Stock wastegate broken? minimum boost is 22psi(heeelp)

[kamronman]

Ok, I've just got done putting my car together, and i've been testing it but not pulling hard because of the new clutch that still needs to be broken in. But about 35% throttle the boost slams up to about 20 psi! which on the stock pump and injectors, i hit fuel cut right then and there. sooo the boost gauge's peak recall is telling me 22 psi is what it's hit. I know the gate opens i can pull it open with my hand, but is maybe the diaphragm torn? it's the 14b with stock actuator and it should only creep a few pounds.

--3" o2 housing and exhaust

--no BCS

--no MBC

can this really cause it to creep what, 14 psi over stock?

So far i've just decided 22 psi will be a minimum and i'll pick up a walbro and evo injectors then just tune for 22psi. I'd rather not do that but if i have to I will...

 

[STEVEn95tsi]

Do you have a Aftermarket Boost Gauge??...

-Reason your boost is flying up there, is cause you have nothing regulating it...You need some type of controller on that vacuum source going to the wastegate.... or else .... it'll just go with the intake pressure until it cant go NO MORE...click...click..BOOM!!!!.... Getting a Boost controller is a lot cheaper than buying a pump and injectors...

 

[rocafellafw]

Do you have a Aftermarket Boost Gauge??...

-Reason your boost is flying up there, is cause you have nothing regulating it...You need some type of controller on that vacuum source going to the wastegate.... or else .... it'll just go with the intake pressure until it cant go NO MORE...click...click..BOOM!!!!.... Getting a Boost controller is a lot cheaper than buying a pump and injectors...

I always thought if you run a line directly to your wastegate it will open according to the spring inside, which should be stock boost pressure of the turbo.

 

[joe sobo]

i tried to run a line from my turbo right to the wastegate, and that doesn't help either. sorry for hyjacking

 

[STEVEn95tsi]

Stock pressure is controlled by the stock BCS. The BCS gives a certain amount of vacuum to the wastegate to control when it opens. Without any kinda control, the spring will have to open at maximum pressure, which in this case is 22psi.

--Kinda like your stock FPR. It controls the amount of fuel that gets to the rail. If its over-powered by too much fuel, then it'll just stay open...

- Please correct me, if i'm wrong...

 

[1992GSX]

If you're not running the stock BCS and you dont have an MBC then the boost is just going up to where the internal wastegate is set, which, by the sounds of it, is 22 psi. You have two options, either hook up the BCS again or get a boost controller. What you're doing right now is the same as if someone who had an MBC (with no BCS of course) and just left it wide open. Go get a boost controller.

 

[kamronman]

Ok this sounds alright and all, but the stock spring in the stock gate is supposed to open up at 9psi. So how would putting a controller on there help at all, the controller helps with maximum boost not minimum, and if i put the BCS back on I'm pretty sure nothing will change. BUT-because theres that slight possibility, i'll do it then get back to you guys thanks! keep giving me options though.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Ok this sounds alright and all, but the stock spring in the stock gate is supposed to open up at 9psi. So how would putting a controller on there help at all, the controller helps with maximum boost not minimum, and if i put the BCS back on I'm pretty sure nothing will change. BUT-because theres that slight possibility, i'll do it then get back to you guys thanks! keep giving me options though.

^ That or get an MBC or go external

 

[kamronman]

Ok guys, I tried the BCS, same shit happened. Then I tried a MBC. Still boosting up to 22-24 psi..But if i even do a 50% pull, FUEL CUT. Sooo because there's no boost leaks or anything. I'm gunna just tune for 25 psi. So I'm trying to get ahold of some evo injectors, either an evo fuel pump or walbro 255, then either an evo MAF or a 2g MAF. Anyone have an idea??

 

[talontd92tsi]

How exactly do you have your vacuum lines hooked up, it sounds to me like theres a vac line off somewhere. If you have no vacuum line to the actuator it will go to 20+psi very quickly, but if you hook a vac line to it, it will open at 9psi.

