2G Starter clicking

[Kyky819]

Hey everyone, I’m having an issue where my starter is clicking on my car.
Things I’ve done so far:
Batt12.56v
Starter 12.56v
Relay replaced with jumper
Clutch switch disconnected
Starter bench tested at local auto parts store
Jump started.

so out of all of that the car still just clicks when you turn the key. The battery is relocated to the trunk but I’ve never had this issues before. This all happened after a pretty aggressive boosted launch. Any help or ideas is appreciated. Thank you

 

[Dusty Landrum]

Can you rotate the engine at the crank by hand? I don't see anything in your profile about the car. Is it a manual or automatic?

 

[We're on Boost]

"Relay replaced with jumper" is good but you need to be fussy about the ends you put on your jumper. I don't know how this looks on a 2g but here's a pic of how my bypass wire into the starter relay socket was for a long time. It was ok until it wasn't. I was using a standard quick disconnect male for the end. But it has little tabs that stick out sideways enough to run into the plastic socket housing which prevented full insertion depth. Kinda dumb. Anyway it didn't insert as deep as the relay leg did, and it might not have been as thick either (less grip tension then). So I got rid of that. Actually I got rid of that whole last bit of the stock wiring and made my own wiring all the way to the starter with a new female end where it goes onto the starter, and I tensioned that female end a little tighter with a pliers first. So the old original connector there could have been the problem too.

A few years ago I quit using the "Start" function in the ignition switch because it seemed like the problem at the time. Replaced that with a 50 amp momentary push button switch.

So now my entire "small wire" circuit from the battery to the starter is new non-OEM stuff. Have an inline fuse right off the battery terminal going to this circuit which is made with 10 gauge wire. My starter troubles have almost always been with this "small wire" circuit. Hardly ever has it been one of the big wires.

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[Kyky819]

Yes the engine runs fine when I push start it. It’s a manual also.
So far I’m getting 12.56ish volts at the battery and at the starter. When cranking voltage will drop at the starter to around 10.5ish. The relay was only taken out to verify that wasn’t the issue. I think I just need a new starter. I’ve heard of starters bench testing okay but won’t work in the car. Everything ive tried or Diagnosed says the electrical is fine.

Okay so I’ll check the switched 12v on the solenoid tomorrow. If that come back good at 12v while cranking idk what else to look for other then just replacing the starter

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

The battery sounds like it is a little tired too.

 

[AWD-Tony]

If the cold cranking amps are low, it doesn’t have the power to turn the engine even though the voltage seems good. Have your battery tested.

Also when you say clicking, is it one click or continuous clicks. And is the clicking from the actual starter or relay?

 

[Kyky819]

I put the battery in another car last night just to see if it would start and it fired up no problem. The clicking is coming from the actual starter solenoid. It’s doing the multiple clicks like I have a dead battery but there’s plenty of power going to the starter. I’ve also tried a second known good battery with no luck.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Here is a TEST.........install the starter on the car. Put a jumper wire on the small terminal with a wire long enough to get to the battery, it can be ANY wire, just long enough to get to the positive terminal. Touch the wire to the + terminal and see if the starter works.....
DISCLAIMER - MAKE SURE THE CAR IS IN NEUTRAL OR ON STANDS SO IT DOESN'T START AND RUN AWAY.
If the starter works that way, then you have wiring issues in the car and it isn't getting the proper signal to the solenoid. If it acts the same, then check your GROUND wire to the starter bolt and make sure it is tight but other than that, it will point back to the starter/solenoid itself as being the culprit here.

 

[Kyky819]

Here is a TEST.........install the starter on the car. Put a jumper wire on the small terminal with a wire long enough to get to the battery, it can be ANY wire, just long enough to get to the positive terminal. Touch the wire to the + terminal and see if the starter works.....
DISCLAIMER - MAKE SURE THE CAR IS IN NEUTRAL OR ON STANDS SO IT DOESN'T START AND RUN AWAY.
If the starter works that way, then you have wiring issues in the car and it isn't getting the proper signal to the solenoid. If it acts the same, then check your GROUND wire to the starter bolt and make sure it is tight but other than that, it will point back to the starter/solenoid itself as being the culprit here.

