Shaking off the rust...

[asian312]

09/15-16/07 – PCA (Yellow-Solo) @ TWS

Finally, the weekend had arrived. And with it comes the start of my second season tracking the Eclipse. It was also time to brush off the layers of rust that developed over the summer months and get both the driver and car ready for what turned out to be another eye opening weekend.

First up the car got a smattering of upgrades. Mainly a new and fresh cooling system from water pump to hoses, but there were a few goodies in the garage that needed to find a new home other than the shelf. So in went an EvoIII 16g attached to a FP manifold, some Dejon piping with a MAF, and a little icing in the form of DSMLink. Boost was still clocked down to 10-11 psi for various reasons and also got around to taking a degree of camber out of the rear and an alignment for good measure.

As for the driver it was a different story. This weekend I would not only be joined by my normal racing buddies, but new additions starting with my youngest brother in his Audi A4, my girlfriend in her 350Z, and long time DSM buddies Dan and James in their GTO and 3KGT. A month ago we had 5 green students, 1 blue, and 1 yellow. Two weeks before the event we lost a green and gained a yellow. The feeling of accomplishment combined with anxiety and doubt as I read ‘Yellow-Solo’ (HPDE3) next to my name was unfathomable (ok may be not that bad, but I was really concerned). This would be my first full weekend as a solo and bumping up to a faster run group. This venue was also different in that I would be running with PCA (Porsche Club of America) rather than TDE. Nail biting stuff.

Sat. morning rolls around and I find myself in familiar territory. The grand view of the front straight, the glow of the paddock garages in the early morning, and sun just peaking over the in field brought on a nice warm and fuzzy feeling. Our entourage settles in and we get down to business slapping on race pads, checking torque settings and tire pressures, numbering cars, and then it was time for the mornings driver’s meeting (these Porsche guys sure like to start early). All too soon I find my self gridded, donning helmet and gloves, and trying to calm myself. First objective of the day was to re-familiarize myself with the track, locate corner workers, feel out the race line, and not fall off. I was also concerned about being the train conductor as looking around I see GT2/3, 911s, Caymans, and Boxters. Other than a ’04 Cobra, 2 Vettes, and a Subbie it was a sea of Porsches (imagine that at a PCA event). We get the 3 min warning and soon after we are ushered onto the track. I quickly get to work getting some heat in the tires and making sure the brakes are under me.

Then it just all comes flooding in. It’s kind of that same sensation when you haven’t ridden a bicycle in a while. A lot of the warm up lap becomes automated leaving my mind clear to check the condition of the track surface and recall all the details from past instructors. As I approach the front straight the full course yellows have been dropped and I ease the car up through 4th and clear the traffic behind me. Midway through the straight I climb the bank to the top preparing for the turn down into corners one and two. I can hear Chuck chanting ‘One car length past the chain link fence’ in my head as I tap the brakes to load the front and dive bomb off the oval. Instinctively I’m looking ahead for the radio tower to straighten up my brake zone. Scrub off the speed, find my track position through turn one and nail the apex of turn 2. Man that felt good! Turns three, four, and five are dispatched quickly as I approach corner six. I check my mirrors and I see a GT2 and one of the Vettes closing on me quickly. As this was a reconnaissance lap for me, I didn’t track out from six to leave the fast line open for the two behind me. As I cruise down the back straight I’m building the courage for turn seven. This is a corner that by eye sight doesn’t make any sense. Many of the drivers prefer a late entry into seven riding near the mid part of the bowl. However, if you turn in earlier and get the car down at the base where the curbing is, the extra camber will suck your car in and it really feels like your turning on rails. So hear I am at sitting mid forth asking myself if I’m ready. Well the decision is made and I commit. Lift, tap the brakes and I’m all in. That sensation of getting whipped through that corner is fantastic! But then you need to deal with the speed through turn 8 which is a blind uphill. One again my mind tells me to look for the water tower. I find my line, crest the hill, and hard on the brakes to get the speed down for eight and nine. Then it’s back on the throttle as we transition back in onto the old track to do battle with the carousel. Once again dump speed and into 3rd, I take the center line progressively getting the car situated for the entrance out into turn eleven. Then its gas, gas, gas as I shoot towards twelve. This is another deceiving corner as the eye does not see the small dip in the track surface near the apex. Like turn seven, if you have faith and commit it will hold you in. I must have been feeling pretty religious that morning as I lifted, turned, floored it, and nailed that corner. In fact I was going just a little faster than expected and didn’t leave enough brake zone for turn 13. It wasn’t pretty, but I make it through the last set of corners which form a tight left-right-left combination. The session continues on without any incidents as I match pace with a Subbie and an older 911 with a Chevy 350 out back. A great start to the day.

