South Bend Clutch Users Questionairre- looking for updates on everyone's setups!

[NB4G63T]

I've ran a few of Tim's SBC clutches and really have nothing bad to say. My first was the SS-PP with TZ/FE disc setup and this was a great clutch, I just over powered it but it would shift at high RPM easily as have all my SBC clutches actually. After this clutch I choose to go with a race QM twin disc that I found for a great deal, worst decision ever, I didn't have a good experience with it and I'll leave it at that. My next SBC was the one I have now which is a SS-X with the full ceramic disc and let me tell you I ******* love this clutch so far. I've only got one summer on it and never had the car on high boost but I'm confident it will hold my power. What I did experience was shifts in the 9500-10000 range with NO issue at all. Here's a quick video with my first SBC clutch (SS-PP TZ/FE) My current one shifts as well.

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*Specific model used
---Pressure plate type: SS-X

---Disk type: B-Series full Ceramic

---*Specific model flywheel used: Competition Clutch Street Chromoly


*Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch: 1000miles

*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available: Haven't put the car on kill yet or been to the track yet, this summer.

*Usage Type:
Street/Strip and
Weekend Warrior Abuse

*Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose: Love it, I'd buy the same clutch again in a heart beat.

 

[doubleclutch]

The SSX plate will hold more power and still have a light petal feel. Yes the organic disk is what I meant. I would not use the kevlar as it will glaze over from excessive heat and become useless.
You can use any disk with the ssx plate just ask tim.

I don't want to seem rude, but my understanding is if you overheat a kevlar, you can simply drive it lightly and it will re-bed. If you overheat and organic, it is toast.

Also, I would like my clutch to be my fuse. I don't expect to make more than 400 ft/lbs on my 16g for a long time if ever and don't have any plans to upgrade the turbo. With that being said, the clutch would slip before I nuked driveline parts. As far as I can tell the SS should hold up to 500 ft/lbs and should help save my driveline. I am just not sure if the stress put on the components by the extra clamp force is worth the predicted 50 ft/lb increase in torque capacity.

 

[NB4G63T]

I've re-bedded my organic ACT 2600 way back when. Slipped it at the track with my fp3586 and hoosiers. Then started DD and it was good in a couple weeks.

 

[idkiliketurbos]

*Specific model used
---Pressure plate type:
-->SS-Series
---Disk type:
-->TZ/B-Series Kevlar / Ceramic dual friction
*Specific model flywheel used
-->Stock
*Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch
1 week, 20 miles
*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available
400ish whp
*Usage Type
-->Street/Strip


*Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
-->Would you buy the same one again? So far, absolutely. It is super easy to drive and feels great! Definitely the best feeling aftermarket clutch I've driven before.
-->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)? No, it will work perfectly for my car and feels great.
-->Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time? No, it will work perfectly for my car and feels great.
-->If your clutch wore out, how long did you have it for and mileage before it wore out the actual friction linings as a direct relation to usage, not due to other circumstances like hydraulics, pedal assembly or adjustment issues. N/A

 

[twicks69]

@twicks69
What would you recommend for occasional road course track days and very minimal drag? My max power will most likely be less than 450 ft/lbs and I enjoy puttsing around town. Will the SS - TZ be enough? I read the whole thread and it seems they hold up to ~500 ft/lbs at the crank. Would the life of the SS be less then the same set-up with an SSX?

I was going to go ACT2600 but it sounds crude/barbaric compared to what everyone is saying on here.

Thanks!

I would go with the SS-series pressure plate, a full face Ceramic B-series clutch disk, and a chromoly steel flywheel like a Competition Clutch street flywheel. I don't think the TZ-series Kevlar disk would like you that much being pushed near its limits and heavy spirited driving, resulting in glazing. I'd go to a higher temperature capacity friction material with the benefit of a bit higher torque capacity. I don't think you need the SS-X pressure plate in this application unless you were launching the car on a prepped surface.