This was my thought last night... thank you for letting me know I was looking in the right direction!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

No problem. The ground is a very important component so make sure that it is attached to the starter bolt TIGHT.

 

[Kyky819]

When I pulled the starter it all looked okay. I’ll look at it again and clean up grounds as I find them

 

[We're on Boost]

Here is a TEST.........install the starter on the car. Put a jumper wire on the small terminal with a wire long enough to get to the battery, it can be ANY wire, just long enough to get to the positive terminal. Touch the wire to the + terminal and see if the starter works.....
DISCLAIMER - MAKE SURE THE CAR IS IN NEUTRAL OR ON STANDS SO IT DOESN'T START AND RUN AWAY.
If the starter works that way, then you have wiring issues in the car and it isn't getting the proper signal to the solenoid. If it acts the same, then check your GROUND wire to the starter bolt and make sure it is tight but other than that, it will point back to the starter/solenoid itself as being the culprit here.

Yes, this is how I knew my solenoid was ok, and that the problem was in the wiring of the "small wire" circuit going to the solenoid, the circuit that energizes the pull-in and hold-in windings in the solenoid. On the jumper it cranked just fine, even with the lights on.
Mine was clicking, like yours. In logs where I have logged actual good cranking I see 10.3 to 10.6 volts for "battery" in the log during the crank. I have a small Miata battery so there's not a ton of oomph there. But it works when the wiring is good.

 

[Kyky819]

Okay so I ran the new temp wire from the solenoid straight to the battery and I’m getting one distinct click. If I hook the ignition back up I get multiple clicks(dead battery clicks) shouldn’t it do the same regardless?

 

[Kyky819]

Aright sorry to blow this up but I think I found the issue... I pulled the starter and bench tested at home. The gear will pop out but won’t spin at all so I’m thinking the starter is bad. Before I go get another one anyone have other thoughts?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yes. This is pointing to a starter issue.
Here is how I bench test any starter.
Remove it and lay it on the ground. When it DOES work, it will torque clockwise pretty good (Small Block Chevy starters sure do). Put jumper cables on the battery and on the other end, clamp the ground to the starter body and put the red positive onto the big lug on the solenoid. Use that jumper wire and HOLD ONTO THE STARTER TIGHT, and touch the wire to the big lug. The starter, if it really is good, will engage and spin so be ready for that. If it still just clicks, the brushes are shot in the commutator end of the starter. Replace them or replace the starter. I don't even know if we can get brushes for starters anymore but I used to rebuild them all the time WAY BACK WHEN.
Report back please.
Marty

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Aright sorry to blow this up but I think I found the issue... I pulled the starter and bench tested at home. The gear will pop out but won’t spin at all so I’m thinking the starter is bad. Before I go get another one anyone have other thoughts?

Sorry i was typing up what you did when you replied.
My bad.
Repair or replace the starter and you are back on the road.
The brushes are wore out normally when that happens.

 

[Kyky819]

Sorry i was typing up what you did when you replied.
My bad.

No worries! Thanks so much for the help. I’m glad it’s going to be an easy fix

Okay one last thing. I have a 95 with a 6 bolt swap so would I use a 90 starter or are the 6 and 7 bolts interchangeable

 

[Vegas Smith]

Maybe the best purchase I ever made was a new Bosch starter. Fires up every time. My new autozone cheapo haunted me for years because I always assumed it wasn't the problem because it was brand new. That POS caused me so much anxiety. Would just click and click. Took 30 tries to startup most days. Good news is I became an expert in electronics and the starter system to fix it!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Starter needs to match the motor.

 

[We're on Boost]

Maybe the best purchase I ever made was a new Bosch starter. Fires up every time. My new autozone cheapo haunted me for years because I always assumed it wasn't the problem because it was brand new. That POS caused me so much anxiety. Would just click and click. Took 30 tries to startup most days. Good news is I became an expert in electronics and the starter system to fix it!