Back in the paddocks I take a quick second to pull out some timing in the 6-7k range and check the tire temps. The alignment with the decrease of rear camber really made the car come alive. It felt like it wanted to turn more naturally, was much more neutral in the corners, and tire pressures backed up my gut feeling. I was finally using the tires equally and really putting that 255 rubber to use. About that time I realize the green group is out and I walk to the hot pit to check out my friends on the front straight. As the yellow Audi comes by I see a very familiar racing suit in the passenger seat. Did my brother get Chuck as his instructor? I stroll back to the car and I notice the 3KGT is in. Curious as to why it was back in I started to look for James. He ended up getting a black flag for spilling fuel on the track. Seems he left the gas cap at the gas station last night. No biggy, we make a quick trip out and it was right where he left it.

We get back to the paddocks and our green students are smiles ear to ear. Chuck is still the good ‘Ol Chuck I had as my first instructor almost exactly a year ago. Extremely spirited and always there egging you on to break through to the next boundary. Heather is having the time of her life and I get a good laugh from Dan when he tipped 140mph on the front straight. Guess that’s what happens with 400+ whp attached to the loud pedal. I think there may have been an admission of fear somewhere in there.

Second session and I’m raring to go. We pull out of the pits for the warm up lap and as I’m approaching turn 3 the car goes silent. I turn the key to refire the engine, but it doesn’t catch. Quickly I signal to the cars behind me and pull off track to the corner worker station. I let them know everything is OK and they check for any leaks under the car. Nothing to be found, so I give it another turn of the key. It cranks over just fine and finally catches. She’s struggling to idle and sounds like a miss as I roll through the RPM range. Once mobile again I let the corner worker know I’m going to limp it into the pits. They give me the signal that the track is clear to enter and I roll out. First thoughts are blown IC piping; you have a lot of time to think when cruising down the back straight at 50mph. Back under the shade things are beginning to look bad. All the IC pipes are still connected and nothing leaking beyond the MAF. I turn my attention towards the ECU and tuning. As I fire up the laptop and connect to DSMLink the first thing I notice is that some of the values are showing up as gray. I check the tune for fuel, airflow, and timing and everything is zeroed out. The slider for global had been reset to the 660cc flashed onto the chip and needed to be corrected for the 450s in the car. Instantly the engine smoothes out and idle returns back to normal. With the help from my friend Andy who came down for the weekend we reload the tune from earlier logs that morning. We decide to take her out on the parade lap for some testing. Session three was spent making sure everything was still in order and a little over cautious, but I was back up to speed on the forth session.

After some steak and ribs and a good nights rest it was time to get back in the game Sun. morning. In the grid I saw Chuck walking up to my car. Seems his yellow student was missing and asked if I wanted a rider. Don’t have to ask me twice, I was all game for having my first instructor back in the car with me. We set off and adjusted my lines slightly remembering all that I could from that first DE. Next thing I knew I was diving into turn one 10 mph faster with out a brake check. Same goes for turn seven where we absolutely blitz through the apex. One of the biggest improvements came for adjusting shift points and using all the RPMs. I had been short shifting 3rd and 4th at 5k which is what landed me in 5th on the front straight. Chuck pointed out I have 1,500 unused left on the tach. Next time around I ran it all the way up through 3rd and 4th which took me to just under 120mph before turn in for one and two. His advise to me when solving shift problems was try first to stay in the higher gear and emphasis on maintaining momentum. Saves time shifting and keeps the turbo in the sweet spot. I managed to do the same in the 4-5-6 complex as well as 12-13-14-15. When I first drove with Chuck I would upshift twice and downshift twice in one lap. Now I was doing the same thing, but able to move the shift points earlier to other areas of the track and maintain that higher gear onto a series of corners and onto the straights. This is just what the doctor ordered.