If you wanted to risk going with a Kevlar disk, then do a media blasted flywheel with a SS-X pressure plate.

Personally I think having the right disk for the temperatures is a better choice.

Think of it as brake pads, look at it this way for an idea:
*Organic disk is a parts store Duralast
*TZ-Series Kevlar is like an EBC Green
*TZ/B Kevlar/Ceramic is like a Hawk HPS or Wilwood BP-10 or Polymatrix "E"
*B-Series Full Ceramic is like RayBestos ST-42 or Wilwood BP-20 or Polymatrix "P"
*DXD-B Ceramic 6-puck is like a Wilwood BP-30
*DXD-F Feramic 6-puck is like a Wilwood BP-40 or Raybestos ST-43.

These are just to give an idea of what type of range the friction materials are going to work well for a temperature range vs. a wear pattern. A more aggressive material will handle higher temperatures but will also result in a friction surface wear (i.e. cutting rotors with cold high friction coefficient pads but stopping on a dime within its operating range). There are compromises like the TZ/B dual friction disk that keeps the smooth modulation of the Kevlar and the higher torque capacity and temperature range of the Ceramic material.

 

[doubleclutch]

I would go with the SS-series pressure plate, a full face Ceramic B-series clutch disk, and a chromoly steel flywheel like a Competition Clutch street flywheel. I don't think the TZ-series Kevlar disk would like you that much being pushed near its limits and heavy spirited driving, resulting in glazing. I'd go to a higher temperature capacity friction material with the benefit of a bit higher torque capacity. I don't think you need the SS-X pressure plate in this application unless you were launching the car on a prepped surface.

If you wanted to risk going with a Kevlar disk, then do a media blasted flywheel with a SS-X pressure plate.

Personally I think having the right disk for the temperatures is a better choice.

Think of it as brake pads, look at it this way for an idea:
*Organic disk is a parts store Duralast
*TZ-Series Kevlar is like an EBC Green
*TZ/B Kevlar/Ceramic is like a Hawk HPS or Wilwood BP-10 or Polymatrix "E"
*B-Series Full Ceramic is like RayBestos ST-42 or Wilwood BP-20 or Polymatrix "P"
*DXD-B Ceramic 6-puck is like a Wilwood BP-30
*DXD-F Feramic 6-puck is like a Wilwood BP-40 or Raybestos ST-43.

These are just to give an idea of what type of range the friction materials are going to work well for a temperature range vs. a wear pattern. A more aggressive material will handle higher temperatures but will also result in a friction surface wear (i.e. cutting rotors with cold high friction coefficient pads but stopping on a dime within its operating range). There are compromises like the TZ/B dual friction disk that keeps the smooth modulation of the Kevlar and the higher torque capacity and temperature range of the Ceramic material.

Thanks for the reply. I hear what you are saying, but I am concerned about buy more clutch than I need. If I end up with a 600ft/lb set-up, It will most likely not last as long, have a larger potential to break drivetrain pieces (i.e. accidental sidestep) and may not feel as nice to drive. I can't see myself makeing more than 2 trips to the drag strip and two trips to the track for track days a year and I drive fairly conservatively. Do you really think the full ceramic is necessary. I understand you know much more about this than I do, but i am just making sure that your idea of what the clutch will see is similar to mine.

 

[twicks69]

You can go Kevlar, but if you are going to the drag strip with your power levels then I'd be running the SS-X pressure plate. The SS-series pressure plate won't handle 90% capacity power levels launched on a prepped surface, you will slip the clutch and you will glaze the kevlar material.

If you want the closest thing to a perfect world with peace for all, go with the SS-series pressure plate and TZ/B dual friction Kevlar/Ceramic disk. It will have a higher capacity than the TZ-series disk, and still drive as close to a stock car as you will ever find for your power levels. You will not need to media blast the flywheel either.

 

[doubleclutch]

You can go Kevlar, but if you are going to the drag strip with your power levels then I'd be running the SS-X pressure plate. The SS-series pressure plate won't handle 90% capacity power levels launched on a prepped surface, you will slip the clutch and you will glaze the kevlar material.

