achieve that same 220whp, there would be no issues other than slower spool. 220whp is 220whp. period!

You need to go and stick your head back in the super street magazine you've been learning from, because you are in no position to give anyone advice. Please find me 5 people that have had detonation problems with a 14b at 16psi or less....hell, find me 1! If the car was run on at least 91 octane and the base timing was set, that forgiving dsm ecu will let you run a long and boost happy life....on a 2g or 1g! again, if you go back and READ and COMPREHEND what I said, for the sake of idiots, I said to connect the wastegate to the boost solenoid....how much psi does a turbo make on a 2g when connected to the boost solenoid? do you know anyone who had trouble with detonation at said boost level? quit frontin like you actually know what you're talking about, because you don't....alot of post counts don't immune you from being a dumba$$, just means you don't have a life, and have nothing better to do with your worthless time than tell people a 14b on a 2nd gen will lead to detonation

your trying real hard to justify your stupid statement by making blanket statements....just give up son, all your talk about "there is a chance of detonation....", is 100% USDA bull$hyt! like I said, find some evidence to support your stupid theory or shut up! I speak from experience, you obviously don't.

whenever changing boost, you should monitor for detonation....thats common sense! but it's also common sense to know that running a 14b at whatever boost pressure a T25 was running at won't pose a knock problem...especially since most 1g's run 14b's at 16psi or more....I guess your going to tell me the raised compression of the 2g will cause it to knock.....trust me, I know there are idiots out there who could blow a 4g63 up with a stock t25, but I like to give people the benefit of doubt (excluding you, ### your about 7 cans short of a 6-pack)

...Lastly, I'm nothing like a troll, I have a life....don't need to post anything (except in a rare case like yours)...I use these sites stricktly for info, not to converse with retards like yourself....your so far off the mark, its not even funny. When you get some real world experience under your belt, come holla at me.....on second thought......don't! as far as positive response, I'm not the one who's mis-informed jr....you are....I don't need a forum to mod my car, been there done that....

...I know you probably weren't even around for this(maybe you were), but I was one of the "outside the box thinkers" who were running an 18g when the majority of the DSM community was saying they were garbage and telling everyone to avoid 18g's like the plague....lets just say, I love to go against the grain, and don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong if someone can argue a point a present proof....you word means nothing to me...NADA!!! feel me?

While I might agree with the fact that running a 50-trim is plenty possible with the stated setup (although I wouldn't), you don't need to come off like that. If you disagree with diablo or whoever else, you're entitled and welcomed to state your case to the contrary, but throwing insults and crap only serves to reduce people's respect and interest for what you have to say and says little of your character. You may be mechanically inclined, but you should show a little bit more respect for other members, whether or not their ideas are in line with yours.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

Despite all of this. To the OP, I don't see how you got a proven status when you can't even decide on a simple choice between stock, slightly stock, or modified? No offense to you bro, but its a little fishy to me. That is the whole point of being a DSMer, figuring it all out.

Now, here are the options, you take it or leave it...

1. Buy stock for stock, swap a T-25 for a T-25. Its cheap, easy, and inexpensive. Maybe even a T-28, it bolts right in as well, and it gives you more bang and it looks stock. The faster you get the turbo, the faster you can drive your car.

2. A 14B is a MHI Turbo, that is why you have to "buy" a 2G install kit, due to the fact that Garrett had their T-25 on 2G's and the feed/return lines and some pipes were different. And of course, you can buy or make those parts cheaper for yourself by researching the parts needed. Porting would be something else to consider as well, since its all apart.

3. A PTE 50 Trim, is going to cost you quite a bit first off, and yeah, internally gated on that particular setup loves boost creep. A couple of my friends, had the required supporting mods, still had boost creep. Then, they eventually welded the flapper door shut, and changed their setup to external. No creeeeep issues now til this day what so ever. And not to mention the oil feed/return lines have to be drilled and tapped into the head, and the IC piping is different, along with other misc parts/mods need to be in place either before/during you get this turbo.

And since yours is BONE STOCK, I would keep it that way before I modded it. An aftermarket BOV does nothing extra at stock leves but relieves pressure, just like the stocker.

