Start but then shuts off after 10 mins

[Lightnintko]

Hello, I have done LOTS of research and keep coming to an end. My scenario feels a bit different that any other. Please input only if you have something helpful as I notice there a lot is people out there trolling. If you have nothing helpful, please just move on. Otherwise Thanks in advise for those who try to help!!! I appreciate it

99 Gst with rebuild head due to broken t-belt(machining done by performance shop)
Changed with all oem parts double and triple checked everything. No steps skipped.

First time I fired it up, it ran for about 30 mins or a little more. Then came to a soft stop while idling.
Things checked:
Fuel
-Pulled line from fuel rail and filled empty bottle by cranking over engine. Plenty of clean fuel
Spark
-Checked for spark by using a spare spark plug plugged into wire and grounded threads. Cranked over engine, no spark in any of the cylinders
-First thing I suspected was the power transistor module. I replaced with new one and no luck.
I checked coil and wires with ohmmeter and they check out good.
-I disconnected the vaccum line from Fuel rail to check for vapor lock. No luck

Since then, I have noticed a pattern:

It will always fire up if left overnight. It will fire up on the second try, then idle for 10-15 mins engine sounds nice and sound when on, then come to a soft stop everytime. After the stop, it will only crank over but it won’t turn on. I am lost in thing one. I have yet to check the Crank position and cam angle sensor, but I am confused on why it does fire up if left sitting overnight.
It is a very consistent pattern. Any input? Thanks!

 

[callmesaj]

sound like maybe you have a bad coil pack. you have narrowed the issue obviously down to spark so you have to follow that trail. coil, wires, plugs, ecu has to be one of those, but what your saying is similar to what i experienced on one of my hondas a while ago. turned out to be the coil in my dizzy.

 

[Lightnintko]

Would a bad coil pack still run sometimes though?? That's the part that has me confused

Bump

 

[callmesaj]

yes it would its heat and moisture that causes the coil pack to fail

 

[miliman13]

Another possibility, it could also be your CAS, I had the same symptoms and when I switched out my CAS it stopped.

 

[Lightnintko]

Ok. I will check both today. A mechanic friend did try to only change the belt when the timing belt broke to see if it would run again. I knew it wouldn't but i had him try anyway before i decided to do the head myself. But when I got the car back he had switched the spark plug wires between cylinders two and three so maybe he blew that coil. And the head was rebuilt, so maybe the CAS got washed with it or something. I will do farther checks today and post results

 

[Lightnintko]

After further testing, i tested the cas & cps for signal voltage & the cps tested bad. It only read .03 volts consistantly when cranking. I replaced the cps (pain in the neck) and Still NO LUCK!!!! This is not getting any better. My next tought is ecu??? It doesn't make sense why it would just choose to go out when there was nothing wr with it though... I am defeated. Any toughts?

 

[Phantom DSM]

I did not notice this thread a few days ago. I have fixed this symptom in other cars coming to the shop with same issue. Usually if its starts after left overnight when its cold, but has trouble restarting once its warm..its usually a crank position sensor. I would have suggested that, but im very surprised a new one did not fix issue. Are you sure it was installed correctly ? Can you obtain any Cel codes being registered after long cranking?

 

[Painhour]

sometimes when the cas gets hot it will stop function, Also coil packs can read fine when they are cold but once the engine temp has warmed the pack it will cause a crack in the "housing" and cause it to completely stop working or misfire so bad the vehicle will not work

 

[Lightnintko]

I did not notice this thread a few days ago. I have fixed this symptom in other cars coming to the shop with same issue. Usually if its starts after left overnight when its cold, but has trouble restarting once its warm..its usually a crank position sensor. I would have suggested that, but im very surprised a new one did not fix issue. Are you sure it was installed correctly ? Can you obtain any Cel codes being registered after long cranking?

Yeah, i when I checked the voltage on the cps it did not show jumping voltage like it's supposed to. I was so sure i had pinpointed the problem. I replaced it, correctly snnaped the clips in the holes and tucked the wire carefully. Put everything back together. This time though it didn't even fire up when cold
I checked ecu, it looks fine visually.
I read somewhere that one one time the cps being bad cause a new power transistor to go bad. Anyone heard of this???
About the cas, i checked voltage and it varied from .05-5v like it's supposed to...
I checked The coil electrical conector with a light and it did not show any power even making it there so i do'nt think it's the coil

 

[luv2rallye]

A bad cps can never cause a power transistor to go bad. If someone reported that, it was pure coincidence or an incorrect conclusion.

