T-chargers EVO 3 GT

[Slowboy]

I started this thread to get the word out (good or bad) about this turbo not start round 2 of bash this person/vendor and what not. Dave Buschur laid out the info he felt was important to the subject. "1990greenGSX" not sure if you can tell, but you come off rather strongly and heated about this topic, if you have a personal beef with the guys at TC.com that's fine, but as far as how bad the internal bells and whistles are of this turbo you've looked at, please let us know what you've found, that's why this was started, but lets not get another thread locked prematurely .

Ask, and yee shall receive.

Evo III comparison page

If someone wants/ needs to get more technical than my 15 minute write up, please feel free to call me... 724-349-8417

Regards

Mike Huml

 

[ShapeGSX]

http://www.slowboyracing.com/evo3vsgt.htm

Well that should put that to rest. Jeez, that thrust bearing looks like it is painted pot-metal. Stick with the real thing, guys. Vendors too, please.

If they were really made in the same exact factory, why would they use completely different materials for the same parts?

 

[Stapl3]

What I am being told is these EVO3GT's are being built in the same assembly plant as they are building the MHI turbo's, not the same country. I would assumbe the quality is going to be as good because of this.

So you're selling us these controversial turbos based on assumptions?

The same building does not mean the same quality.

 

[Slowboy]

So you're selling us these controversial turbos based on assumptions?

The same building does not mean the same quality.

David can only give the information he receives, trash information goes in, trash information comes out.... its not David's fault.

Go to the source of the problem, the people feeding him the "trash".

Regards,

Mike Huml

 

[GPTourer]

What I am being told is these EVO3GT's are being built in the same assembly plant as they are building the MHI turbo's, not the same country. I would assumbe the quality is going to be as good because of this.

Please clarify this statment. Same plant but different country? Also, look at this article about MHI turbo production.


http://www.mhi.co.jp/enews/e_1023.html

And then this one:

http://www.mhi.co.jp/enews/e_031201.html

Is this the plant in question? The one in Shanghai?

 

[pboglio]

So Mitsubishi has released their design specs and probably the tooling as well to the Chinese? I'm shocked at how close they copied the MHI design, pretty remarkable. I'm still buying the EVO III 16g though.

 

[definitiveno]

the maturity level amongst vendors is sickening any more. You all need to grow the *&$# up and act like adults who own homes, businesses, and families. This is just rediculous.

I don't really see much of the commentary made by buscher being any thing but hurtful for slow boy. Will it improove your sales dave? No. Might it hurt slowboy's? Probably not but who's to say, leave it alone. On your way home be sure and stop by albertsons for some ackright, that goes for every one in this thread.




(this post not applicable to martin ofn the speefactor)




Without bias to who took the pictures, some commentary on them would be nice from dave, or other knowledgable guys with expertice in the field. I'm just afraid that an intelligent conversation of a product review might turn into chest pounding and poop slinging.

 

[GPTourer]

So Mitsubishi has released their design specs and probably the tooling as well to the Chinese? I'm shocked at how close they copied the MHI design, pretty remarkable. I'm still buying the EVO III 16g though.

That's how I would feel even if I were purchasing my turbo today. From what I see on MHI's site, production of the TD series is only done in Japan and the Netherlands.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

(this post not applicable to martin of the speefactor)

thanks man, i appreciatte the recognition We do our best.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

i wonder how many 16g's MHI makes a year? with as many that are out there just in the DSM market you have to wonder how many are actually made? Does anyone know what the 16g was originally designed for? I imagine it was for one of the MHI ugly flat nose trucks

if anyone knows this info i would love to know.

 

[Wanted:SWGSXAWD]

Thanks for the informative pictures Mike & Mark, things do look different on the inside as you've been stating all along . You've probably been asked alot already, but how long do you think it'll take for the results to come back from the metallurgist? and do you think it's something like pot metal or some other low quality metal? Thanks again for the informative write-up, nice pics

 

[red91gst]

i wonder how many 16g's MHI makes a year? with as many that are out there just in the DSM market you have to wonder how many are actually made? Does anyone know what the 16g was originally designed for? I imagine it was for one of the MHI ugly flat nose trucks

if anyone knows this info i would love to know.

