Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[96' Eclipse GS]

On to the Warranty! No, there should be any oil, grease, any containments inside the timing cover. The service should have cleaned everything and replace everything like new. Timing belt could have been eaten away because of the oil, or tensioner not working properly, causing it to fail like that. For now, Do not worry about the spark plugs, you have bigger problems to worry about after what I see....

 

[95eclipseguy]

I would check voltage output at the ecu. The link below will guide you the the correct pins. Obviously, if you have voltage there your wiring must be corrupt. If not, your ecu is either bad, or you are missing an input to the ecu. My wife's car had some wire connectors pulled out or partially pulled out of the plugs at the ecu causing two injectors to fail.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/281763-2g-turbo-ecu-pinout-w-wire-colors.html

As for the noid light, I know of no reason it would not work in our cars.

 

[95eclipseguy]

I would have to say yes, it is pointing to the ecu. I have one on the shelf that does the same thing. Every once in awhile the car would almost start but not quite. I put in a different ecu and it started right up.

 

[triggerx]

Yeah there is grease everywhere in there and it sucks, ### I'm really hoping nothin was damaged due to the timing belt coming apart like that. any suggestions on what I should do to prevent this from happening? I know my lower timing cover was compromised due to the old harmonic balancer chewing it up. But are there any seals that could explain all the grease on that side of the car?

 

[cliffkemp]

On to the Warranty! No, there should be any oil, grease, any containments inside the timing cover. The service should have cleaned everything and replace everything like new. Timing belt could have been eaten away because of the oil, or tensioner not working properly, causing it to fail like that. For now, Do not worry about the spark plugs, you have bigger problems to worry about after what I see....

If he just got belts changed, they are not going to clean up the grease/oil build up, unless he specified to do that. They are just going to change the belts and that is it.

Odds are, since your belt is now missing teeth, you bent a valve or 3.... while you were trying to crank it. They are not going to warranty any of that anyway.

The car is not out of time and broken. I would just do a rebuild now. Take the engine out and redo it so you know what you have. It will cost around 1500 depending on what all you will need done and all the seals. It can be much more than 1500 if you go all out but, 1500 will get you seals, head fixed, a few other goodies depending on if you do some of the work yourself. If you let a shop do all of it, will be much more.

Yeah there is grease everywhere in there and it sucks, ### I'm really hoping nothin was damaged due to the timing belt coming apart like that. any suggestions on what I should do to prevent this from happening? I know my lower timing cover was compromised due to the old harmonic balancer chewing it up. But are there any seals that could explain all the grease on that side of the car?

IF you do it right, pull the engine, replace all the seals, check your bearings, both rod and mains. Check rings and all specs for play in crank and crank journals.

Replace rear main seal, oil pump seal, front case seals, and get the head fixed by replacing valve seals. If the head is in decent shape, other than bent valves, replace the cam seals and lifters and that will just about get all the sealing done so you do not have all that oil/sludge build up. It is really not all that hard to do it yourself if you are a little mechanically inclined. Just label everything as you take it apart and take pictures every so often so you know how it was on to begin with and that is about it.

 

[92gsxbafaro]

That really sucks I just bought this ecu like a week ago

okay so i just bought annother ecu when i get it and if it is still doing the same thing what do you think the problem would be at that point?

 

[92gsxbafaro]

Pin 109 is the white wire from the ignition output transistor. It supplies the tach signal.

When I had this problem, the ECU was seeing the CAS signal but not supplying an output to the injectors. Since I dislike the `90 electronics, it was easy for me to make the decision to upgrade to `91. This upgrade included changing the output transistor to a `91.

Looking back, my problem may have been due to a bad ignition transistor, not the ECU. Even though I was getting a spark.

Try changing the output transistor for a known good one.

do those go bad often?

 

[Big B]

Hey the other day I when I was driving, I could not get any power. I would rev the engine but the rpms would barley go up. It seemed like it was a massive boost leak or a vacuum leak but I checked both and neither were the problem. I can barelyget enough juice to get out of first and the engine is shaking hard so I dont drive it. When in neutral the rpms drop to nearly nothing. Like around 200 rmp and it gets ready to stall. Now it wont start. I checked the t belt the spark plug and wires, the ignition coils. So I'm thinking it may be a fuel related problem. But I wanted to get some opinions before I go changing things out because it's going to be a hassle to change the fuel filte ### everything under the batter is rusted. Help! Any ideas?