I suggest checking for a slow leaking fuel pressure regulator (or just replace it as they aren't expensive). Check your fuel pressure at the rail after it stops - if very low, that's your problem (bad fp [perhaps leaky check valve in it], leaky fpr, or clogged fuel filter).

 

[Lightnintko]

I tried starter fluid in the tb anc that did'nt help. I donk think it's fuel related because of that & the bottle test. maybe my car is just doomed

 

[Dsmkauai]

I say look at the cam and crank sensors! I had similar problems years back and it ended up being the crank sensors wires got all chewed up and therefore no signal was getting thru. The car would run when cold go a bit then die and almost wanna start but wouldn't. Then if you wait till its cooled off it runs again for a bit then dies! Sound about right?

 

[Lightnintko]

I'm going to re-check. I changed them already, but all i can do is re-test.

 

[Seamus]

Since you have no spark at all, I would ignore people who are suggesting coils and things like that. Forums can be a great place to solve problems, but remover, anyone can post anything. which is a problem in itself. You need to be looking at power transistor back to ecu. I've would look at the ecu first as I have had similar symptoms with the car running fine for 10 minutes after sitting. Check everything from a visual inspection, diagnostics, all the way to making sure the ecu is bolted in properly.

 

[Lightnintko]

One consistant thing changed. It would always start if left overnight, since I changed the cps, now it won't ever start. Hmmmm, something didn't like the new cps. Testing transistor today. Although it's new

 

[Dsmkauai]

Your ecu or wiring!

 

[silvreclips]

I have seen this same issue and it turned out to be the ECU. I would see about trying a different one and see if that fixes it.

 

[JMAR]

Did you change your alternator? I had similar issue... also battery.. oh or could be the fuse.. it controls that function... its one of the bigger ones... it could be busted or burning out as every time you start it gets worse... just couple things I did when I had that problem.

 

[Lightnintko]

Obviously some just throwing some input in there to become proven members.... I did that too...

Anyway, I probe tested out the Crank Position Sensor's Signal wire (blue) while cranking the engine

NO VOLTAGE AT ALL!
-The old one only had .3 voltage, which means it was half failing and explains the starting in the morning sympom.
- the new one, has ZERO voltage signal.... which explains the no starting ever!!
STUPID AUTOZONE, SOLD ME A BAD CRANK SENSOR...
Now I have to take of the timing belt covers for the freaking 3rd time...

BTW I bench tested the power transistor, checks out good. (if you guys ever test one make sure you're not reading it backwards... Here is something that helped me:
Stock (2g) 8 pin connector wire colors:
pin 1: blue-black (output to fire cyl 2,3 coil's primary)
pin 2: brown-red (input from ECU to fire cyl 2,3)
pin 3: black (ground)
pin 4: white (tach output to ECU and gauge)
pin 5: unused
pin 6: larger black-white (+12V from ignition switch)
pin 7: black-blue (input from ECU to fire cyl 1,4)
pin 8: black-white (output to fire cyl 1,4 coil's primary but leaves coil as blue-red going to single pin "engine speed detection connector", then from there to pin 8 here as black-white)

Thank to James Sellers From Dsm Tuners Facebook If you're on here let me know who you are


UPDATE-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, I do know my problem is coming from the cps signal because I probe tested it and I got NO SIGNAL WHILE CRANKING...

Does anyone know of a way to test the Crank Sensor on the Bench???
I have a theory:

If I feed voltage from a 12v battery to it (using small alligator clips), I should be able to get signal from the cps by swiping a piece of metal between the gap where the magnetic part of the sensor is (this is where the crank blades usually passes through)

So I went ahead and tried it with plenty of alligator clips, a 12v and a voltmeter.. As expected, I could not get read any sort voltage at all while swiping the metal. I was able to provide & read 12v to the red wire, but got no reading from the signal...
Does any one know if this would be an accurate test??
It makes sense to me!

I went and exchanged the part and they gave me a new one.
I tried testing it on the bench and no voltage. I have a hunch that autozone is selling faulty crank sensors...