The next two sessions I assimilated Chuck’s lines and merged them with some other lines that seem to work a little better for me. I was slowly getting faster in turn one, but wasn’t quite comfortable with taking turn seven flat out as I had done with Chuck on board. On turns eight and thirteen I started to use a mid track line and a little trail braking to enter a bit smoother. This translated into less distance traveled and better setup for nine. Turn twelve saw a 5mph increase as I changed the turn in point. On the third session of the day Thura let me borrow his Traqmate unit to log some laps. This thing has it all from segment times to max speed, cornering speed, brake time, etc. One of the coolest features is the ‘theoretical best lap’ where it takes all the fastest segments and shows you what you should be able to do. This doesn’t exactly translate into what I’m capable of, but does give an indication of what a lap without traffic should produce. My brother’s (supercharged Miata) best time of the day was a 2.15. Thura with the RX8 was sitting slightly behind with a 2.16. And the surprise of the day was my time at a 2.19. When we compared TBL Colin was a 2.13, while Thura and I were 2.15.3 and 2.15.8. Just 0.5 of a second behind! That absolutely made my day.

As I was gleaming with joy over the timed lap, I suddenly got a chill down my spine as I saw black flags on the track. Having friends and family in 3 out of 4 run groups made incidents like these very nerve wracking. Dan in his GTO had one earlier due to an exhaust bracket that made its way loose, but other than that we had been very fortunate. Quickly I check to see what run group was on the track and about that time one of the driver’s coming off mentioned my buddies VR4 had went off in turn seven. This is one of the corners at TWS where you don’t have the luxury of a football field on either side of the track. It’s also the second or third fastest corner. Patiently we waited and after an eternity I see ‘Red’ with James and Chuck in the flatbed. Things at that point start to go blurry. The best news was that James and Chuck did not sustain any injuries and were OK. At first glance the VR4 looked like in decent shape, but then I began to start noticing extreme positive camber in the passenger rear and equally disturbing negative camber on the driver rear. Both tires on the passenger side had rolled off the bead and sat airless. Two rims were trashed as well as the front active areo and the lower passenger core support was displaced 3 inches back. On the bright side the frame seemed straight up top and the upper shock towers were untouched. Visual from an instructor behind confirmed that they dropped two off coming out of turn seven which was what started the incident. At that point the VR4 came back across to the inside of the track which is where a Subaru flipped a few months back going the opposite direction. The inside of turn seven is the base of a dirt hill. James did well to steer the car parallel to the hill, but had to be passenger to what I can only describe as 2 foot speed bumps at 60+ mph. We got AAA on the phone and the car prepped to ride back into Houston.

An eye opening weekend indeed. Once again the reminder that what we do is still dangerous despite the controlled environment, run groups, passing rules, etc. I've had a similar realization once before when I had a spectacular off in the Miata in turn 2 going clockwise. If I was driving the track in the same CCW configuration as this weekend the car would have been totaled and I’ll leave it at that. Bouncing back wasn’t easy. Race car drivers brush it off because that’s their job and partially due to insanity. For those of us that treat this as a hobby, we have to make a different decision of balancing the enjoyment, adrenaline, fear, cost, and risk. I made a conscious decision to push on, but I learned from that incident. Not to be fear full of turn 2, but as to what was the root cause and the symptoms that lead up to that. I developed my own mental check before I take corners such as 1-2, 7-8-9, and 12. ‘Am I prepared to commit to this corner?’ If I hesitate I back it out a few tenths.

So how can I sum this up? I achieved my main goal which was to adapt to the yellow run group and successfully survived my solo debut. Setting a comparable time for the yellow run group was an added bonus. My younger brother Michael was blistering fast and took to the track naturally (check out the 150HP A4 reeling in the Aston on the front straight). Heather and Dan were not far behind as the three find themselves in Blue next time round. James is a bit shaken up, but I’m hoping this won’t deter him away from giving it another go. Enjoy the pics and I’ll be back out next month.

 

[asian312]

Few more pics

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

Fantastic read as always!!

What camber specs are you running now front/rear?

Spring rates?

I have the same wheel/tire setup (17x9 +35 with 255/40). Did you do any modification to the front fenders? I cut some of the inner lip out of the front fender and it's very close to tucking in but still needs a little further cutting. The rear doesn't come close to tucking but it's not a problem because the rear height is higher (as is yours it appears) and there's enough rear roll stiffness to prevent the tire hitting the fender. Even with 14kg springs up front the tire will still hit the fender if I hit a decent bump mid-corner.

