"Spec" clutches?

[larsrya8]

RavenX - Does your hybrid clutch setup still exhibit the "on/off switch" feel that some noted with their Stage 3 6-puck setups? Or does it have a smoother engagement with the ACT pressure plate? I look forward to finding out how much power your hybrid setup will hold.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Well, based off of the large amount of negative reviews and the lack of applicable positive reviews, I have decided to go with an ACT 2600 as my clutch. I probably won't buy it for some time, as the stocker hasn't started slipping yet. Those Spec users that can answer my question from my first post (#103), please feel free to respond. But, as you can see from my duel with PieEyedPiper, I'm a tad specific in what kind of information I'm looking for. However, my original question pretty much implies who I'm looking for responds from. Autocrossers and quarter-milers, speak up with a review of your Spec clutch if you haven't already.

PieEyedPiper - a long PM has been sent.

Touché sir. You should've done the same.

Just for clarification, who posted bad experiences with the Stage 2+?
I'd like to read them.

 

[larsrya8]

Just for clarification, who posted bad experiences with the Stage 2+?
I'd like to read them.

You are the only person in this thread to recently post about your experience with a Stage 2+. Read my previous posts to see how applicable I feel your experiences are to helping decide whether the Spec Stage 2, 2+ or 3 are able to compete with the ACT 2600. Martin from TheSpeedFactor claims that the Stage 2 is close to the ACT 2600, so with the 2+ and 3 having higher torque ratings, should perform even better than the 2600.

The negative reviews have been for the Stage 2 and the Stage 3. The only difference between the Stage 2 and the Stage 2+ is the friction surface. The Stage 2 uses a Kevlar disc, while the Stage 2+ uses a "carbon Kevlar" material. It clearly states on their site that it maintains the Stage 2 "feel", so there probably haven't been any major modifications to the pressure plate. Calling Spec would definitely answer that question, but today is Sunday so I can't do that.

RavenX has determined the likely cause for the slipping; the "stock like" pressure plate. This can be deduced by the fact that his clutch disc showed no signs of wear and tear even after 2000 miles, but it still slipped. Most slipping clutches have a horrible looking clutch disc that shows large amounts of wear. His does not, so it must be that the disc isn't being held against the friction surface with enough clamping force. After replacing the Spec pressure plate with the ACT 2600 pressure plate, his slipping problems have gone away. Do you need more proof? More would be nice, but most of the negative reviewers have just gone back to ACT, so finding someone else willing to make a hybrid might be difficult.

So, the Stage 2 and the Stage 3 are rated slightly lower and slightly higher than the Stage 2+, respectively. If both have reported slipping issues despite not being maxed out, it is very safe to assume that the Stage 2+ will have these issues as well.

I'm getting an ACT 2600 because it is tried and true. I only expressed interest in the Stage 2+ because it has the same torque rating as the 2600 while having less pedal pressure (which may or may not help prevent crankwalk, but definitely makes stop-and-go traffic that much more tolerable). The number of people running Spec clutches is fairly small, and the number of people dissatisfied with their Spec clutch is rather high in comparison. Several individuals on the DSMLink forums have also mentioned problems with Spec clutches slipping when they shouldn't be.

It is this evidence that has resulted in me deciding that an ACT 2600 would be a better choice than a Spec clutch. When my ACT dies, I will re-research Spec clutches to see if this issue has been resolved, and I might give them a shot then. Being a college student, I don't have enough money to spend on experimentation.

*Note* Once again, I don't want to discourage those that have had a positive experience subjecting their Spec clutch to the abuse an ACT 2600 has survived to post (whew, a mouthful). It would be unfair to end this thread with a bunch of negative Spec feedback if there are people who have had good experiences. In order to give Spec a fair case, let us know how your clutch is holding up. Still, if you have a negative experience please post as well.

 

[ICGerms]

It might also be interesting/helpful to state what height that everyone's flywheel was stepped to. There may be a correlation between slipping/grabbing SPEC clutches and flywheel step height.

 

[larsrya8]

It might also be interesting/helpful to state what height that everyone's flywheel was stepped to. There may be a correlation between slipping/grabbing SPEC clutches and flywheel step height.

As far as I can tell, the Spec clutches use the same flywheel step as an ACT clutch does. This information comes from post number 22. Was everyone running that height (.610)? It is probably safe to assume that the ACT and the Spec flywheels mentioned earlier were at .610, but it is still a good idea to check.