What you guys think??

also, I tested original cps (the one that would only let car turn on in the morning) and I got the same reading as I got in the car.
With 12v supply, I get .02 volts from the signal, If I swipe metal, signal drops to .00
At least this one is giving me some sort of reading.. it's oem...

 

[rocker_topper]

Obviously some just throwing some input in there to become proven members.... I did that too...

Anyway, I probe tested out the Crank Position Sensor's Signal wire (blue) while cranking the engine

NO VOLTAGE AT ALL!
-The old one only had .3 voltage, which means it was half failing and explains the starting in the morning sympom.
- the new one, has ZERO voltage signal.... which explains the no starting ever!!
STUPID AUTOZONE, SOLD ME A BAD CRANK SENSOR...
Now I have to take of the timing belt covers for the freaking 3rd time...

BTW I bench tested the power transistor, checks out good. (if you guys ever test one make sure you're not reading it backwards... Here is something that helped me:
Stock (2g) 8 pin connector wire colors:
pin 1: blue-black (output to fire cyl 2,3 coil's primary)
pin 2: brown-red (input from ECU to fire cyl 2,3)
pin 3: black (ground)
pin 4: white (tach output to ECU and gauge)
pin 5: unused
pin 6: larger black-white (+12V from ignition switch)
pin 7: black-blue (input from ECU to fire cyl 1,4)
pin 8: black-white (output to fire cyl 1,4 coil's primary but leaves coil as blue-red going to single pin "engine speed detection connector", then from there to pin 8 here as black-white)

Thank to James Sellers From Dsm Tuners Facebook If you're on here let me know who you are


UPDATE-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, I do know my problem is coming from the cps signal because I probe tested it and I got NO SIGNAL WHILE CRANKING...

Does anyone know of a way to test the Crank Sensor on the Bench???
I have a theory:

If I feed voltage from a 12v battery to it (using small alligator clips), I should be able to get signal from the cps by swiping a piece of metal between the gap where the magnetic part of the sensor is (this is where the crank blades usually passes through)

So I went ahead and tried it with plenty of alligator clips, a 12v and a voltmeter.. As expected, I could not get read any sort voltage at all while swiping the metal. I was able to provide & read 12v to the red wire, but got no reading from the signal...
Does any one know if this would be an accurate test??
It makes sense to me!

I went and exchanged the part and they gave me a new one.
I tried testing it on the bench and no voltage. I have a hunch that autozone is selling faulty crank sensors...

What you guys think??

also, I tested original cps (the one that would only let car turn on in the morning) and I got the same reading as I got in the car.
With 12v supply, I get .02 volts from the signal, If I swipe metal, signal drops to .00
At least this one is giving me some sort of reading.. it's oem...

Right here buddy. Glad the info helped. You still dont got her firing though?

 

[Lightnintko]

update

it was the crank sensor!!
First time i changed it, i put it on backwards
It's really easy to miss if you have never done it before. I feel very stupid, but all in all, i have learned a lot.

DONT PUT THE CRANK SENSOR BACKWARDS NEWBIES!!!



Now... Onto cosmetic problems

 

[Phantom DSM]

Glad you got it worked out bro. You were onright track with diagnosis of a failing cps. Little mishap makes it a pain sometimes. Btw autozone does sometimes have crappy cps..i usually go with oem, parts store is hit and miss.

 

[Lightnintko]

Since I saw some post of other dummies doing the same mistake I did, and knowing this was a mistake any newbie can make, here is how to place the cps
the right way!!

Make sure you turn the crankshaft by hand and the sensing blade goes in the cps slot
The magnet will then generate the voltage correctly and let the CPU know when to fire the plugs & injectors!

 

[cdubb79]

Since I saw some post of other dummies doing the same mistake I did, and knowing this was a mistake any newbie can make, here is how to place the cps
the right way!!

Make sure you turn the crankshaft by hand and the sensing blade goes in the cps slot
The magnet will then generate the voltage correctly and let the CPU know when to fire the plugs & injectors!

Can anyone add which way the striker/trigger/sensor wheel goes on. I'm having this same issue, but it's possible I put the sensor wheel on backwards. Chilton manual didn't say which way to put it on. My voltage output signals reads from 0.4 - 4 volts. My car is firing. I have spark and fuel, but it won't run. I am getting a P0335 code two times. I've rebuilt the top of this engine completely. This is a brand new sensor wheel and cps. I'm at the very end here. It's a 1998 Spyder GST.