Your car looks stunning as always. You've also just convinced me to paint my CF hood (while I'm in there for a front bumper repaint).

PS - I just saw your new pictures of your car in the gallery with your DD wheels - is that ride height setting the same you use for road racing? If so, our rear ride heights are the same but your front height is significantly higher than mine and that might be enough to prevent rubbing in the front.

 

[asian312]

Fronts are right around -1.75 and the rears at -0.8.

The car is still on the Koni yellows and OE H&R springs. From my understanding they are 430/260, but I can't confirm it since I can't find it on H&R's page any more. The are stiffer than the Eibach Prokits which are suppose to be 260/130. I don't have height adjustment so this is both DD and track height. From fender to wheel center is 13.5" in the front and 14" out back.

I didn't touch the fronts but I did roll the rears as the sharp lip cut a groove in my tire first time out. My car sits pretty tall and I know the drivers front touches for a brief moment when I cross the transition from the banked front straight to the flat infield. The wear is negligible as the tires wears faster than any damage the fender rub would cause. Can't say I've noticed any other times they touch around the track.

Glad you enjoyed the read, hoping to get a camera setup for the Oct. event.

 

[James92TSi]

My poor VR-4.... she was doing so well out there too.

She'll be back one day, and we'll be back on track again. Promise.

The big thing is that Chuck and I walked away. Not a scratch on either of us, amazingly. 3S cars are tanks, and I mean that as a term of endearment. I love my Red, all 3800 lbs of her.

Right now I'm still a bit hung up on the crash. Mental replays and such. The car is going to be put away as-is for a while and it'll get fixed when I am mentally ready to do so.

When the time comes, I don't know how I'll react to being on track again. I am looking forward to flagging in October and taking a few parade laps though.

I just hope my crash doesn't scare folks around here away from the sport. Even after crashing, I'll still continue to encourage people to give track driving a try. I will likely be a bit less zealous and convey a bit about the risks though.

We are still unsure if I dropped two off on the right or not. It sort of makes sense, but neither Chuck nor I felt tires drop off in the car, and both of us recall being at 2/3 track toward the right, but nowhere near the right track edge. I mean if it happened, it happened -- I made a mistake and crashed. But I am not yet convinced that's how/why it happened. The "visual" is questionable unless a corner worker saw us drop tires off... as there were no cars behind me. Next car behind me was Dan (569 silver GTO), and he was halfway down the 5-6 straight when I turned into 7. I was already off in the hills before he could come through 7 and see.

Good thing too, as I would NEVER want any of my friends to have seen that wreck. Two people don't need to be having flashbacks and nightmares about it.

I am really trying to get closure on what caused the rear end to step out on me, but I may not get it. I have taken a couple other lessons away from the incident, neither of which is related to car control, driver error, or whatever you want to call it.

Lesson #1 - Motor racing is dangerous, and anything can happen at any time. Be prepared. (This is an understood thing among most drivers, but we try not to think about it too much. I think it bears repeating, as the danger is real.)

Lesson #2 - There are quite a few people who like having me around. It's common knowledge that nobody wants to see *anyone* get hurt on the track, but it's different when you're the one in the wreck and people you don't even know are coming over to you to see if you're OK. It's different when your friends are worried sick for you because they don't know if you're alive.

-- James
DSMtalk admin extraordinaire.

 

[James92TSi]

Here is my original write-up of my experiences this weekend, focusing mostly on the crash. I wrote this Monday morning after not getting a whole lot of sleep the night before.

Crash at Texas World Speedway

Pic of me on track

I spent most of the day Saturday getting my feet wet and trying to learn the sight lines of the course. I was trying hard, but not getting much done. I just wasn't seeing the track well. It follows then that I wasn't driving it very well either.

Sunday I set out with the one and only goal of improving my vision to SEE DOWN TRACK. I made a huge improvement in that regard in the first session on Sunday, and it led me to fix a host of other issues I had the previous day.

Sunday was half a day of real progress... awesome fun, and doing things that I never believed the car could do. Those first two and a half sessions were amazing.

It all ended in 5 seconds of shear ####ing terror.

First, a preface for those not familiar with TWS.

Turn 7 is a high speed sweeper at the end of the back straight, with lots of banking and an uphill exit to catch the car. In the VR-4, the method is simply lift, turn, gas... the car rotates, then on throttle input the AWD grabs the track and pulls the car uphill toward track-out. It's a 100 mph corner with a properly prepared car. I had been taking it at 85-87 mph previously, and pushed the pace to 90-92 mph this time around.