I would personally do the 14B, but I am mechanically inclined to do that kind of job, as is your friend that is going to be doing your timing job. Like I said, take everything with a grain of salt, even what I said, and find out the truth for yourself. Its good you asked for advice, but you always get mixed views and "internet truths" on threads like this. It's almost like bench racing, but worse. Personally, having been there and done that with other cars as well, I would do the slightly modified path. It saves you more down the road with other upgrades.... Maintenance is also the key, like you said, maintenance before modification.

 

[run-4-cover]

While I might agree with the fact that running a 50-trim is plenty possible with the stated setup (although I wouldn't), you don't need to come off like that. If you disagree with diablo or whoever else, you're entitled and welcomed to state your case to the contrary, but throwing insults and crap only serves to reduce people's respect and interest for what you have to say and says little of your character. You may be mechanically inclined, but you should show a little bit more respect for other members, whether or not their ideas are in line with yours.

I don't come off like anything...I have a problem with "internet gurus" who post stupid shyt! if you read back, I didn't insult his lack of intelligence until he decided he would talk down to me....the arguing is done....if the devil has anything to say to me, he can start a new thread, I'm past that now....I aim to help the thread starter build his car on a budget if he so desires....matter of fact I'm doing a budget 2g build myself (a little something for the girlfriend since she drives more than I will)....a 300whp budget build is underway.

thread starter....as for your exhaust, since I don't know the new rules as far as posting links to non-supporters of the site, but I just bought/installed a 3.5" (yes, three and a half inch piping ) stainless catback with a reducer to bolt to the stock cat for $258 shipped...fit perfect...nice quality too...sounds throaty. Pm if you want the link. (anyone)

 

[Loco4Life]

You don't gotta insult anyone in the first place. The point of this site is to help each other out, give beneficial information, and debate (if necessary) with a little maturity. We can do without "z0mG yur a dumba$$, i cant believe how stupud y00 are!!"

As for exhaust, I don't think 3.5" is really necessary. A 3" system is plenty large for a 400 hp setup. It also brings up the argument of backpressure. $258 is a killer price though.

 

[diablos991]

I agree with you, but genius above was telling him to not get a 14b because he would run into tuning issues!?!?! the bottom line is; if he has money to get the 50trim now, get it....if not, put another t25 on there and follow the "normal" upgrade path then.

Just to clear this one up; I though I was the one to talk downy to you first. Either way, I am willing to accept that you take a lot of risks with your vehicles.

I, on the other hand, like to prevent risks as much as possible to extend the life of my investment. I also believe in doing things right the first time.

In order for me to make the judgement to think outside of the box and take unnecessary risks, I must be facing some sort of payoff that will make it worthwhile.

Also, you might want to get the crap our from around period button on your keyboard, I think it is sticking.

 

[99gst_racer]

Drop the bi***-fest, guys. Keep this tech related from this point on, or this will be closed and you will be suspended.

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

I think that maybe my original goal of 450HP along with not wanting to buy parts that I will have to, yet again, upgrade was a bit unrealistic. Not that it can't be done, but I think I will tame my expectations down a bit... upgrade my turbo slightly now and just baby it. I'll probably also look into an AFC of somesort right now too. That way I can monitor and adjust my air and fuel, getting peak performance out of what i DO have, and not have to worry about "am i going to blow this thing up?" I think I might just go with the B16G for now, port and polish my exhaust manifold and O2 housing, along with an AFC NEO (I haven't done any AFC research yet, so that might change).

I know this sounds contradicting to another one of my posts, but I truly believe that I can upgrade the turbo to something moderately big IF i have the tools to tune and control how it works.

So... any recommendations on an AFC?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Derek,
I would take baby steps, especially since you're relatively lightly modded. If you are looking to step into a b16g/e316G turbo, using an SAFC with slightly larger injectors (DO NOT run higher than 650cc injectors with an SAFC), then by all means do so. The 16G family has been proven to make great street power while maintaining streetability.

In terms of growth, an SAFC/1/2/neo can take you pretty far in terms of power and speed. I went 12.7@109 on an older blue screen SAFC/660/50trim with a very baseline tune. No doubt you will be able to accomplish good power goals using this method, but you will have to learn what the SAFC does to tune (it's actually air compensation, not fuel), understand the limitations of your setup, and most importantly, your power potential.

goodluck

P.s., I just did a quick tune on an GST with an SAFC neo (which costs $400+ ) and it is not that impressive, considering the pricing point. Using an older SAFC1 or SAFC2 will justify most tuning potential and is much cheaper than going with a NEO. IMO, it's just a new SAFC2 with a color screen that Apex'i can charge a lot more for.