The Small 16g was originally designed for the EVO I and II. In 1995, for the EVO III, ongoing improvements were rendering the existing turbo a liability as compressor efficiency was taking a dump at higher engine speeds, adversely impacting volumetric efficiency. So Mitsubishi swapped the old 60mm 16G compressor wheel for a more suitably sized 68mm 16G6 wheel and redesigned the exhaust again for less backpressure. A few years later when the EVO IV hit the market it had another redesigned 9cm2 twin scroll housing.

Selling 7,000 EVO IIIs from January 1995 to August 1996, the Evolution III was the best-selling EVO to date.

The flat nose trucks you are thinking of, the Mitsubishi Fuso, used a modified version of the Mitsu 20G.

Nate
SBR

On a side note, I believe the first 16g was found on the JDM Galant VR-4, which was made before the first Lancer Evolution. The EVO was based on the GVR4 drivetrain. Mitsubishi basically shoehorned the VR4 drivetrain into the smaller Lancer (mirage) body. This is back when Mitsubishi was all about WRC and needed a smaller car than the Galant to compete.

 

[definitiveno]

whoa..... this thread just kept getting better and better. i was totaly sucked into it. ive never seen venders going at each other like this. im not sure if slow boy started the fight, but they mos deff, finished it. what the hell is up w/all the scandles w/turbos nowadays? i know buschur didnt make the turbos. but isnt it kinda their job to make sure they are giving out a quality product? we ant talkin about a defective 20 buck rice cooker. this is a $600 turbo attatched to a whatever $$$ motor. i know where im going to get my evo3. thank you SBR

I don't think any one won or lost...... this topic is loosing because of posts like this. Nobody cares where your going to buy your turbo from or who you support (obvious ribbing to dave). If your like me it will likely have some thing to do with price when you purchase.



We should keep this thread specific about the quality of this new evo gt and nothing more. I don't see why it's so hard for some people to stay on a topic.


<-----guilty of straying OT before too

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

We should keep this thread specific about the quality of this new evo gt and nothing more. I don't see why it's so hard for some people to stay on a topic.

It's hard for people to stay on topic because some people/groups/cliques are worse than an old ladies sewing circle and other people think they are tough hiding behind a monitor/keyboard.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

SBR,

Do you have any pics of the turbine inlet on both turbo's next to each other? The metal on the bearing does look different but it also seems like it flows oil a tad bit better due to te larger openings. How would you compare this turbo or the metals used in the turbine housing and wheels as apposed to other turbo's besides MHI ones? Also, the turbine and wheels on the true evoIII 16g differ from the standard big and small 16g. Those turbo's seem to be doing fine on the market so how would you compare this evo GT turbo to them? We all know the true evoIII16g has had creep problems and some people say the housing with a 34mm flapper is too big for such a tiny turbo. I really would like to see a pic of both turbine inlets next to each other for a fair comparison. Thanks for any insight.

To the person that has a friend who had the turbo die on them within 200 miles, i know someone who has this turbo for 5k miles and still seems to be doing fine. Maybe the turbo your friend installed was not primed properly or something got in the oil feed/drain lines?

 

[Slowboy]

SBR,

Do you have any pics of the turbine inlet on both turbo's next to each other? The metal on the bearing does look different but it also seems like it flows oil a tad bit better due to te larger openings. How would you compare this turbo or the metals used in the turbine housing and wheels as apposed to other turbo's besides MHI ones? Also, the turbine and wheels on the true evoIII 16g differ from the standard big and small 16g. Those turbo's seem to be doing fine on the market so how would you compare this evo GT turbo to them? We all know the true evoIII16g has had creep problems and some people say the housing with a 34mm flapper is too big for such a tiny turbo. I really would like to see a pic of both turbine inlets next to each other for a fair comparison. Thanks for any insight.

To the person that has a friend who had the turbo die on them within 200 miles, i know someone who has this turbo for 5k miles and still seems to be doing fine. Maybe the turbo your friend installed was not primed properly or something got in the oil feed/drain lines?

Check back to the link above in about 10 minutes. We have a picture of 20g compressor wheel, EVO III GT wheel, and 50 trim next to one another.

I will also post pics of inlet, ported or non ported MHI?

Regards

Mike Huml

 

[GPTourer]

Selling 7,000 EVO IIIs from January 1995 to August 1996, the Evolution III was the best-selling EVO to date.

OT, but I am sure the Evo 8 is the best selling Evo to date. The US market adds at least another 5,000 units to the already 5-8K sold elsewhere, previous Evos of course, weren't sold here.

Thanks for the turbo comparison.

