stock injectors?

[DSM "BISH"]

when i typed my topic in the search box did not open up. i was wondering, i have a 1993 eagle talon turbo FWD and was wondering what the stock injector size was that the car came with? i bought mine with 550cc injectors.

 

[t25fury]

all turbo/5-speeds came with 450's stock.The automatics came with smaller injectors.

 

[95 'clipse RS]

the 5spd manuals came with 450cc injectors, and the autos came with 390cc inectors.

 

[steve]

Perhaps looking through the 1000 Already Answered Questions might keep you entertained for a while.

 

[DSM "BISH"]

thanks ill be sure to check it out steve. so i go the BIG 16g turbo with 550cc injectors, and brand new stock turbo fuel pump and fuel filter. how much boost do you think i could push safetly on this setup?

 

[2gawdtsi]

15 psi. dont go any higher until you get upraded fuel pump, afpr, etc. and a way to tune. Plus fuel cut is at 16 psi anyways.

 

[the_mork]

15 psi. dont go any higher until you get upraded fuel pump, afpr, etc. and a way to tune. Plus fuel cut is at 16 psi anyways.

Where in the hell is this coming from lately?

Stock fuel cut does not happen at 16psi it happens when the ecu believes there is more airflow than the fuel system can handle. The ecu does not have any way to know that your car is running 16psi, 40psi, or 592423psi. IIRC 2g cars have a 1bar MDP sensor and the only use for it is checking EGR function.

So what psi does fuel cut happen at then? That all depends on what you've done to your car, temp, humidity, atmospheric pressure, load, your turbo, boost leaks, MAF calibration, and what type of air freshener you use.

Fuel cut is a function of airflow not boost therefore in theory you could hit fuel cut without any boost if your car flowed really really really well.

A guy with a good setup, close to sea level, and driving on a cold night will probably hit fuel cut at way lower pressure than a guy with a stock car at a high altitude when it is warm out.

 

[PIMking]

The mork is right.

In my 90 I sometimes got fuel cut at 17psi and I ran it at the track on 20 psi no problems (16g) of fuel cut, I'm sure I was super lean due to the fact I melted a piston down later that night.

 

[the_mork]

To answer the OPs question about his setup, even with the 550s you aren't going to do much better than stock without an upgraded fuel pump so stick with either stock pressure or do some reading to find out what is safe, generally 15psi is recommended for those without an upgraded fuel system.

DSMs come with a pretty well matched fuel pump and injectors from the factory. Pretty much you need to upgrade your injectors and your fuel pump in order to gain any more fuel. Fortunately we have some cheap options. A Warlboro 190lph fuel pump is just fine for most drivers with a 16g, a 255lph is probably overkill and requires about $200 more investment because you'll need an AFPR. Even better than either option IMO is an evo9 fuel pump because it outflows the 190, doesn't require an AFPR like the 255, and is cheaper than either. The evo8 pump is an option as well but due to a poor design involving a pressure relief valve it maxes out its fuel supply when you reach about 20psi of boost which is one of the very few things that actually has any real relationship to charge pressure because of the rising rate fuel pressure regulators that we use in turbo cars.

 

[rush2252]

Question to Mork. I see alot of referene to the evo9 pumps being a good cheap upgrade. Is there a place to pick these up besides online? Everytime I try to have the guys at Oreillys Napa Autozone etc look up parts they can only come up with options for the Lancer NA not the EVO.. Just curious as my original pump has 140k and Im working on installing a 14b

-Thanks
Kolby

 

[steve]

I see alot of referene to the evo9 pumps being a good cheap upgrade. Is there a place to pick these up besides online?

They area cheap upgrade if you can get one used. New, from the dealer, I'm sure they are more expensive than a new walbro pump.

 

[DSM "BISH"]

thank you all for your help. and mork you put some great info on. so waht if i upgraded to a good aftermarket fuel pressure regulator and got like an apexi fuel tuner of some sort?