 

[run-4-cover]

last post on this subject:....

poster, here's MY logical upgrade path for you to follow, to do your budget build...this is my suggestion...

1. 255 fuel pump
2. at least 650cc injectors
3. get your ecu chipped for at least 650cc injectors
4. install tuned chip when you get your injectors
5. cat back 3" or larger
6. down pipe cat/test pipe
7. now you have the bare mods to run a larger turbo at sane boost levels...
8. 50trim or whatever turbo you want at the time
9. fmic
10. add in an afc so you can fine tune if necessary
11. add fpr, cams, smim, or whatever other trinkets you need at this point
12. save for better engine management if you haven't met your goal yet, that way you can play wit fuel and timing maps....you'll also have learned your car while doing the previous mods.

I left out all the little stuff like ic piping and intake, because it really doesn't matter when you add them (as long as it's before step 8). I've found in modding, if you get the more expensive stuff upfront, the time to reach your goal is reduced vs. nickel and diming yourself to death with parts that don't really do anything for performance...I would rather have the heavy hitters on the car, than spend $200 on a bov, and $300+ on a fmic when I'm still on a t25

I prefer base fuel pressure and larger injectors vs. jacking up fuel pressure for more fuel. Even though I haven't chipped my DSM yet, I've had nothing but good results with tuned ecu's (reputable tuner) on my other cars. ok....that's my $0.02, no need to

 

[Black_Bullet]

last post on this subject:....

poster, here's MY logical upgrade path for you to follow, to do your budget build...this is my suggestion...

1. 255 fuel pump
2. at least 650cc injectors
3. get your ecu chipped for at least 650cc injectors
4. install tuned chip when you get your injectors
5. cat back 3" or larger
6. down pipe cat/test pipe
7. now you have the bare mods to run a larger turbo at sane boost levels...
8. 50trim or whatever turbo you want at the time
9. fmic
10. add in an afc so you can fine tune if necessary
11. add fpr, cams, smim, or whatever other trinkets you need at this point
12. save for better engine management if you haven't met your goal yet, that way you can play wit fuel and timing maps....you'll also have learned your car while doing the previous mods.

I 100% agree with this... Really dont even waist your time trying to tune with a safc.
You will get so much more tunability with a chipped ecu and if you already have a eprom it will be much cheaper just getting a stage 3 chip. I run one btw.
Only thing I wouldve added to his list would be a logger and a wide band minus the safc.

I prefer base fuel pressure and larger injectors vs. jacking up fuel pressure for more fuel. Even though I haven't chipped my DSM yet, I've had nothing but good results with tuned ecu's (reputable tuner) on my other cars. ok....that's my $0.02, no need to

I dont really agree with this part, I think determining what kind of fuel pressure you want to run is all opinionative. Some pros and cons of running higher fuel pressure,

pros-
Get more flow out of your injectors ( most injectors are overrated in flow capabilities.)
I run the n/t 2.0 fpr which has a base fuel pressure of 47.6... Therefore running that with say 450s will give you approx 505 cc of fuel flow so youd tell the ecu ( thru the chip) to compensate for 505cc injectors... You can get a n/t fpr for about 20 bucks in the junkyard.
Also increased fuel pressure lower your chances/ or eliminated fuel pressure over run depending how high you set it therefore no need to spend 200 on a afpr if you went the n/t fpr route.

cons-
(Dont quote me on this but i think ) it works your fuel pump a little harder with higher f. pressures depending on how high you run it

You have to be more specific with your tune in the compensation factor between fuel pump/injectors, deadtime, etc. BUT if you get a keydiver chip simply tell jeff exactly what fuel psi you run an what injectors and he'd take care of everything.

You can run into fuel pressure relief if you run too high of fuel pressure with a lot of boost due to raising 1:1 with boost and already having a high base fp to begin with youll run fuel relief point faster.

I cant think of any more pros and cons,

but that is just an opinion from my point of view...

