Stock internals on 4g63 how far can you go?

[VicBoost]

Anyways i have been reading the tech guide a lot lately as i wanna reach my goal of over 400awhp. But this car is my daily/track car. Just wondering how much hp can these stock internals actually handle. The tech guide said you can get a reliable 400hp on the stock internals. Obviously i will be puttin the boost down when i'm daily driven. Also whats a recommended place to get good internals for the 4g63. Thanks! i want high hp but reliable at the same time.

Vic.

 

[caliboy23]

Mike Rizzoti put down 585 awhp on his first gen 6 bolt. Of course that motor was very well tuned with his AEM. Just remember if your gunna drive it on the street you'll be limited by your fuel octane, not your turbo size. Very rarely will you see people putting down more than 450 on pump gas. Usually when they do exceed that they have a VERY large turbo and often times a stroker kit.

What you have to remember on these cars is that knowledge is power. Knowledge of these cars, especially the first gens tells you that these tranny's don't like to be shifted over 8500 RPM. So if you wanna get the most outta your transmission and the most outta your low RPM power band, a 2.3 stroker would be highly advised. You can find the full stroker rotating assemblies for only $1500.

I think you have the right idea though. Evaluate your goals, make sure you have enough fuel, and get that baby tuned. You'll have a lot of fun with 350 hp and even more with 400. Good luck man. I hope to see you running fast times at the track.

 

[caliboy23]

There is one guy here in DSMtuners who made 550 whp on stock internals. Do a search on his mods. If you're looking for a good block, go get the Buschur block. That's what John Shepherd uses.

Yeah but John Shepherds block is now "filled" for extra support. Not exactly an off the shelf option.

 

[JayRolla]

You need a new mechanic

When you start getting into forged internals and such the diffrence between the 6 bolt and the 7 isn't that notuicable but the 6 is usually the choice of most. Saying 6 bolt smake better s.0ls is just dumb how good your stroker is is determined by what internals you choose to use same with 2.0l. Of course you can make a stronger 7 bolt then 6 bolt use stronger stuff .

When I said if you want 500whp go 6 bolt I wasn't talkin bult I just meant rebuilt stock 6 bolt. I have a rebuilt 6 bolt long block with a couple other goodies and I will be pusing around 500whp and I know it's not only doable but likely it will be reliable because I have seen it first hand in cars that have been owned by friends not people I read about online. Reliablity is in the tune

Man I wish I would have replied a long time ago to this, but my mechanic has been building strokers since the beginning! He builds only 7 bolt strokers because the crank can handle higher revs and less chances of failing. Has nothing to do with the rods/pistons but the crank failing at high rpm. He also has a fix for crankwalk(secret) and gives lifetime warranty against crankwalk on his 7 bolt strokers. My next motor will be a 7 bolt stroker and removing my 6 bolt to build a high rev motor one day. Ohh and this is Jack at jacktransmissions.com.

Just to add I'm running 30+psi and lots of timing on a stock longblock with no issues.

 

[Slippi84]

Man I wish I would have replied a long time ago to this, but my mechanic has been building strokers since the beginning! He builds only 7 bolt strokers because the crank can handle higher revs and less chances of failing. Has nothing to do with the rods/pistons but the crank failing at high rpm. He also has a fix for crankwalk(secret) and gives lifetime warranty against crankwalk on his 7 bolt strokers. My next motor will be a 7 bolt stroker and removing my 6 bolt to build a high rev motor one day. Ohh and this is Jack at jacktransmissions.com.

Just to add I'm running 30+psi and lots of timing on a stock longblock with no issues.

Just because he likes building 7 bolts more than 6 bolts doesn't mean that they are better. If you balnce your stroker and pick up a good new OEM or even a eagle crank your crank will not fail. If anything it's the bearings that will give out from high reving strokers when everything is built right. EVen then if it's REALLY built right you can do what twick does and treat your bearings and grove them for better oil cooling and be set.

 

[ja12ke]

ya slippi84 is right. 7-bolts hold up better at high rpm's. and its been known for awhile now that by porting an oil vein around the main thrust bearing for the crank you can eliminate the whole crankwalk issue

 

[99gst_racer]

what bout boost? how many psi are enough on stock internals?

Asking how much "PSI" is not the proper question. That just gives you a general idea of how much your working a turbo. You cannot compare PSI levels on engines running different turbos from each other.

The better question would be, "How much airflow (lbs/min) can the stock block handle?" Volume flow rate is comparable from engine to engine, regardless of turbo size and PSI number. Afterall, 30 psi on a 16G is very much different than 30 psi on a GT42R.

 

[96mitsugsx]

Yeah but John Shepherds block is now "filled" for extra support. Not exactly an off the shelf option.

That's what Dave Buschur said. I don't think that he would say that if it wasn't true. He wouldn't do that or else he would lose his customers. Right?

 

[99gst_racer]

That's what Dave Buschur said. I don't think that he would say that if it wasn't true. He wouldn't do that or else he would lose his customers. Right?

I think you're mis-reading. Nobody said anything about Dave lying. caliboy23 is correct - Shep's been running a filled block ever since he switched to methanol.

Even still, the Buschur blocks aren't bulletproof. They can blow up and/or need servicing just like any other suppliers blocks. Even Shep's had to service his between passes/races.

 

[soldave]

Asking how much "PSI" is not the proper question. That just gives you a general idea of how much your working a turbo. You cannot compare PSI levels on engines running different turbos from each other.

The better question would be, "How much airflow (lbs/min) can the stock block handle?" Volume flow rate is comparable from engine to engine, regardless of turbo size and PSI number. Afterall, 30 psi on a 16G is very much different than 30 psi on a GT42R.