 

[brian9397gsx]

if you go with a fuel tuner youll want at least a datalogger to dial it in. plus changing airflows and fuel to the ecu you want to know whats going on. with that you will have no question what is safe you will know what is safe on your set up

 

[2gawdtsi]

oops, i knew 15 psi was recommended until the fuel system was upgraded, and keep hearing fuel cut is 16psi on here, so i figured thats why 15psi was recommended. my bad guys.

 

[the_mork]

thank you all for your help. and mork you put some great info on. so waht if i upgraded to a good aftermarket fuel pressure regulator and got like an apexi fuel tuner of some sort?

This is a question worth of a lot of research. If you go with a large pump (wally 255lph HP) and a good AFPR then you are fine with that setup.

The Apexi fuel tuner you mention (usually called an SAFC) is a decent tuning device for our cars and can usually support up to about 650cc injectors on a 2g and slightly less than that on a 1g. The issue is that an SAFC lies to your computer about airflow and at lower airflow values you receive greater timing advance. What you end up with as the injectors get larger is greater timing advance and airflow combined than your motor can handle without knocking. It is a device that has served the DSM community pretty well but IMO there are other options.

For all DSMs you can get:

ECMlink: This is the best tuning solution out there short of a full blown standalone EMS but it is also expensive, you need an Eprom ecu, for 2gs they cost about $200 for 1gs they cost about $150 assuming you aren't lucky enough to have one (it is close enough to the truth to say that only 95s have a 2g eprom ecu in them). The tuning system itself is another $500-$600.

Keydiver chips: Again you'll need an eprom ecu but the chip is much cheaper, around $300 but this is not an adjustable tune, you send him all of your information and he creates a chip for you, it is $20 to have him change something on it later. Fine tuning is then done with an SAFC.


For 1gs:

Jackal: This is a community project that is free but requires about $300-$400 in hardware, it is a true speed density setup and people seem to like it.


For 2gs:

Evo8 ecu: For $200 you can swap your ecu to an evo8 ecu and purchase a cable and software to tune it. This has all of the abilities of ECMlink but also has a higher learning curve.

 

[usdrew]

if you plan to run a fairly mild setup, an SAFC will do fine. a friend of mine has a 20g and 720's on his 2g..the safc doesn't do him many favors.

iirc, a new walbro pump runs somewhere around $150. ive used these in all my turbo car builds.

 

[the_mork]

I'm pretty sure most Warlboros are closer to $100.

 

[DSM "BISH"]

well i plan on staying around my current setup just upping the boost a little while i get a lot of other things straightend out so and SAFC would do good from what it sounds like for what i want right now. what would be a good manufacturer to go to get a AFPR? thanks again for all of your guys help!

 

[drufener07]

will the stock 450cc injectors in a 2gen work in a 1gen

 

[knochgoon24]

Yes. But if you're putting them in your N/T, you'll need some way to compensate for the increased injector flow rate. Your N/T has smaller injectors (240cc) than any of the turbo models.

 

[drufener07]

i got a 93 eclipse rebuilt motor with a 2gen head got the turbo wire harness with the resister box and turbo massive air flow senser with k&n air cleaner
will they work and will it work with stock fuel pump?

 

[steve]

Not sure if there is a difference in fuel pumps but you'll need a Turbo ECU.

 

[drufener07]

i have a good 10-20 ecu's how you tell if there turbo or not

 

[91stocker]

i have a good 10-20 ecu's how you tell if there turbo or not

Holy shit , 20 ecu's? Some of those might be worth $200 a pc.

Heres a link for eprom vs non eprom
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...ecu-eprom-vs-non-eprom-visual-comparison.html

As far as turbo vs non turbo ecu's. The turbo ecu's have a knock board. Its circled in green in this link.
http://www.dsmlink.com/wiki/ecu1gid



Another note:
Non eprom turbo ecu's can be converted to eprom though. So they have some value as well.

 

[TRSblader]

Check their numbers against this list of turbo ecu's