 

[96' Eclipse GS]

Possible large vacuum leak! Do another BLT and if you think it is a fuel related problem, then move to checking what the fuel pressure is at the rail. Do a Noid Test afterwards, and see if the injectors are firing or dirty, etc.

 

[92AWDHX40]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

 

[u2slow]

Over the past 15 years or so, I`ve had this happen only once.....and I`m talking about at least 10 different DSMs. So, I`d say it doesn`t happen often.

I followed a simple no start chart I found on this board. Find it and follow it.

The chart led me to either a bad CAS or ECU. After trying several CASs, I decided it was the ECU. I had a `91 ECU so I did the `90 to `91 conversion, that also required a `91 ignition module.

The ECU and ignition transistor were changed at the same time. I don`t know which one was the culprit.

 

[92gsxbafaro]

Over the past 15 years or so, I`ve had this happen only once.....and I`m talking about at least 10 different DSMs. So, I`d say it doesn`t happen often.

I followed a simple no start chart I found on this board. Find it and follow it.

The chart led me to either a bad CAS or ECU. After trying several CASs, I decided it was the ECU. I had a `91 ECU so I did the `90 to `91 conversion, that also required a `91 ignition module.

The ECU and ignition transistor were changed at the same time. I don`t know which one was the culprit.

well i have a new ecu in the mail now so i will know soon thanks a lot ha

 

[dasander]

What's the normal voltage range for ecu output to the fuel injector pins?

 

[triggerx]

Man I wish I could, just don't have the money. The reason I took it up to the mechanic ### I was afraid of doing it myself and messing up the timing belt. But now I realized I probably should have. It's my dd so at the time it didn't seem logical.
Chances are I'm going to be in the market for another car, like a 2000 Subaru rs or something close.
In the mean time I need to take advantage of the warranty. They should fix the belt and anything that broke as a result of the timing belt being put on.
I totally understand these things happen, but that's customer service in a nut shell. My car probably would have been better off if I never replaced the timing belt.

Well since rebuild of some kind is eventually inevitable, I'm curious what you guys would recommed for mods. The goal is reliabilty and performance. In terms of power the car needs to be able to smoke the likes of these g35 coupes and mustang gts.

 

[steve]

What's the normal voltage range for ecu output to the fuel injector pins?

Common miss-conception. Most of the ECU circuits don't function by the ECU providing a voltage, instead the ECU switches a voltage provided elsewhere to ground to complete the circuit.

In the case of the injectors, they get power from the MPI/MFI circuit. On a turbo car there is battery voltage going to the injector resistor and the other side of the resistor runs to the injector. The other side of the injector goes to the ECU. You should see battery voltage at the injector until the ECU switch the injector on by pulling it's side to ground. Then you'll see a voltage drop across the injector resistor and another across the injector with the total drop very close to the battery voltage. The non-turbos use high impedance injectors that don't need the injector resistors.

The pulses where the injector is active are short, very short at idle in the range of ~2mS/rev so a DVM would likely read battery voltage at the ECU connector. A noid light triggers on the injector signal but stretches out the pulse so you can see it.

 

[96' Eclipse GS]

Did we get close to fixing the problem?

 

[cliffkemp]

Man I wish I could, just don't have the money. The reason I took it up to the mechanic ### I was afraid of doing it myself and messing up the timing belt. But now I realized I probably should have. It's my dd so at the time it didn't seem logical.
Chances are I'm going to be in the market for another car, like a 2000 Subaru rs or something close.
In the mean time I need to take advantage of the warranty. They should fix the belt and anything that broke as a result of the timing belt being put on.
I totally understand these things happen, but that's customer service in a nut shell. My car probably would have been better off if I never replaced the timing belt.

Well since rebuild of some kind is eventually inevitable, I'm curious what you guys would recommed for mods. The goal is reliabilty and performance. In terms of power the car needs to be able to smoke the likes of these g35 coupes and mustang gts.

16g will outrun a g35 at 20psi but to get the faster cars out today, just get a green and supporting mods with link and you will be outrunning just about anything with the tune of the PSI. A green will get you around 500 to the crank depending on other factors but it flows around 730cfm. Build the car right and it will be reliable just, take your time and do it right so you have no leaks.

 

[triggerx]

Alright thanks so much so far for the input you guys.

I picked the car up yesterday, they wanted 730 $ to do the camshaft seal, crankseal, and valve cover gasket. Get this, that included the warranty of the timing belt. They wouldnt replace the timing belt under warranty unless I paid the 730$ for the other work as well. So I took the civic and towed it out of there.
He said that the camshaft, crankshaft, and valve cover seal and gaskets need replacing.
Didnt say anything about bent pistons or anything, so I may either still be in luck, or they didnt really know what they were looking for.

