1G stubborn crankshaft sprocket bolt

[pdxkris]

I recently bought a 1990 Laser RS w/ ~150k miles on it, and since the last owner couldn't tell me when the timing belt was last replaced, I'm currently in the process of replacing a whole slew of parts (fuel filter, IM/EM/turbo/head gaskets, timing components, etc) just as preventative maintenance.

So far things have gone pretty well (thanks to all the great posts here, along with the hanyes, chiltons, and backup CD), but the crankshaft sprocket is really giving me a hard time.

I thought I was prepared to take it off, since I have a 1/2" drive, 25" breaker bar and the crank holder tool (bought off ebay), but here's the results of that attempt :

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I saw another post where somebody said to leave the car in gear, set the e-brake, and have somebody hold the brakes down while trying to crack the bolt loose, but that didn't work either (sprocket spun).

so, I broke down and bought an electric impact wrench at HF (1/2" Electric Impact Wrench), but the bolt didn't budge.

I've heard about the idea of using the car's starter, as well as blocking the flywheel, but I'm wondering if there are better, safer, alternatives out there I should try first?

I don't have an air compressor, so air-impact is out. I considered a cheap air compressor from HF and a air-impact gun, but I don't think the cheap (<$150) air compressors have the necessary oomph (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks all

 

[belalerede]

Have you tried heating it up with a torch?

 

[pdxkris]

Not yet, I considered it, but wasn't sure if the heat generated would be safe for the crankshaft and/or front seal.

it's tempting, but I'd feel better hearing from somebody who's done it before.

 

[eclipsh]

On the last two I've done I had the engine out of the car. I put a long bar between bolts on the flywheel and stuck the other end against the ground. I still had to bounce the breaker bar at the front side a bit to get them loose. I don't think there are any better ways to get it off with the tranny in than what you've done. Best of luck

 

[ziggo0]

I simply brace the crank its self against the girdle or block with a 2x4, works every time (oil pan has to be off though).

 

[spoonman]

I remove the oil pan and place a clean (trash/old) shirt behind the crankshaft. This way when you rotate the crankshaft the counter weights of the crankshaft get held in place against the block.


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b39/thelmasofast/mod 07/CIMG0141.jpg
Just like Ziggo suggested but with a shirt.

 

[ziggo0]

^^good thinking, use what's on your back if you can't find a plank of wood haha.

 

[Ksone14]

what i did was grab 2 friends and took turns just kicking the wrench. took quite a bit of time and energy but it came out eventually.

 

[Demon33]

I've heard about the idea of using the car's starter

That's exactly how I got mine loose after I tried everything else you tried. Disconnect the MPI fuse so the car won't run and using a 1/2" drive breaker bar braced against the floor, quickly bump the starter until the bolt breaks loose. Mine came off on the first try.

 

[90moneypit]

The electric impact should work all by itself. You might have to let it hammer for a little bit (some liquid wrench wouldn't hurt either). I tried multiple different ways to stop the crank and use a breaker bar but none of them worked, used the electric impact, 5-6 seconds later it was off. Only thing I recommend is that you use impact socket and not a chrome socket, you'll trash a chrome socket using an impact.

On a side note, you don't need to 'stop' the crank when you use an impact,

 

[belalerede]

I have removed several with a torch. You have to keep the heat focused on the bolt. Just warm it up don't melt it. The crank will be fine. Then use the electric impact on it. You should already be replacing the seal anyway as it is just as old as the timing belt.

 

[pdxkris]

I have removed several with a torch. You have to keep the heat focused on the bolt. Just warm it up don't melt it...

What kind of torch, and how long should I leave it on the bolt? I was focusing on other areas of the car today, but I did try once using a small handheld butane torch (think "jet" lighter) for about 30 seconds, then let the electric impact crank away for a good 10 seconds.... but it didn't budge WTF

The car's at my parents and I won't be back up that way until this coming weekend, but I'm determined to get that bolt of then!

 

[bostonhatcher]

Find a friend with a good impact and a mobile compressor to come snap it loose for you. Dude you need torque, not heat. It's not rusted on there like an axle nut.

Use an actual socket over the bolt instead of sticking the impact directly inside the bolt.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

Curious, are you using the 1/2" opening in the middle or a 22mm socket on the outside? Try a 22mm 1/2" drive 6-point short impact socket with the electric impact and some PB Blaster or similar lube. The stater method works too but either way you should use the 22mm outside edge and not the 1/2" middle. GL

 

[pdxkris]

I've been using a 1/2" drive 22mm impact socket for every attempt I've made. I also sprayed it with PB Blaster about 6 times throughout the day today before making my last attempt.

I'm starting to wonder if the last guy used JB-Weld on it

I'll most likely try the starter method this weekend when I get a chance to try again.

