To 50 trim or not...

[RedRex02]

As of now I have my FP Big T28 with all supporting mods. Turbo has done great for me and is still running strong. Part of me says to jump into a 50 trim and part of me says to jump into a nice MHI E316g. I am leaning more towards the 50 due to the fact that there is much more potential. Here is my question...
As of now I am running the Dejon Super Sidemount which is rated at 400hp. I am running FIC 550cc's and am using the afc to tune. Coupe months ago I had the car tuned for 18 psi and made damn near close to 300whp and 300 tq. The afc settings were at about -34% up top, so fuel is there and extra if needed.

Would I be ok to run the 50 trim with my current mods, or would I be better off with the E316G. Knowing I am at -34% up top, I am thinking I will have neough fuel for a 50 trim. Do you guys think my intercooler will support a 50 trim, granted Dejon claims 400hp with it.

Let me know what you guys think.
BTW, my goal is about 350whp, 350TQ. Can it be had with my car with the E316G or should I do the 50 trim?
Jon

 

[DGajre777]

You'll max out the 550cc injectors with either the EVO III or a 50 trim. The EVO III 16G will give you about 50HP more compared to the T28. If you plan to run around 22psi on a 50 trim the 190 pump will be enough to supply fuel. If you want to keep your sidemount, I'd go with the Evo III. If you plan on getting a FMIC, get the 50 trim. Either turbo will meet your goals.

 

[RedRex02]

You'll max out the 550cc injectors with either the EVO III or a 50 trim. The EVO III 16G will give you about 50HP more compared to the T28. If you plan to run around 22psi on a 50 trim the 190 pump will be enough to supply fuel. If you want to keep your sidemount, I'd go with the Evo III. If you plan on getting a FMIC, get the 50 trim. Either turbo will meet your goals.

So you still think even with my afc settings(-34), I still may need bigger injectors with either turbo? I am somewhat sure that my settings are similar to those running 680's.

Does it matter which 16g, ie E3, BIG etc?

 

[DGajre777]

So you still think even with my afc settings(-34), I still may need bigger injectors with either turbo? I am somewhat sure that my settings are similar to those running 680's.

Does it matter which 16g, ie E3, BIG etc?

Many people have maxed out 550ccs on the EVO III 16G. You could sell your injectors for $150 and then the 650s won't be that expensive.

Evo III 16G - The EVO3 Big 16G features a slightly larger compressor wheel than the previous Big 16G. It also uses an improved turbine housing design, which offers better boost control, direct fitment with the EVO3 O2 housing, and weighs in 2.75 lbs lighter than the old style 7cm housings.

Big 16G - Original equipment for the Lancer EVO III in Japan, the TD05H Big 16G is rated at 375hp, with a flow rating of 550cfm. The Big 16G comes internally gated, and is equipped with a 7cm2 turbine housing. The optional turbine housing porting and turbine wheel clipping will allow the Big 16G to flow more air, and will increase top end power output. The 34mm wastegate upgrade allows the turbo to control boost much more effectively, and eliminates problems such as boost creep.

Regular 16G - The TD05H 16G is rated at 350hp, with a flow rate of 505cfm. The 16G comes internally gated, and is equipped with a 7cm2 turbine housing. The optional turbine housing porting and turbine wheel clipping will allow the 16G to flow more air, and will increase top end power output. The 34mm wastegate upgrade allows the turbo to control boost much more effectively, and eliminates problems such as boost creep.

Source: http://linux.forcedperformance.net/...en=CTGY&Store_Code=FP&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo

 

[RedRex02]

So can I rule out the Dejon Super side mount as a possible downside to running a E3 or 50? Dejon claims 400hp, and I really doubt I will see 400 on either turbo with my setup.

The fuel is debatable, imo, but what do I knwo. I have spoken with a few tuner shops and both have said that the 50 trim will be ok with my fuel mods, due to the fact of my afc settings now. One shop said that I may be a TAD bit short on fuel, but nothing bad or dangerous.

So are we sure that with a E3, I will be bale to make the extra 40-50whp? I know every car is different but I reached 300 with the FP Big T28 at 18 psi.