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

Where to get a Stage 3 chip?? And yes, I've actually taken the ECU out and DO, in fact, have an EPROM ECU (i've been thinking about DSMlink for a LONG time). I know that's it's assumed that i would because it's a 95, but that doesn't mean that it does (but in this case... it does).

 

[BoostFrenzy]

Well since you know you have a Eprom, DSMLink isn't totally out of the question. (That right there saves you about 200-300 dollars). But you would need to justify it with what you have and what else you need. Another deciding factor would be if you have a Laptop or not. Because if you don't then with what your budget was, it is out of the question.

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

Nope... I don't have a laptop. I think I'll wait on DSMlink until later. Although, between the PDA, Pocketlogger, and an AFC, I'm already 1/2 way there in dollars spent. I just can't think about that and instead realize that I can spend that $300 on something else... like a lap dance.

 

[eclipseGSTud]

Derek, you can get a "Stage 3" chip from www.dsmchips.com The price is $150+shipping. E-mail them before you order to make sure you understand all the features and so they can help you customize your chip. Is your Eprom ECU socketed? What is your current budget for mods? Don't forget that you need a 2g install kit if you get a 16g.

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

Well, I was trying to stay under 1500 for right now... but that was including the cost of changing the timing belt and waterpump. After adding up all the costs, so far I'm at like $2k. I'm having it towed down to English Racing which is about 3 hours away from me. That's gonna cost me $160. The shop sells the MHI EVO III 16g for $530 and charges $70 to have it ported and polished. Then another $200 for the Mitsu turbo install kit and about another $360 in labor. He charges $530 for the timing belt and water pump intall (parts and labor). I know everyone on here is gonna say order the turbo and do the install myself, but I'd really rather leave it to Lucas at English Racing to install it and adjust my boost while checking my fuel pump to make sure I'm not gonna hit fuel cut. I could save myself about $500 dollars if I just did it myself, but I figure while I got it down there I'll have him do ALL the work.

After talking to Lucas on Friday, he said not to worry about an AFC at this time and that, assuming my fuel pump is still holding up, that a FMIC would be a better investment. After that is when I'll get a 255lpr fuel pump, an FPR, and upgrade the injectors.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Well, I was trying to stay under 1500 for right now... but that was including the cost of changing the timing belt and waterpump. After adding up all the costs, so far I'm at like $2k. I'm having it towed down to English Racing which is about 3 hours away from me. That's gonna cost me $160. The shop sells the MHI EVO III 16g for $530 and charges $70 to have it ported and polished. Then another $200 for the Mitsu turbo install kit and about another $360 in labor. He charges $530 for the timing belt and water pump intall (parts and labor). I know everyone on here is gonna say order the turbo and do the install myself, but I'd really rather leave it to Lucas at English Racing to install it and adjust my boost while checking my fuel pump to make sure I'm not gonna hit fuel cut. I could save myself about $500 dollars if I just did it myself, but I figure while I got it down there I'll have him do ALL the work.

After talking to Lucas on Friday, he said not to worry about an AFC at this time and that, assuming my fuel pump is still holding up, that a FMIC would be a better investment. After that is when I'll get a 255lpr fuel pump, an FPR, and upgrade the injectors.

I think that's fine and dandy that you want to have someone do the work (hey, not everyone likes to make a mess of a DSM ); but I would seriously reconsider the price tag that comes a long with his labor. $530 for a timing belt install is INSANE. Unless he is replacing ALL of your parts with OEM parts (Timing belt, idler pulley, tensioner pulley, tensioner arm, and waterpump) then he is ripping you off. Besides, when you're already taking the timing belt off, the water pump is literally 5 bolts and a gasket to swap it out.

Just for reference:
http://dogboxracing.com/Maintenance.htm

 

[thekellbeast]

I was in your shoes a long time ago, and the only real question is if you have any self control. Here's why I ask. I was trying to drive from VA to Maine, and the t-25 went out on my car. I had to leave the car at a shop in Baltimore, MD, and go back to VA to get underway with my ship. I had an 18g sitting around, that had been machined to accept a T3 compressor housing, with a 90 elbow welded on. Long story short, I had the shop in MD install the turbo, which was almost an exact bolt-on, and I got raped on labor. 1500 later, the car was running at the stock boost level with an 18g bolted up. There was nothing I could do about it, because the car was stranded in Maryland, and by that time, I was back home in Maine.