 

[eclipsh]

I haven't read up on the starter method but I'm sure you're already aware if the timing belt is off and the head is on you could bend a lot of valves if you crank the motor over. Be sure to avoid that. Popping the rocker arms off is pretty easy and will ensure you don't have contact. Good luck

 

[belalerede]

What kind of torch, and how long should I leave it on the bolt? I was focusing on other areas of the car today, but I did try once using a small handheld butane torch (think "jet" lighter) for about 30 seconds, then let the electric impact crank away for a good 10 seconds.... but it didn't budge WTF

The car's at my parents and I won't be back up that way until this coming weekend, but I'm determined to get that bolt of then!

An oxygen/ acetelyne torch If you don't have one you might be able to rent it. but if you are going to do your own work you might look at buying one. You can try a propane torch but it is going to take a while. You need to heat the bolt up until it is hot. 30 seconds with a butane torch is not nearly long enough. If you get an oxy torch practice on some scrap metal. wear gloves and goggles as well otherwise you will go blind and end up in the burn unit. Also if you want to try the breaker bar if you can but a wrench on the flywheel and keep it from turning that way. I have also wedge a prybar on the flywheel and then used my leg to push on the breaker bar.

 

[EuroDriver]

I have a simple but effective method that I used the first time. Use the car jack... I used a 3 Ton jack. I simply place the breaker bar end into jack's cup and used it to turn/leverage the crank bolt. The jack WILL NOT give because it's on the most solid surface and it's hydraulically pushing the wrench and turning the bolt. Good Luck

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I recently had the same issue...only the block was out of the car. xD

Air-Impact...Cranked that bastard right the hell off. Period.

I hammered on that thing for a day or two.. used MASSIVE wrenches... everything I could. Could NOT get the damned nut off.

Impact = Easy as hell. Might as well get one. It'll make your life FOLDS better.

 

[90moneypit]

I have a simple but effective method that I used the first time. Use the car jack... I used a 3 Ton jack. I simply place the breaker bar end into jack's cup and used it to turn/leverage the crank bolt. The jack WILL NOT give because it's on the most solid surface and it's hydraulically pushing the wrench and turning the bolt. Good Luck

I've used this method on some other stubborn bolts (axle nut rusted) and it works to a point. The only thing I suggest is using a block of wood under the jack so you don't crack the concrete like I did.

I'm just shocked (no pun) that the electric impact wasn't working. Is it a 110v or one of those rechargeable ones? I've seen some cheap ones showing up lately but mine was only around $100 a couple years ago and works great.

 

[rarest_90_DsM]

Good air impact backed by 100psi will do the trick every time. my buddy's got one of those harbor freight impacts it just doesn't have the torque not even there pneumatic impacts. Get a good one

 

[95g-s-x]

Just go to a local shop and have them take it out with their imact if u dont want to buy one. Then have them stug it back up but not hammer on it. You should be all set from there.

I just did my timing belt yesterday, and it came right out with the impact with no belts on......crank didnt even turn.......but then again, my snap on impact has 1100 ft lbs of torque

 

[romeen]

I have a simple but effective method that I used the first time. Use the car jack... I used a 3 Ton jack. I simply place the breaker bar end into jack's cup and used it to turn/leverage the crank bolt. The jack WILL NOT give because it's on the most solid surface and it's hydraulically pushing the wrench and turning the bolt. Good Luck

This is an interesting idea but how did you keep the crank from turning?


pdxkris, where is the car at?

 

[ramsack]

just put a long breaker bar on it the same direction that your holding device for the sprocket is on, making it hit the ground, and use the starter. it should only take a small blip of the starter to do it, and it's not unsafe.

 

[pdxkris]

Just go to a local shop and have them take it out with their imact if u dont want to buy one. Then have them stug it back up but not hammer on it. You should be all set from there.

Tempting, but the car is all torn apart right now, as I'm in the middle of redoing all the gaskets, vacuum lines, etc too. The head isn't even on right now.

pdxkris, where is the car at?

It's at my parent's house on a mountain in Newberg, OR at the moment (I think that's what you were after?)

I haven't read up on the starter method but I'm sure you're already aware if the timing belt is off and the head is on you could bend a lot of valves if you crank the motor over. Be sure to avoid that. Popping the rocker arms off is pretty easy and will ensure you don't have contact. Good luck

I was aware, but thanks for the heads up . I'm much more comfortable entertaining the idea of using the starter method now because the head is off and I don't have to worry about the valves.

I'm just shocked (no pun) that the electric impact wasn't working. Is it a 110v or one of those rechargeable ones?

Me too! The link to the exact impact gun is in the first post if you're curious. Yes, its a 110v model.


The eBay vendor sent me a new crank tool, so I plan on using that to tighten the bolt back down when I'm done. At this point I'm leaning towards the starter method to get the bolt out though.