So would would an answer to this question be?

 

[dsm-onster]

Asking how much "PSI" is not the proper question. That just gives you a general idea of how much your working a turbo. You cannot compare PSI levels on engines running different turbos from each other.

The better question would be, "How much airflow (lbs/min) can the stock block handle?" Volume flow rate is comparable from engine to engine, regardless of turbo size and PSI number. Afterall, 30 psi on a 16G is very much different than 30 psi on a GT42R.

A-flippin'-men!

And on that note, the 6-bolt has see over 60 lb/min with one user. . . Not everyone will be able to do this, but it's possible IF and only IF you have a good. . . good. . . and good tune. KNOCK kills engines, not power within reason.

 

[soldave]

KNOCK kills engines, not power within reason.

Which is what I'm going to have to try and get rid of during my tuning session tonight. Already running into it at 1.3 bar with the new 50-trim installed and I'm on meth. Hopefully a degree out of the timing when it starts will sort things out.

Sorry, went off on a tangent then.

 

[JayRolla]

That is not the only thing needed to stop crank walk but it does help a lot. When building a cheap stroker a stock 7 bolt crank is the way to go. Those aftermarket cranks get expensive. Im just trying to say that I would take one of his 7 bolt strokers over a 6 bolt anyday after he showed me some cranks that had failed.

 

[joker96]

what bout a gt35 turbo? a mjust asking couse theres a friend of mine tha has a 7bolt engine on stock internals with a gt35 turbo a 4 inch intercooler or something like that an he wants to tune the car at 30lbs so i was just wondering how much could the engine handle and if it was a healthy amount for a daily driver

 

[dsm-onster]

Well, here's your answer.

 

[Slippi84]

That is not the only thing needed to stop crank walk but it does help a lot. When building a cheap stroker a stock 7 bolt crank is the way to go. Those aftermarket cranks get expensive. Im just trying to say that I would take one of his 7 bolt strokers over a 6 bolt anyday after he showed me some cranks that had failed.

This is what you have to understand. Your making general comments about 7 bolts and 6 bolts when it just seems like this guy has a special thing he does with 7 bolt stroker setups that alows them to rev without the worries of normal stroker setups. That doesn't mean that all 7 bolts make better strokers. Eagle cranks are not that expensive either. They sell stroker kits with eagle crnaks 7 or 6 bolt for 1500 and that comes with wiesco pistons eagle H beams and eagle crank and acl bearings.

 

[99gst_racer]

So would would an answer to this question be?

I don't have an exact answer for that question, but I can share my experience.

My previous set-up was a stock 7-bolt long block with the Comp 200 cams, SMIM, and a T3 50-trim running about 30 psi. At that boost level, I was very close to maxing the turbo out. My last logs showed airflow around 47-48 lbs/min. After a run-in with a wastegate plumbing issue, I accidentally over-boosted one day (40+ psi) for a few seconds, and that was enough to bend three rods. I have no clue how much airflow I peaked when it happened, but I would guess a little over 50 lbs/min. But I'm also assuming that I was knocking as it happened, as my tune was aggressive and wasn't set-up for more than 30-32 psi.

In short, I personally wouldn't push a stock 7-bolt block much past 50 lbs/min. It might be able to handle a bit more, but probably not in the most reliable fashion. And I also agree with what dsm-onster said above. At airflow amounts this high, engine tune is critical. Any substantial amounts of knock will result in disaster.

The 6-bolt has stronger rods, so they can handle higher amounts of airflow that the 7-bolt rods. But, I've never tested the limits of the stock 6-bolt shortblock (yet), so I cannot comment on that.

 

[JayRolla]

This is what you have to understand. Your making general comments about 7 bolts and 6 bolts when it just seems like this guy has a special thing he does with 7 bolt stroker setups that alows them to rev without the worries of normal stroker setups. That doesn't mean that all 7 bolts make better strokers. Eagle cranks are not that expensive either. They sell stroker kits with eagle crnaks 7 or 6 bolt for 1500 and that comes with wiesco pistons eagle H beams and eagle crank and acl bearings.

No I'm just sayin the 6 bolt crank has a fail spot and the 7 bolt crank doesnt. Anyone can build a better 7 bolt stroker just because they used the 7 bolt crank. He has been building them for over 5 years and has had zero failed 7 bolt strokers and 2 6 bolts fail that I know of. And they failed in the same spot on the crank.

 

[Slippi84]

No I'm just sayin the 6 bolt crank has a fail spot and the 7 bolt crank doesnt. Anyone can build a better 7 bolt stroker just because they used the 7 bolt crank. He has been building them for over 5 years and has had zero failed 7 bolt strokers and 2 6 bolts fail that I know of. And they failed in the same spot on the crank.

Were they high hp cars or just broke from regular setups. Of course regular is relative but less than 500whp i'll say.

eBay Motors: Eagle Stroker Kit Wiseco 6Bolt Evo Eclipse 4G63 4G64 (item 360078078345 end time Aug-14-08 06:48:33 PDT)

Crank problem solved

 

[JayRolla]

Were they high hp cars or just broke from regular setups. Of course regular is relative but less than 500whp i'll say.

eBay Motors: Eagle Stroker Kit Wiseco 6Bolt Evo Eclipse 4G63 4G64 (item 360078078345 end time Aug-14-08 06:48:33 PDT)

Crank problem solved

Everyone I know with a forged stroker motor is making 500-700whp. No reason not to be with that setup. If you want to stay under 500whp a stock longblock is the better choice. Dont have to worry about piston slap or any of the other issues with forged motors.

You can build a stroker yourself for a lot cheaper than that $1500 kit, and thats starting with nothing.