Thanks for all the help!!!
Jon

 

[DGajre777]

So can I rule out the Dejon Super side mount as a possible downside to running a E3 or 50? Dejon claims 400hp, and I really doubt I will see 400 on either turbo with my setup.

Worse case senario, it'll heatsoak and you'll knock. If you do and you know you have everything other than a FMIC, it is time to upgrade.

The fuel is debatable, imo, but what do I knwo. I have spoken with a few tuner shops and both have said that the 50 trim will be ok with my fuel mods, due to the fact of my afc settings now. One shop said that I may be a TAD bit short on fuel, but nothing bad or dangerous.

If you don't plan on maxing out the EVO III 16G, the 550ccs will be fine. At 350WHP, you probably won't max it out so your current 550cc injectors might work for you.

So are we sure that with a E3, I will be bale to make the extra 40-50whp? I know every car is different but I reached 300 with the FP Big T28 at 18 psi.

This tread might help you answer you question. I see that you posted in it a few times.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222189

Thanks for all the help!!!
Jon

Glad to be of help! A rep point would be nice, I haven't got one of those in a while...

 

[Pennywise]

if you want 350 i would stick with a E316g, if you wanted more power go with the 50 trim.

 

[CanadianTSi]

350whp is not going to be easy on the evo 3 16g.

Go with the 50 trim that way you won't have to turn around and upgrade again in 6 months...

Also -34 up top Indicates you have a boost leak...either that or you really have 650's

 

[RedRex02]

350whp is not going to be easy on the evo 3 16g.

Go with the 50 trim that way you won't have to turn around and upgrade again in 6 months...

Also -34 up top Indicates you have a boost leak...either that or you really have 650's

I have done a boost leak several times, and nothing, or atleast nothing big. For it to be that high of correction, I am assuming it would be a BIG boost leak, plus with something like that, I would assume I would not have made what I did...?

I wonder if FIC sent me 650's instead...any way of telling?

 

[nikkeebabee]

350hp will be trouble with an evo 16g?

Are you sick?

There are plenty of dsm geting 350hp or more with 16gs.

The evo is supposedly the largest.

The "Almighty 50 Trim" is not the answer to all. Remember you want something that with have decent spool up.

Dont get me wrong a 50 trim can make a car go fast but.....

I dont think its the answer to everyone tring to get "low" hp numbers.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Please post up some Dyno sheets of all these 350+WHP 16g DSM's,Since they seem to be so frequent...

 

[No_Skillz]

Why not look at a 20g?

 

[Module Unknown]

I'm going to have to agree with CanadianTSi. Why? Because I have an evo3 16g.

Sure there are plenty of people out there at or around 350whp, but using what type of fuel and running how must boost to make those numbers?

If RedRex wants to make those numbers on pump gas and run a reasonable amount of boost on a daily driver I say 350 is going to be a struggle to reach on the evo3.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Exactly, I've ran an Evo 3 16g...great little turbo, took me to 110mph traps on low boost and pump gas with a 10 min logger tune...

But if your gonna upgrade you might as well make it a noticeable difference.

 

[daren_p]

CanadianTSi is correct, he said 350 whp won't be that easy, yes it can be done but with a good number of suporting mods. Now if he had said 350 crank hp that would be a different story . As for the intercooler to get the most out of either of these turbos you will want a fmic. I ran my evoIII on a HRC SMIC @ 18 psi and while it could "handle" it, I still noticed a big difference switching to a fmic. With nothing else changed gained a couple lb/min in airflow, got rid of the random knock that I would see in 3rd & 4th (not enough cooling capacity), allowed me to add timing in the upper rpms, not to mention the hp gain from the cooler air that it produced.

 

[Module Unknown]

...random knock that I would see in 3rd & 4th (not enough cooling capacity...

damnit, this is what I'm fighting right now, bit with an hrc fmic. Never used to do it though... :-\

Sorry to get off topic. Go bigger the first time!

 

[nikkeebabee]

Please post up some Dyno sheets of all these 350+WHP 16g DSM's,Since they seem to be so frequent...

Slowboy Racing...

Actually made 400 on the evo 16g

It seems like it's "impossible" to do anything without the link or a 50 trim these days.

All I hear is dsm link and 50 Trim. Not that theres anything wrong with them. But soon its gonna be your car wont run with out an ems and 35r.