 

[silentscreamer]

Also check to makes sure that your boost referance line to the wastegate actuator doesnt have any rips or melted parts. i had this happen to me and the boost is only regulated by when the turbo can blow the wastegate open (very bad unless you can tune for it), like you said a MBC doesn't count for lowering the setting for boost, the minimum boost level is always the wastegate spring.

 

[noonan98turbo]

I am having the same problem after just installing a big 16g. I was told to go external wastegate and it will solve the issue. Havnt done it yet but when I do I will let you know if it completely solves the problem.

 

[kamronman]

do you guys think i'm retarted? Ofcourse there's a solid fat vac line to the actuator..OR there wouldn't be a problem worth posting would there

So can someone be serious for a second. I know that running an external gate will absolutely fix this problem. I'm concerned about what I should do!

Options:

1. Port out turbo+wastegate orifice

2. Buy tial gate with o2 mounting housing

3. Buy injectors, and pump to tune for 25psi

4. Never be able to WOT my car ever..

None of these options are non hassle or free. So if you guys can help me with other minimum boost control options!!!

 

[rnstphns]

I would say go external. Its probably the most expensive option, but then again its the safest for your motor. It sounds to me like theres a problem with the wastegate its self so even with bigger injectors and a tune the boost still has the possibility of being spuratic. If you've never been able to go WOT who knows what the boost level is acually going to stop at. I would rather spend a little extra and know things are working properly.

 

[daver36]

I'm definately a newb but I gotta agree with this guy for what little I know. If the stock actuator is set for 9psi then with the line going straight to the actuator you should only get 9 psi shouldn't you? I thought all a boost controller did was limity pressure to the actuator so that it thinks it's only getting 9psi when the motor is getting whatever your controller is set to. My grasp on it was your minimum boost is whatever your wastegate spring is set for and the controller is used to take it higher. You can even see pics of aftermarket turbos with the actuator line running straight off the nipple on the compressor housing, same prinicple as he has right now. I would have to agree with your original thought kamronman and say your actuator is fried somehow. I'd just try and find a junkyard one first and try that. No stock 14b actuator has a stock 22 psi spring that I can imagine, and how on earth would the bcs help if there was one. Can it "create" higher pressure that the engine isn't seeing inorder to make a 22psi spring open at 9 psi? That makes no sense to me.

Now, boost creep could be an issue. I agree that 14 psi of creep sounds light alot but if your running a 3 inch exhaust (cat or cat-less?) that will start creep on a non-ported wastegate. If 16G (turbo) guys have boost set to 17-18 psi with creep going to 20+ psi (like i've heard about) than that could make sence for you. I would think it doesn't matter how low your boost it set, your going to boost creep to a certain level no matter what based on the restrictions or lack there of on your personal set-up. I would imagine that those same 16G guys set at 17-18 psi if they where to turn their controllers down to 12psi, would still creep to 20+ (or whatever they were before).

So to sum it all up, I would say (with my very limited knowledge) that it may be an actuator problem and most likely is a boost creep issue (at least somewhat or aiding to another existing problem) but not having a bcs or mbc being the issue makes no sense to me

 

[cardot33]

check to see if you have any washers on the wastegate too. i had the same problem when i bought my car, and i looked at those damn washers a million times and didn't figure it out. once i pulled them out the car runs a solid 11psi (but being a 16g its very prone to boost creep so I run a stock exhaust).

 

[nlzn]

It shouldn't go that high.

The wastegate on my 16g died a few months ago. Was different hitting throttle and ya, my boost guage pegged 32lbs. Yes it scared the hell out of me. But it also made me happy in the holy-god-im-glad-i-built-the-motor sort of way.

The stock spring on the internal gate on the e316g is 10lbs. Sounds like your WG isn't opening, period. I'd check the actuation rod and if possible find some1 locally that will let you swap it out to test.

You can test from a 14b too.