If you want the closest thing to a perfect world with peace for all, go with the SS-series pressure plate and TZ/B dual friction Kevlar/Ceramic disk. It will have a higher capacity than the TZ-series disk, and still drive as close to a stock car as you will ever find for your power levels. You will not need to media blast the flywheel either.

Sounds like a good compromise. Sorta funny as I was looking at Hawk HPS for the car as well. Both the clutch and that type of brake pad seem to line up with how I am building the car. Good amount of power but nothing too crazy. Very streetable. Is it you I contact to order a clutch or directly to tmz? is there a 'Tuners discount?

 

[twicks69]

There is not a Tuners discount, it is already the best price available on the custom clutch and is around $90 cheaper than buying from SBC directly if it was an offered clutch. These are pretty much custom to me only. The SS TZ/B, TZ/FE and B kits I am the only one to offer, the SS-X kits for the TZ, TZ/B, TZ/FE and B series are as well. Just go to my website and do a search for "K536" and it will come up right away.

Thanks,
TMZ

 

[doubleclutch]

Just ordered a SS with TZ/B disc. Pumped!

 

[Mello]

*Specific model used
---Pressure plate type:
-->SS-Series

---Disk type:
-->B-Series full Ceramic

*Specific model flywheel used
-->ACT Streetlite Chromoly

*Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch
-->75 miles. still doing breakin

*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available

*Usage Type
-->Daily Driver (still doing breakin)


*Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
-->Would you buy the same one again?

A little premature but so far, yes​

-->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)?

Hard to say but probably not on this application. SS is good.​

-->Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time?

Same as above.​

-->If your clutch wore out, how long did you have it for and mileage before it wore out the actual friction linings as a direct relation to usage, not due to other circumstances like hydraulics, pedal assembly or adjustment issues.

n/a
​

My initial thoughts on this clutch is "amazingly light pedal feel". This clutch setup replaced a Fidanza 3.2 4-puck kevlar clutch on a OEM cast flywheel. I also installed the Fidanza 3.2 on my second 2G DSM. When I switch between cars I get reminded of the old days when I'd tune cars running ACT 2600 PP. I'd get back into my car & could feel the workout I'd get from the ACT's. The ACT made the Fidanza feel like easy OEM & my SBC makes my Fidanza feel like it's an ACT.

Thanks for all your efforts working with SBC & your devotion & specific development to our platform.

 

[kmartind]

Any further thoughts on the streetability and longevity of the SS B (either in general, or versus an SS TZ/B)?
Would the full ceramic be likely to get too grabby in city traffic and become frustrating to drive?
Can it achieve a long lifespan anywhere near that of the Kevlar, or would it wear noticeably faster?
Any significant chatter/noise complaints?

(In this case it would be paired with a chromoly flywheel in a heavy 2GB GSX that will probably not see >400 ft-lbs even in the future, only very occasional track, and maybe once in a great while drag?)

 

[Mello]

I'm still breaking mine in. I'm only doing as much stop & go as possible & through a bunch of construction too. So far I get very smooth engagement & is very, extremely, streetable. If I did not know this was a SBC I'd think it was a regular old stock Mitsubishi OEM clutch. I choose the B-Series ceramic for it better heat capablilties over the kevlar for later (after break-in).

 

[mitsumike0]

Ive had my clutch on my car for almost 3 years, so this will be more of a long term review than most of the short term reviews in this thread.