Now. I've been working on the car as it goes. I've been living with the wastegate drawing a direct boost source to keep it at 10~psi for the past year or more. It has been complete hell, knowing that this turbo would haul ass at ~20psi, but I just can't do it. I don't have the fuel and tuning to support it. So, I've been living with the temptation. That's why I ask if you have the self control. If you can drive around a 50 trim at 10 psi, knowing you have 25psi on tap, good for you. Good luck though.

If you're wondering why it took so long for me to get my supporting mods, that's a completely different story and a life lesson of its own.

And for the kids, a boost controller is NOT a supporting mod for a 50 trim unless you have the fuel and tuning to keep from running lean. The stock BCS is your friend.

Edit: If you look at my mods, you'll see that I've slowly built up the car around the turbo. I'm running DSMLink now, and I just put in a rewired 255hp. Soon it will have injectors and an AFPR, and then it will be fun time.

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

Thanks for the heads up. I do know that more things were included other then just changing the timing belt and replacing the waterpump, although I can't remember exactly what all was intailed in the job. I do know that he does us 100% OEM Mitsu parts. Again, thanks for the fair warning and I'll make sure that I know for sure every single thing that's he's doing. I would be very surprised if he is trying to rape me on his services as he is VERY, VERY reputable here in the Northwest and was personally referred to me by my friend Turbowop, who actually has his GVR4 featured in this months issue of Modified Mag (Shameless Plug).

I think that's fine and dandy that you want to have someone do the work (hey, not everyone likes to make a mess of a DSM ); but I would seriously reconsider the price tag that comes a long with his labor. $530 for a timing belt install is INSANE. Unless he is replacing ALL of your parts with OEM parts (Timing belt, idler pulley, tensioner pulley, tensioner arm, and waterpump) then he is ripping you off. Besides, when you're already taking the timing belt off, the water pump is literally 5 bolts and a gasket to swap it out.

Just for reference:
http://dogboxracing.com/Maintenance.htm

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

Well, I was trying to stay under 1500 for right now... but that was including the cost of changing the timing belt and waterpump. After adding up all the costs, so far I'm at like $2k. I'm having it towed down to English Racing which is about 3 hours away from me. That's gonna cost me $160. The shop sells the MHI EVO III 16g for $530 and charges $70 to have it ported and polished. Then another $200 for the Mitsu turbo install kit and about another $360 in labor. He charges $530 for the timing belt and water pump intall (parts and labor). I know everyone on here is gonna say order the turbo and do the install myself, but I'd really rather leave it to Lucas at English Racing to install it and adjust my boost while checking my fuel pump to make sure I'm not gonna hit fuel cut. I could save myself about $500 dollars if I just did it myself, but I figure while I got it down there I'll have him do ALL the work.

After talking to Lucas on Friday, he said not to worry about an AFC at this time and that, assuming my fuel pump is still holding up, that a FMIC would be a better investment. After that is when I'll get a 255lpr fuel pump, an FPR, and upgrade the injectors.

Dude, do you even know what fuel cut is? You said he is going to check your fuel pump to make sure you don't hit fuel cut, but that isn't where it starts or even begins. I had to learn the hard way what fuel cut was exactly, and now I know, I have seen it, and at times, I didn't even notice it on some other cars until I finally understood what it was and what it was caused by. Your ECU/PCM/ECM whatever you want to call it, that is what determines fuel cut.... NOT YOUR FUEL SYSTEM!!! Your fuel system in this case is only a pawn. Now, this is where the ECU automatically decides when the boost/air pressure exceeds a certain level and the ECU decides to retard the timing and/or stop the flow of fuel. As the boost rises, the ECU must increase the amount of fuel being delivered to the engine in order to be maintained safely and operate efficiently. Now, of course, with an upgraded system, you won't turn out extremely extremely lean mixture, but at the same time, if it goes untuned properly, then you have major problems that will only get worse. Detonation is not your friend! Nor is a car without all the supporting mods either. These threads also describe other problems associated with it.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4348

Not to make you look like a noob, but I had to say it. Just upgrade it piece by piece, unless you have the cash for it, and you can keep up with it. Do it right the first time...