Im going to be rebuilding it myself, however like cliffkemp was saying I do want to do it right, and I want to do as much as I possibly can while Im in there.

So heres my list, if anyone has anything to add please let me know so I can order it all at once through extreme.
1.Timing Belt
2.Rear Main Seal
3.Oil Pump
4.Front Case Seals
5.Lifters
4.Oil Pump Seal
5.Crankshaft seal
6.Valve Cover Gasket

Ive been looking at this,
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts
its a complete set, however Im thinking these parts mostly felpro, and Im not sure what the package consists of entirely

 

[DSM_Newblet]

Hey everyone I am new to the DSM world and am loving it so far but have come across a big problem. Last night my buddy, who is a seasoned tech on DSM, chipped a 95 eprom ecu for e85 so i replaced it with my stock 97 ecu and upgraded my stock injectors with 1000cc injectors because i was setting up for e85. Now for my setup, i have is a 1g block with 2g heads, stock internals, rewired walbro 255 fp, 1000cc injectors, 95 eprom ecu chipped for e85, full 3 inch exhaust, 14b turbo, aem boost gauge, aem a/f ratio gauge, arp head studs, nissan gtr bov, and a punishment racing FMIC. So pretty much all the suppporting mods except for a upgraded fuel pressure regulator. Now for my problem, after installing the 1000cc injectors and the 95 e85 chipped eprom ecu and draining my gas tank from the 91 oct fuel and filling it with e85 the dang thing won't start. It will just crank and crank and crank but no starting! The car ran just fine after my 1g swap (which i did myself and am very proud) and all the other mods except 1000cc injects and eprom ecu and the e85. So can anyone please help me on my crank no start problem? PLEASE!!
I hope that I have supported enough info on my car, thank you.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Did you make the necessarily changes for putting a 95 ecu in a 97?

Your buddy might be the person to be asking as they set the tune for the car up and will be the only person to know how the Chip is set... .

But other then that it's a matter of checking for Spark, Fuel, and Comprehension without any of those 3 your not gonna be getting the car to start... .

 

[faultywarrior]

...it's a matter of checking for Spark, Fuel, and Comprehension without any of those 3 your not gonna be getting the car to start... .

^This

Assuming you made the changes for the 95 ECU, undo them and put your stock 97 ECU back in. If it starts (i'll run like crap b/c of the huge injectors and E85), then that instantly narrows it down to either you messed up something when you did the changes or your tuned ECU is bad/non-working/etc.

 

[MY1GDSM]

^ Don't do this please...

Stock ECU with 1000cc injectors and E85 is not going to be a good mix. even running E85 that's a Extra 30ish % fuel... .

Do some simple tests for Fuel and Spark a compresion test as well a good once over of everything mechanical and electrical.

If all that checks out contact whoever burned your chip... . Also Logs if you have a way always help.

 

[faultywarrior]

^ Don't do this please...

Stock ECU with 1000cc injectors and E85 is not going to be a good mix. even running E85 that's a Extra 30ish % fuel... .

Do some simple tests for Fuel and Spark a compresion test as well a good once over of everything mechanical and electrical.

If all that checks out contact whoever burned your chip... . Also Logs if you have a way always help.

I never said to drive it/run it long/etc.; just start it for a couple of seconds. Running pig rich for a few seconds isn't going to blow you or your car up.

Like I said, check the basics first...or if you're worried, swap your stock injectors back...doesn't take that long.

 

[MY1GDSM]

I never said to drive it/run it long/etc.; just start it for a couple of seconds. Running pig rich for a few seconds isn't going to blow you or your car up.

Regardless there are better ways to see what's going on then trying to start the car with that much extra fuel(if it even will)... there are a lot of other factors to take into consideration like start up enrichment etc. I don't think it's the best answer... .

 

[damageinc0318]

I have a 2g 95 tsi. I rebuilt the motor and reinstalled it . I replaced both the ground and positive cables also a new battery. The motor is cranking but its very weak turning over and it stops and starts,cables getting hot. Its almost like its got a really bad ground connection or like a weak battery. But I have hooked up my tahoe to assist the cranking and still nothing. Like alot of other dsmers I have a mountain of parts so I threw on and different starter and same thing. Also the cables are larger than factory so I know im good there . Getting pretty frustrated what else could it be ???/