*Specific model used
---Pressure plate type:
-->SS- 2200

---Disk type:
-->TZ/B-Series Kevlar / Ceramic dual friction

*Specific model flywheel used
-->Other - XTD flywheel (even though step height was around the taller end of spectrum .608, Tim made special arrangements to have my clutch have slightly less material to compensate for it. This resulted in no clutch drag with perfect engagement)

*Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch
Installed February 2015, 20k miles on clutch

*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available
DSMLink says 454. ET was a 12.3 at 116 (tdo5h 20g)

*Usage Type
-->Daily Driver

*Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
-->Would you buy the same one again?
Since im going with more power, im going to need the higher clamping force and greater torque capacity so no.
-->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)?
I plan to go with the 2700 pp
-->Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time?
Instead of going the dual friction route, im going to go with a full face ceramic clutch material on both sides
-->If your clutch wore out, how long did you have it for and mileage before it wore out the actual friction linings as a direct relation to usage, not due to other circumstances like hydraulics, pedal assembly or adjustment issues.
At this point i believe my clutch is starting to slip right where boost hits. Makes sense since thats where most of the torque is seen. I daily drove my car for a whole year, in all types of environments and I probably have 10 drag passes on it with hundreds of highway pulls on the clutch. Couple this with the daily driving in NJ, which includes many traffic jams, and its not wonder this clutch is probably on its way out!

 

[ThunderChild]

Subbed, and once I get mine in I will update with more info.

I bought this kit: K05048-SS-O

*Specific model flywheel used
Competition clutch chromoly flywheel and forged clutch fork.

*Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch
Have yet to install.

*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available
Will start around 230-240 and proceed as high as I can take it.

*Usage Type
Daily/weekend warrior.

*Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
-->Would you buy the same one again?
Not sure but my initial purchase came from lots of research, many positive reviews and recommendations from high dsm authority.

-->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)?
I will most likely have to upgrade eventually.

-->Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time?
See above.

-->If your clutch wore out, how long did you have it for and mileage before it wore out the actual friction linings as a direct relation to usage, not due to other circumstances like hydraulics, pedal assembly or adjustment issues.

Whoa there cowboy...let me get some miles on 'er first...

 

[twicks69]

Anyone else want to update and share their experiences? All the information is greatly appreciated!!

Copy and fill out:

*Specific model used
---Pressure plate type:
-->Stock PP (Old Rally Series stuff)
-->HD-Series
-->SS-Series
-->Custom SS-X Series
---Disk type:
-->Organic
-->TZ-Series full Kevlar
-->OFE-Series Organic / Feramic dual friction
-->TZ/FE-Series Kevlar / Feramic dual friction
-->TZ/B-Series Kevlar / Ceramic dual friction
-->B-Series full Ceramic
-->DXD-B Series Ceramic 6-puck
-->DXD-F Series Feramic 6-puck

*Specific model flywheel used
-->Stock
-->ACT Streetlite Chromoly
-->Competition Clutch Street Chromoly
-->Fidanza Aluminum
-->Other (specify)

*Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch

*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available

*Usage Type
-->Daily Driver
-->Street/Strip
-->Weekend Warrior Abuse
-->Drag Car
-->Auto-X Car
-->Road Race / Circuit Race Car
-->Rally Car
-->Stock Car


*Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
-->Would you buy the same one again?
-->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)?
-->Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time?
-->If your clutch wore out, how long did you have it for and mileage before it wore out the actual friction linings as a direct relation to usage, not due to other circumstances like hydraulics, pedal assembly or adjustment issues.



I appreciate everyone's feedback to my survey in advance!

 

[Dreams Realized]

What the hell I will give it a whirl. I have probably clocked just over 500 miles on my Southbend now. Vast majority of that was a run down to Portland, OR.

*Specific model used
---Pressure plate type:
-->SSX-Series
---Disk type:
-->TZ/ B series kevlar ceramic dual friction

*Specific model flywheel used
-->ACT Streetlite Chromoly (media blasted)

*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available
Around stock HP
*Usage Type
-->Weekend Warrior Abuse

At first the Clutch was extremely stiff. Never stalled it but definitely made my calf throb after I got out of the car... Between the clutch and the stiffer billet front and rear motor mounts the car was alot more ready to put power down. I've only just now started launching the car at 3500 rpm on back roads. Holds power great until the stock turbo loses gas. I will be turbo swapping when I get back from contract in January and dyno tuning at English (as long as the state doesn't shut down again). Now that the clutch is worn in it feels pretty close to stock pedal feel again. I can update this again when I'm rocking the power that I bought this clutch for. Would buy again though, seems plenty strong enough for my power goals (400 whp).