 

[RavenX]

To answer your question no mine doesn't have the on/off switch that everyone is talking about with the spec clutches. Even when i had the spec pressure plate i could still slip the clutch although not as much as with say a act street disc. It engages pretty smooth as well. It only bucked when it was being broken in but other than that you can't tell i have a 6 puck disc in there besides the clutch pedal pressure which is a little harder than stock. As for the flywheel step height i had my act xact flywheel re-surfaced when i installed the spec clutch to .610 because thats what they recommended. Since i replaced the pressure plate with the act there was no need to re-surface the clutch yet again after what happened. Although i had to "break" it in per say. But everything is fine now. I made a thread 1-2 months back where i posted the measurements from the act street disc, act 2600 pressure plate, spec 6 puck disc, and the spec pressure plate. The measurements were pretty much dead on hence why i went ahead and made this hybrid. As long as everything is the same or close to it you can do any kind of hybrid clutch setup you want.

 

[92tealTSI]

Thank you for the review. I'm not surprised about needing to let the clutch cool off between passes. Can you be more specific about "launching with boost can sometimes be a problem"? How much boost? I thought most AWD drag cars looked forward to using some sort of stutter-box to help build boost at the line; would a Stage 3 be able to handle that? Overall, would you say you were satisfied with your Spec clutch?

Sure, id be glad to elaborate on that. I run DSMLink and have the studderbox set to 4750 rpm, which will build about 14psi off the line. I also do a slight "burnout" before my runs to clean the tires off. Of course it isnt much of a burnout but the car will get a little sideways and ive found it will lower my sixty foots by about a tenth or so. I can do about 6 launches within an hour or so but then I let it cool down for an hour so avoid the slippage. If I dont slip-dump the clutch correctly however, then the clutch WILL slip. So in answer to you question, yes it will hold it, but Im not sure how bad im tearing up the clutch while doing it. I suppose im satisfied with it, but I was hoping I wouldnt have to deal with the slippage. Ill be replacing it with a 2900 most likely, or maybe a stage 5 spec. I havent heard the TOB style noise people are complaining of, but that might be cause im using a new clutch fork and all that.

 

[RavenX]

Personally i wouldn't use their TOB even if they paid me. It may be "redesigned" but id rather use a OEM TOB any day.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Lars, are you taking any writing classes or anything? Man, you just go off sometimes!
I didnt know of any SPEC 2+ failures or bad experiences either. I just wanted to double check.

I just thought I'd add that it's possible some of these failures are not related to the design of the clutch?
I've only counted 3 or so slipping spec clutches, but like mentioned above, step height could be a major factor and so could the flywheel being cut with runout. That would definitely cause some issues.

I realize it's hard to imagine a clutch that is supposed to be x amount strong but has a x amount lighter pressure plate than the ACT. Obviously the friction surface is fairly advanced and would be capable of holding on to that 400ft/lbs. How else would they come to that number, how elese would they carry on producing and selling a clutch if they mostly failed and or slipped.
My theory is that the design is newer than ACT in the sense that you want to work smarter, not harder (pp pressure vs. friction surface). And that if all these many failures/slippage is happening then it's not due to the clutch itself but possibley the install, the driver, the break-in, the hydraulic system, runout, improper step height, etc etc.

I've read such a small number of cases where something bad has happned to a SPEC clutch. And I've read the same if not more similar (slipping) problems for ACT clutches.
Which brings to point that maybe there shouldnt be so many bad reviews of SPEC clutches considering the small nmber of us who use them - especially compared to ACT.

Taking the example of buddy who switched pp's and got a good working combo, would it not stand to reason that if the friction surface was unscathed that the problem may not be too light of pedal (pp) presure? Maybe a hydraulic issue of somekind? I just doutb Spec clutches are designed in such a way to let the light pedal (pp) pressure be a failing. It's even possible that the heavier pp's of the ACT clutches mask these same outside influences that could *possibley* be causing the SPEC failures.

I would rather see us determine there are no outside influences causing these failures/slippage than to jump to conclusions that SPEC is of poor design or manufacturing.

btw, ACT makes good clutches
I don't want people to think I'm biased.

 

[dave99gst]

You may want to read the ACT clutch failure thread -
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133330&highlight=act+failure

 

[larsrya8]

You may want to read the ACT clutch failure thread -
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133330&highlight=act+failure

I thought the ACT failures were caused by the springs popping out of the disc (as opposed to slipping)? Or maybe this is supposed to make me question my decision to go with ACT. I also saw some pictures of shattered flywheels and discs that became two seperate parts. I'm going to have a shop install the clutch (because I really don't want to do it) so if it fails right away I can have them take care of replacing it. Of course, I'll make sure they will replace it before having the work done, blah blah blah.

So... are you telling me I should make a hybrid like RavenX did? Because while glancing through that thread I didn't see any problems mentioned with the ACT pressure plate, just the disc. Likewise, I see problems mentioned with the Spec pressure plate, but not the Spec disc.

 

[james13]

well my spec flywheel finally failed.....and the car will not start i will let you guys know what the clutch looks like when i have the tranny dropped.


-james

 

[92tealTSI]

Personally i wouldn't use their TOB even if they paid me. It may be "redesigned" but id rather use a OEM TOB any day.