I'm a fan of the Bosch "100% New" starter too, but it looks to me like they are not available anymore for our cars. The SR298N.
Rock Auto shows a variety of "New" starters for around $90 and they don't put a core charge on them.
WAI Global, BBB, ACDelco Gold, and a few others. Have no idea if they are good. But I noticed that the pictures they show for the ACDelco Gold are identical to the Autozone Duralast Gold.
I have a BBB starter in my 1994 Jeep and it has been good so far. Bought it from NAPA in 2014 when the NAPA New Electrical (NNE) starter part numbers were made by BBB. Up until a few months ago the NAPA NNE starters made for our DSMs were also made by BBB. Strangely they are not available from NAPA anymore, but Rock Auto still shows them as available.

 

[Kyky819]

Okay all I think I’m heading in the right direction… put a new batter and and brand new starter in. Hooked it all up and low and behold it just clicks… so, I removed the run to the back of the car so it’s only the stock harness having power and nothing. I then pulled the starter again to bench test again and it worked great. Put the starter back in and hooked up all the wiring the same way and didn’t work, until I ground out my jumper cables on the engine it’s self, then it turned over! So I’m guessing my starter ground to engine is bad and/or I need to add another ground to engine. What do you guys think??

 

[We're on Boost]

Okay all I think I’m heading in the right direction… put a new batter and and brand new starter in. Hooked it all up and low and behold it just clicks… so, I removed the run to the back of the car so it’s only the stock harness having power and nothing. I then pulled the starter again to bench test again and it worked great. Put the starter back in and hooked up all the wiring the same way and didn’t work, until I ground out my jumper cables on the engine it’s self, then it turned over! So I’m guessing my starter ground to engine is bad and/or I need to add another ground to engine. What do you guys think??

Your existing ground to engine probably goes to one of the starter bolts, right?
One good thing to do is replace that starter bolt with a new one, because they get corroded on the surface. A zinc plated one like the OEM bolt is. Don't use black oxide coated bolts because they corrode easier, and oxides are pretty much non-conductors!
I like redundancy so I made up a second cable for negative post to the other starter bolt. So I have a ground cable to each starter bolt now, and both starter bolts are new.
The ground cable itself could be not good (corrosion on the ends) or the clamp on the cable that clamps to the neg battery post might be not so good.
Or it might be as simple as using one of those round wire brushes that are made for cleaning battery terminals and clamps, but I imagine you've done that already.
The clamp I'm using on my neg battery post has 4 quarter inch bolts for connecting cables. So I can have 4 ground cables, each with their own path to the neg battery post.
Some of the parts store battery clamps are painted. Yeeesh what a bad idea. Don't use any of those.

 

[Kyky819]

Okay so the way it’s done right now is the battery is in the trunk. I have one hot that runs from battery to starter, 2 battery grounds under the back seat and I could only find one engine ground off the intake to firewall. I think I need one from the NEG on the batt to the engine somewhere

 

[We're on Boost]

Okay so the way it’s done right now is the battery is in the trunk. I have one hot that runs from battery to starter, 2 battery grounds under the back seat and I could only find one engine ground off the intake to firewall. I think I need one from the NEG on the batt to the engine somewhere

Oh yeah, if the only ground wire to the engine is that wire that goes from the intake manifold to the firewall, that is not enough.
You need one ground wire 4 awg or larger from a starter bolt to either the chassis/body or else all the way back to the battery.
I haven't done a rear mounted battery yet and I don't know where people are running this ground wire to. I would think you could run it from a starter bolt to one of the threaded fittings on the firewall. Most of those threaded fittings are for 6mm bolts which is barely big enough. I think someone in here could tell you where would be a good place to run that one so you wouldn't have to go all the way to the battery with it. If you had a 4 gauge battery cable going to each starter bolt and take each one to a different attach point somewhere on the chassis/body, that should be pretty good I would think.
If the runs are short, like 2 or 3 feet, 4 gauge should be ok. If you run it back all the way to the battery it probably needs to be bigger than 4 gauge. So that gets to be a pain.
BTW, a change in wire gauge number of 3 is a doubling of the cross-sectional area of the wire. In other words, two runs of 4 gauge in parallel with each other equals one run of 1 gauge wire over the same distance, for conductivity, or resistance.

 

[Kyky819]

Hey everyone! Just wanted to let you guys know I ran a 2 gauge ground from the upper starter bolt, cleaned everything up with new connectors and she fires up like a dream!! Thank you all for helping me figure out this incredibly annoying issue!!!