You might want to look at building the motor to handle what you have now and then when you run a 50 trim the car can handle it more then a few runs.

 

[CanadianTSi]

I know there have been a few people to break 400hp, but that's with tons of Boost and race gas. My point is there aren't very many "average joe's" making 350whp with a 16g.

Also for the building the motor comment, my bone stock motor handles 24psi from my 50 trim everyday just fine.

 

[brute]

As far as I remember, when Slowboy did that test they were running 30+ psi on a 2.4L stroker fully built race motor. Race gas? I'm not sure. It is NOT going to be easy on a daily driver, so I agree that you should just go with a 50 right away.

My Evo III 16G spools up to 17 psi by like 2800-3000 rpm. A ball bearing PTE 50 trim can reach 20 psi by 3100-3200 rpm. Once you have the E3, you'll have fun with it for a while, then you'll want more. Then you get a 50 trim. So why waste the $550 now, when for an extra $200-300 you can get a 50 trim?

I'd say, go with the 50.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Incorrect, even a properly tuned 2.0 BB50 trim will spool at 33-3400 the soonest. Besides, a BB50 trim will cost you nearly 1200 dollars now, nearly twice the amount of a 16G nowadays. The best thing you need to do is do more research, either turbo will get you to 350 whp, but the 50 trim (don't forget about the good ol' 20g) will do it much easier. A standard 50 trim will cost aroun 800 dollars internally gated, so its not that far out of reach of a 16G price.

 

[Verticaljump1]

I'd go with the E316G, you're gonna love the spool. I'd get the turbine wheel clipped because it adds a nice little umph onto the top end. And be sure to evenly port the compressor outlet to match your j-pipe if you've got an aftermarket one. Or get an FP 2544 even though there's probably 3 left in the entire world . Anyways, have you thought about water/methanol injection also? Good luck...

 

[madman]

Couldn't you get more out of the T-28 with more boost.

I wouldn't think it's limited to 18psi is it?

Just get 650's and turn up the boost.

If you are going to get another turbo I would suggest getting the 50trim. I don't think there is a big enough gain by getting a 16g to warrant the price for a new turbo.

Get a 50trim and allways have the ability to go larger later on.

Once you go from 300 to 350 you are going to want to get 400 maybe more....50trim will do it all easily.

If you seriously don't want to ever get more than 350whp then make you system a little more efficent (fmic, 650's....things you would need for the 16g or 50trim anyways) and stick with the T-28. Check the 1/4 mile times, there are some guys runngin in mid/low 12's with a T-28.

 

[ghettosmurf]

I'd go with the E316G, you're gonna love the spool. I'd get the turbine wheel clipped because it adds a nice little umph onto the top end. And be sure to evenly port the compressor outlet to match your j-pipe if you've got an aftermarket one. Or get an FP 2544 even though there's probably 3 left in the entire world . Anyways, have you thought about water/methanol injection also? Good luck...

im sure he already loves the spool on his t-28 ...


I would definetly go with the 50trim. To reach your goals on the 16g you will need to get larger injectors anyways. Going from a t28 to a evo 16g, is like going from a t25 to a 14b....

 

[RedRex02]

Couldn't you get more out of the T-28 with more boost.

I wouldn't think it's limited to 18psi is it?

Just get 650's and turn up the boost.

If you are going to get another turbo I would suggest getting the 50trim. I don't think there is a big enough gain by getting a 16g to warrant the price for a new turbo.

Get a 50trim and allways have the ability to go larger later on.

Once you go from 300 to 350 you are going to want to get 400 maybe more....50trim will do it all easily.

If you seriously don't want to ever get more than 350whp then make you system a little more efficent (fmic, 650's....things you would need for the 16g or 50trim anyways) and stick with the T-28. Check the 1/4 mile times, there are some guys runngin in mid/low 12's with a T-28.

Wouldn't a FMIC decrease spool up?

 

[RedRex02]

Also I am curious, the gains from a FMIC would be less knock, lower IAT's, and more pulls without heat soaking compared to my Dejon SUPER SMIC...????

I think for now if I stuck with the T28 with a FMIC, the injectors will do fine, considering I am at corrections that are good for 650's(maybe I have 650's, )