 

[MackZ24]

This post is mostly directed at Slowboy Racing, I was just wondering if you are still planning on doing dyno tests of this turbo in comparison to the original Evo 3 16G? Although we can all see the differences in manufacturing via your posted link, this would probably be the best way to get some concrete numbers on the turbo's performance.

 

[Slowboy]

This post is mostly directed at Slowboy Racing, I was just wondering if you are still planning on doing dyno tests of this turbo in comparison to the original Evo 3 16G? Although we can all see the differences in manufacturing via your posted link, this would probably be the best way to get some concrete numbers on the turbo's performance.

Not so sure I want this turbo on my motor Sorry.

MGH

 

[1990greenGSX]

This post is mostly directed at Slowboy Racing, I was just wondering if you are still planning on doing dyno tests of this turbo in comparison to the original Evo 3 16G? Although we can all see the differences in manufacturing via your posted link, this would probably be the best way to get some concrete numbers on the turbo's performance.

Ok, i know when there is speculation it gets shot down b/c its not hard fact. But in my opinion the GT 16g turbo would make similar power as the EVO, but would be a little slower in spool up time due to the inefficient tubine design air flow track to the wheel. But I feel its more of a durability issue for this turbo, how long will it last? I dont know if i can get mike to put that turbo on a $10k motor to test it the same as the MHI EVO 3 to see if it can make 400whp or not!

Mark
SBR

 

[WhiteCloud]

First of all, I'd like to say that David Buschur's bashing of SBR is unnecessary and uncalled for. You weren't attacked, so stop trying to trash Slowboy--it's unprofessional.

That said, SBR has brought more evidence to the table than any vendor so far. I asked for some proof of the EvoGT's inferiority in the first thread about the EvoGT, and Mark agreed to do some tests to demonstrate the poorer build quality. The page they've produced is informative and well-done. I suspect they will sell more turbos because of it, just like they did after they created the Evo16g vs. other 16gs page. It isn't completely conclusive, but it makes sense, and is the *most* conclusive evidence anyone has offered so far.

I originally asked them to dyno test it too--but I've realized that this isn't their responsibility. They HAVE proven their flagship turbo--the MHI Evo16g--and they've proven it to 400whp. They aren't even selling these Chinese knockoffs, so I don't see why they should be the ones to dyno test them.

If I were TC.com or Buschur Racing or any other vendor that sells the Chinese knockoffs (and no, I won't stop calling them that), I would be scrambling to prove my case and get this turbo on the dyno. Or maybe I wouldn't be confident enough to do it...

Odds are this turbo will produce similar HP numbers to the real Evo 16g, but like Josh said, how will this turbo hold up to repeated, punishing 25 psi+ runs?

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Check back to the link above in about 10 minutes. We have a picture of 20g compressor wheel, EVO III GT wheel, and 50 trim next to one another.

I will also post pics of inlet, ported or non ported MHI?

Regards

Mike Huml

ported is fine. Its just, be honest here, we both know the evoIII has serious boost creep issues in the internal wastegate. Would the GT turbine housing help prevent that?

 

[1990greenGSX]

ported is fine. Its just, be honest here, we both know the evoIII has serious boost creep issues in the internal wastegate. Would the GT turbine housing help prevent that?

in the concept of Boost creep only here... yes the GT would help prevent that, BUT just as much as a Flappered MHI 16g as well.. Its not just the EVO that creeps all 16gs do.

Mark

 

[ShapeGSX]

ported is fine. Its just, be honest here, we both know the evoIII has serious boost creep issues in the internal wastegate. Would the GT turbine housing help prevent that?

One man's "issue" is another man's "secret" (that he blabs to anyone that will listen).

The GT housing looks to be so different that it is impossible to say if it will creep or not without trying it out. The sloppy difference in the volute design might be enough to stop creep if it destroys the turbine efficiency. If the housing has clearances that are too high, that will also keep the turbo from creeping. Then there is the larger flapper and the different shape of the inlet. But I think that the turbine-related stuff is more likely to stop creep than the wastegate mods, personally.

 

[david buschur]

I was contacted this morning and asked to dyno test the turbo. I don't have a DSM here to put it on, the lot is full of EVO's these days. The 3 DSM's that are here are monster build ups and would be a pain to convert.

I did read all of this and will continue to sell this turbo. As I said, they come with a 12 month 12,000 mile warranty and I am confident in the part.

Rock on.