The one I got with my spec was identical to an OEM TOB. I sat there and compared the two for a good 10 minutes and they were identical

 

[RavenX]

The ACT clutch failure was due to the street disc having 5 springs only. They since have re-designed it to have 6 springs. I have a old version of the street disc which is what i broke and a newer style one here brand new. Lars if your going full act then all you have to do is make sure the street disc is the newer style one which it should be anyway. Am not taking anything away from Spec but they really need to check their pressure plates. Heres a comparison of the pressure plates bad pics but just look at the fingers on the pp's.

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[PieEyedPiper]

The ACT clutch failure was due to the street disc having 5 springs only. They since have re-designed it to have 6 springs. I have a old version of the street disc which is what i broke and a newer style one here brand new. Lars if your going full act then all you have to do is make sure the street disc is the newer style one which it should be anyway. Am not taking anything away from Spec but they really need to check their pressure plates. Heres a comparison of the pressure plates bad pics but just look at the fingers on the pp's.

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Whats wrong with the fingers exactly? They just look like fingers to me!

 

[RavenX]

Whats wrong with the fingers exactly? They just look like fingers to me!

The thickness of the fingers is what i was trying to show. As you can see that determines the clamping force. Considering the Spec 3 is supposed to have 2600 like clamping force you can see from the pics that the Act 2600pp has more thickness on the fingers than the Spec pressure plate hence why people experience slipping.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Maybe its the picture, but if I had to decide which one had the thicker fingers I would have chosen the SPEC.

 

[pneumo]

Maybe its the picture, but if I had to decide which one had the thicker fingers I would have chosen the SPEC.

That's a valid opinion considering the pics aren't the best, but you should know that the ACT 2600 has thicker fingers than the spec clutch. I'm not talking about the width.

I have a spec stage 3 clutch in my Talon, I also have an ACT2100 in my Laser, plus my last clutch was an ACT2600. The spec 3 has the lightest pedal pressure of them all, the 2100 is slightly firmer, and the 2600 is much firmer. It's no coincidence that the thickness of the fingers is related to pedal pressure and clamping force.

 

[RavenX]

Yeah sorry about the bad pics. I actually had taken measurements of the fingers on both the spec and act pp but i can't find those pics. But they do look misleading. But if you have seen both in person right off the bat you will see the act has better clamping force. A good comparison is taking a 2100pp and comparing that to the spec pp.

 

[93jdmlaser]

So does Spec or anyone else out there have anything that is decent to drive on the street like a 2900 with a street disc. I dont like that act fails but I cant find anything better. I will need something that will have to hold more then 415 torque. Last clutch was a clutch master twin disc. Grabbed strong but would never wanna drive one on the street again. Going back to a stock flywheel and need somethin like a 2900 with street disc is there any other options?

 

[RavenX]

So does Spec or anyone else out there have anything that is decent to drive on the street like a 2900 with a street disc. I dont like that act fails but I cant find anything better. I will need something that will have to hold more then 415 torque. Last clutch was a clutch master twin disc. Grabbed strong but would never wanna drive one on the street again. Going back to a stock flywheel and need somethin like a 2900 with street disc is there any other options?

You can look at the Spec stage 4 or 5. However you can always make a Hybrid like i did and use the act 2900pp with the spec stage 4 or 5 clutch disc.

 

[james13]

well took out the clutch today......the disk was worn down to where the pads needed to be resurfaced and the pressure plate was warped.


hoooray!


so i guess i will see how SBR does with their clutch.

 

[UltraRev]

we have them in stock www.ultrarev.com

 

[fiveSFE]

i just ordered a spec stage 3 today from titan motorports along with a fidanza flywheel, they have some good prices, 491 shipped for both. Right now i am running a spec stage 2, anyways right now i have a 50 trim with all supporting mods, i have ran this setup wit 100ll and 25psi more than a few times on the weekend, i dont launch my car that much, i will say ive put around 30 or so hard launches on this clutch and it holds great, up untill a few weeks ago.

the owner before had put this clutch in, so im not exactly sure how many miles are on it, but i have put around 4500 miles on it, im sure that there is around 10k on this clutch. I would definatly recommend this clutch for any 16g powered car, it is very streetable, it chadders a lil bit but thats jsut how it goes with a kevlar clutch. i would definatly recommend spec to anyone. and i will post up a review when my stage 3 gets here and i will post up some pics of my stage 2 when it comes out.

 

[larsrya8]

Right now i am running a spec stage 2, anyways right now i have a 50 trim with all supporting mods, i have ran this setup wit 100ll and 25psi more than a few times on the weekend, i dont launch my car that much, i will say ive put around 30 or so hard launches on this clutch and it holds great, up untill a few weeks ago.

and i will post up a review when my stage 3 gets here and i will post up some pics of my stage 2 when it comes out.

What kind of track times did you run with the Stage 2? 60ft times?