short block ?

[kevbojunior]

okay im looking to rebuild my 7 bolt bottom end. im only looking to get at most is 400whp. should i just put stock internals with arp hardware and upgraged bearings or maybe a frankenstein set up from dsm grave yard with the 1g rods with 2g pistons? the car is a 99 gst, this is why i dont want anything over 400whp due to no traction at all over that.

 

[matt98eclipse]

The stock bottem end is more then capable to handle over 400hp. I would personally stick with the stock bottem end if thats your goals.

 

[kahl23]

Yep, stock bottom end should be ok for your goals. The 1g/2g combo would give you some more insurance, no doubt about that though. Definitely get ARP hardware for the headstuds though. For simplicity's sake you could also get away with a composite head gasket, at those levels a MLS headgasket really isn't necessary, although if the head is off the car and you feel like getting it decked there's no reason why you shouldn't run a MLS. If you do go with an MLS, get it decked and be sure the surface finish is 40RA or better, your machinist should know what that means, and if he doesn't find a new machinist.

 

[kevbojunior]

thanks for the help. i def plan on getting the head gasket and arp hardware every where i can. the dsm grave yard sells the 1g/2g combo for the 7 bolt for like 600+ but you can get an eagle/wiseco combo for like 750. that close in price i would just get the eagle/wiseco setup and have the ultimate insurance on my build. also they sell stock rods and pistons for like 240 used but they have been cleaned and checked out. are the 1g rods that much better than the 2g? thanks again for the input.

 

[turboking15]

As far as i know you cant run the 1g rods on the 2g and vice versa. If you are looking for a cheap internal upgrade head over to the evo forums and look for a set of evo 8 or 9 rods and pistons. They will fit on the 7 bolt crank, the rods are a bit stronger and the pistons are 8.8:1 cr. Ive seen sets on there in the 150 - 200 dollar range.

 

[kahl23]

As far as i know you cant run the 1g rods on the 2g and vice versa. If you are looking for a cheap internal upgrade head over to the evo forums and look for a set of evo 8 or 9 rods and pistons. They will fit on the 7 bolt crank, the rods are a bit stronger and the pistons are 8.8:1 cr. Ive seen sets on there in the 150 - 200 dollar range.

This is incorrect. 1g/2g combos have been around forever, please do some research before you post something like that, as a simple "1g rods" search netted me these:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ven...kenstein-short-blocks-2g-pistons-1g-rods.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/313947-2g-pistons-1g-rods.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/222934-1g-rods-2g-7bolt-crank.html

etc, etc, etc.

To the OP, the stock 7-bolt can handle what you're asking. I don't know if you have access to the DSMLink forums, but if you do this is a good thread for you:ECMTuning User Support Forums. That being said, there are 7 bolt motors that have failed before 400 hp, just like there are those that have produced over 400hp for a while with no issues. It's your call as far as how much money you want to spend and what you see yourself doing with this car. Staying with the stock 7 bolt, new bearings/rings seem like a good idea. If it's only a $150 difference between the eagle/wiseco combo and the 1g/2g combo, that seems like a no-brainer, but realize that it isn't bulletproof. Your internals are really only as good as your tune to some degree. The E/W will be more tolerant of bad tuning than a stock 7 bolt or the 1g/2g, but you can still blow that motor with a sh*tty tune. I would say, are you looking for 400hp maxed out? Or 400hp on this setup and then maybe moving on to something else? What exactly do you plan on running? Finally, what condition is your current motor in?

 

[kevbojunior]

yeah i realize the tune determines the reliability of my car. im just goin to do a keydiver chip, close to stock but yet i can adjust a tad a run the size injectors i need to turn up the boost on my e3 16g. as for the motor, it is apart so right now im shopping around and trying to figure out whether to go fully built bottom or just beefing up the stock internals. im only going for 400whp max maybe just over or under due to being fwd. i plan to eventually go to a fp3052 but will still be only pump gas tune and that will put me to the 400whp mark on a decent tune.