 

[97_4g63t]

---Pressure plate type:
-->Custom SS-X Series
---Disk type:
-->B-Series full Ceramic

*Specific model flywheel used
-->Competition Clutch Street Chromoly

*Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch
5 1/2 years and around 5000 miles
*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available
606hp 553 tq
11.54@ 128
fwd on m&h slicks launching @ 6250 rpms
*Usage Type
-->Weekend Warrior Abuse
-->Drag Car



*Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
-->Would you buy the same one again? yes
-->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)? no
-->Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time? no
-->If your clutch wore out, how long did you have it for and mileage before it wore out the actual friction linings as a direct relation to usage, not due to other circumstances like hydraulics, pedal assembly or adjustment issues. still holding it down. Had disengagement issues at first but you took care of it and its been good ever since

 

[MattHDSM]

*Specific model used
K05048-HD

---Pressure plate type:
-->HD-Series

---Disk type:
-->Organic

*Specific model flywheel used
-->Stock

*Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch
Been in the car since I rebuilt the motor in mid-late 2018, a little over 8000km on it now.

*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available
ECMLink says approximately 250 HP & 250 ft/lbs, but it's not tuned properly and I've got the boost turned down because of creep. Haven't gone down the strip this year because of boost creep, covid, and money

*Usage Type
-->Daily Driver
-->Street/Strip

*Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
-->Would you buy the same one again? No
-->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)? Yes
-->Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time? No
-->If your clutch wore out, how long did you have it for and mileage before it wore out the actual friction linings as a direct relation to usage, not due to other circumstances like hydraulics, pedal assembly or adjustment issues. So just last week after porting my turbine housing, I went out on a test drive and let the boost fly. Apparently ~20psi uphill (log says only ~250ft/lbs at the time) is too much for this pressure plate and disk combo. I could smell my clutch inside the cabin, but it wasn't smoking so I didn't totally roast it. It seems okay now, drives fine, but now I'm worried I'll destroy it once I've got boost creep under control and a proper tune. For others looking at the same kit, you may quickly over power it once you've started making more power so keep that in mind. I think I'll get the K05048-SS-O next to make sure I have enough room to play around.

 

[Jon Lane]

---Pressure plate type:
-->SS-Series

---Disk type:
-->TZ-Series full Kevlar

*Specific model flywheel used
-->Generic Chromoly

*Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch
--20k mi

*Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available
-350hp street

*Usage Type
-->Daily Driver

*Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
-->Would you buy the same one again? Definitely.
-->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)? Nope.
-->Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time? Nope.

One of the best DSM purchases ever. Virtually no wear, smooth as silk engagement, slightly heavier pedal.

 

[twicks69]

It's been a bit of time since this was revived; I know there are a lot more people with these clutches out there, let's hear about it!

 

[habitatguy187]

I'm currently interested in the dual friction organic/feramic disc they have? It must be new because I don't see it in this thread

 

[twicks69]

I'm currently interested in the dual friction organic/feramic disc they have? It must be new because I don't see it in this thread

The Feramic materials have been discontinued. I haven't sold an OFE disk in quite some time.

I would recommend the TZ/B dual friction Kevlar/Ceramic over the OFE anyways; better temperature range. The organic had a tendency to burn up when put to the temp limits, and then people would friction weld the Feramic side to the flywheel causing major problems. The TZ/B had a better overall driveability and very good lifespan. I could also make an Organic / Ceramic dual friction disk if someone wanted to use the Organic material. The Kevlar lasts longer though, and if overheated and glazed, it could be cooled down and broken back in over time to work properly.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Tim i have yet to drive my dsm looking forward to the clutch from you though then I can post.

 

[NWHTanK]

I had no problems with the southbend setup up on my gst. And still going to be using them in awd ppg .