 

[kamronman]

Ok that was a super long response from a guy who doesn't drive a DSM, but he does have a brain!! The bcs or a mbc shouldn't do ANYTHING. And the people that posted that need to do some homework. I'd love to run external gate!!! --If you'll send me the 300 bucks for everything

But i can open the gate with my hands pretty easily by pulling on the actuator arm, so i know it CAN open. Maybe the diaphragm is torn inside letting some air by, BUT!!! the thing is, last time i drove my car before my license was suspended, i knew it worked, the car ran a solid 11psi no problem when it was bone stock. I have a DSM master that helps me with my car, and he's made it clear the problem is massive creep. So now that I have a datalogger and mmcd on it, I can finally see how crapped out my injector duty cycle is haha. Then basically go from there.

I neeeed to go external! If anyone finds an o2 housing or tial gate pleaase let me know!

 

[kamronman]

Ok guys now minimum boost is 30 psi, and that's the furthest my gauge goes...then it goes lean and the car shits on itself. i'm ordering a pump tomorrow!

 

[Andrew Conrady]

I'm definately a newb but I gotta agree with this guy for what little I know. If the stock actuator is set for 9psi then with the line going straight to the actuator you should only get 9 psi shouldn't you? I thought all a boost controller did was limity pressure to the actuator so that it thinks it's only getting 9psi when the motor is getting whatever your controller is set to. My grasp on it was your minimum boost is whatever your wastegate spring is set for and the controller is used to take it higher. You can even see pics of aftermarket turbos with the actuator line running straight off the nipple on the compressor housing, same prinicple as he has right now. I would have to agree with your original thought kamronman and say your actuator is fried somehow. I'd just try and find a junkyard one first and try that. No stock 14b actuator has a stock 22 psi spring that I can imagine, and how on earth would the bcs help if there was one. Can it "create" higher pressure that the engine isn't seeing inorder to make a 22psi spring open at 9 psi? That makes no sense to me.

Now, boost creep could be an issue. I agree that 14 psi of creep sounds light alot but if your running a 3 inch exhaust (cat or cat-less?) that will start creep on a non-ported wastegate. If 16G (turbo) guys have boost set to 17-18 psi with creep going to 20+ psi (like i've heard about) than that could make sence for you. I would think it doesn't matter how low your boost it set, your going to boost creep to a certain level no matter what based on the restrictions or lack there of on your personal set-up. I would imagine that those same 16G guys set at 17-18 psi if they where to turn their controllers down to 12psi, would still creep to 20+ (or whatever they were before).

So to sum it all up, I would say (with my very limited knowledge) that it may be an actuator problem and most likely is a boost creep issue (at least somewhat or aiding to another existing problem) but not having a bcs or mbc being the issue makes no sense to me

Kinda agree, your acuator is done. Hook up some air and a boost gauge, see how far and when it opens. If it's not working correctly change it. Should fix this simple problem. All that other stuff to me sounds incorrect. Had this happen before twice. Put a different one on there if you want, you should see a differenct.

 

[chadnum1]

put a hand pump vacuum like for brakes on the wastegate nipple and see if it holds vacuum. If your actuator is shot replacing it would be your cheapest and easiest option.

 

[Lusion972]

Your wastegate actuator is toast, it should have alot of pressure that pulling it by hand should be difficult. A MBC was a retarded idea, those only up the boost not lower it beyond the wastegate actuators specs. You can either order a stock replacement from the dealer which will be expensive or go to Forced Performance Turbochargers or Welcome To Extreme PSI and see if they have one you can get. That or hit up a junk yard and grab one off a car.

 

[viprez586]

I have like 3 actuators from 14bs laying around. That'll bring your boost levels in check, let me know.

 

[kamronman]

Ok guys, i replaced the stock wastegate and the car ran like it recovered form a vac leak! it was amazing how flawlessly it ran..then after a pull it still hit 20-25psi and now the car runs just as shitty as it usually did so obviously i ####ed the second one up.. i guess my only way out is to run an external :/