 

[kahl23]

We were putting down almost 400 whp on a 16G. We've got a 3052 now and that's waaaay overkill if your goal is 400 hp. I would go straight for DSMLink, especially if you're going to keep upgrading.

 

[kevbojunior]

how much are you making on pump gas with the 3052 and e3 16g? well im not going to keep upgrading maybe the turbo and thats it. i dont really want to do any tuning, maybe just the little adjustments on the keydiver chip with the afc not much though. its just seems really simple and thats what im looking for with this car but quick on the street.

 

[kahl23]

I hate to put out numbers without actually being able to back them up, so I'll just say that for the short while our setup was together last season (before my brother explored what 14,000RPM will do to a valvetrain) the best pass he made on it was trapping 122mph, 93 pump, 23 psi, 10.x:1 AFRs and all the timing sliders zeroed on DSMLink. Right now the engine is going back together after a little refresher over the winter (new head, twin disc, rear axles, etc), so we'll see what she can do, but our goal with this turbo is 10s or bust, and this turbo definitely is capable of 10s. On the e316g we put down 347/357 hp/tq on pump, 374/389 on race. Decent numbers, for some reason the tune that had given us no problem all season just went to sh*t on the dyno, more knock than I'd ever seen on it before, but here I am making excuses . It sounds like you want a more plug and play solution for your tuning, and a 3052 could do that for you, but so could a lot of less expensive turbos. For 400 on pump I would say look TDO6H 20g, bolt on 50trim (Garrett, not a knockoff "Garrett style", but I actually don't know who sells real Garrett 50trims anymore), or one of the myriad smaller Holset variants.

 

[kevbojunior]

so for the e3 16g my stock internals are plenty and sounds like the fp3052 on pump wouldnt hurt the stock bottom end either? but the fp3052 will def hit 400 whp on pump easy?

 

[kahl23]

I don't really know the capabilities of Keydriver chips with AFCs like you plan on doing, so I don't want to say it would "easily", but let me say that on a DSMLink'd car on a 3052 with the proper supporting mods, if you don't hit 400whp on pump I would be very surprised, so I suspect it would be similar with your setup. Your stock internals should be ok for the 16g, and if you're looking to go 400whp from the 3052, then they again should be alright, although that turbo can exceed their limits, I wouldn't be surprised if a boost spike on stock internals resulted in some damage. Like I said before, the longevity of your engine is as much a question of tuning as it is internals, and I'm really not that familiar with the Keydriver chips, never having used one.
It's too bad you can't see the DSMLink forums, I'll cut and paste a few comments that I think apply to you, hopefully it isn't an issue with either of the forum leaders, but if it is I'll remove it. All of these are from members of this forum as well.

Im currently pushing about 47lbs/ min out of my FP3052 on my stock 7-bolt. So far on pump gas, Im running consistent 11.70s at 117-118mph with no knock. Ryan is absolutely right, its all about a tune with no knock. About 26psi, but Im also having some boost control issues, probably a leak somewhere. I cant complain, 114k miles on my 7-bolt, BTW. Should be able to see some 120mph+ traps with some E85.

7-bolt POWER!

I've got around 73K on my motor. Last year ran 24psi daily on the 3052 to see 45lb/min. At the track would up the boost abit to around 26psi & flowing 48lb/min. Have ran up to 30psi on stock HG & ARP's. One of the other locals was running 32psi daily on his stock bottom end last summer with his 3065.....

I dyno'd 400 WHP on a bone stock 7-bolt longblock and a 50-trim at about 27 psi. Everything was fine with it until I dummied up a vacuum line to the wastegate and went 40+ psi for a few seconds. Hooked three of the rods badly, but the block and crank were fine. Still using that engine today, but with Eagle rods and Wiseco pistons.

Hope that helps

 

[kevbojunior]

that def helps. if i even get the car to go to 400whp. the car will be a daily driver so it will barely see the track but maybe a few times.