We made a beautiful turn 7, hitting my marks on entry, apex, and track-out. It felt *awesome*. Time to shift focus on driving uphill to the braking point of 8, which is on the right track edge just after you crest the hill. Flat out on the gas, holding constant steering (there is a slight left curve as you are setting up for 8 ).

Without warning or input from me to cause it, the rear end rotated slightly to the right, aiming the car to the left down the banking. I responded by staying in the throttle and smoothly countersteering right. It wasn't enough to keep the car from falling off the left edge of the track. We weren't going to spin, but we were going off.

Once I knew we were going off, I straightened the steering, got on the brakes hard, and looked for the best place to put the car. That (where to put the car) was the nasty part.

We were sliding at an angle such that the left side / rocker panel of the car was headed for the base of a hill / rock pile. I was going to hit it -- the question was how.

Immediate thought was "I have to run up this hill, or we are going to roll."

And that's what I did. Steered left, got it to straighten up just enough to run up the hill rather than catching the base of the hill and rolling, and then I was along for the ride.

We ran up the hill, and the bottom fell out. Slammed onto a second hill, and the bottom fell out of that. Slammed down into a flat area and got the car hauled to a stop.

My instructor (Chuck Willis - a 3000GT specialist) and I were both fine physically. I am still pretty ####ed-up mentally, and probably will be for quite a while. I'm not a racecar driver... I never made the choice to get over wrecks quickly and hop right back in the car in exchange for money.

The car will be rebuilt, but it will take some time for two reasons. 1) I put a good bit of money into it just to get it all together for this event. 2) I am not mentally ready to assess the damage and begin work on it. All I can think about is the crash. I've seen the replay in my head a hundred or more times, and the ending ALWAYS sucks.

I'm just going to push the car into the garage and forget about things for a little while. Time heals, and I'm going to take some time.

She will be back someday, and we will go back on track again. Meanwhile I'll flag the October event, and most likely flag December as well. I was planning on driving December, but I'm pretty sure the car won't be ready, and am unsure if I'll be ready to go on track either. We'll see.

Above all else, I'm thankful that Chuck and I escaped without injury. Inside turn 7 is one of the nastiest spots to go off at TWS. In fact, there was a Subie rollover in those same hills I was in just a few months ago.

Just thankful I saw what to do, did it, and we got the best possible result... nobody died, nobody got hurt.

-- James

One interesting note. After exchanging emails with Chuck today, he says I was a little early on entry and a little early on throttle, so the car wasn't quite fully rotated when the AWD took hold and took us to the track-out point. Still, that was no reason for the rear end to step out. At the time, I thought I was a bit better on my marks, but I trust Chuck's judgment and knowledge. If he says I was off-line, I was off-line.

 

[asian312]

Turn 7 comes at you so quick that its really hard to gauge. My original turn in point was a tad bit later than the one Chuck showed me on Sun. morning. The differance is that I do drive to the bottem to meet the apexi and really rely on that extra camber to complete the turn (the 255s dont hurt either). I'm also a chicken and use a brake check to get the nose loaded for turn in.

There is a slight surface change towards the lower portion of the bowl as well. Curious if the front and rears were on two different surface types. And then there's my theory of hot slippery front tires and the rear steer kicking in when you countersteered.

Either way, dont get too hung up over it. It's a part of the track that is difficult to master.

 

[stealthTT]

And then there's my theory of hot slippery front tires and the rear steer kicking in when you countersteered.

That's an interesting theory especially considering the different traction of front and rear tires. I've heard of two other offs and been a passenger in one where a similar situation happened leaving the parties unable to explain the reason for the spin. Some have suggested the rear steering (4-wheel steering) was late to react meaning the front and rear wheels ended up out of phase instead of the intended same phase. My friend, Lethal_VR4, removed the 4-wheel steering mechanism from his VR4 and I'm contemplating it on mine. The benefits of 4-wheel steering are great and I believe I've felt the good effects during "emergency" lane changes. Possibly old bushings are causing unintended binding or deflections?

To read up on the system, go to this link and skim down to the "4-Wheel Steering (4WS) System" section. The theory is explained well with vector graphs, system diagrams, and even drawings of wheel paths showing the benefits of rear steering.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-stim.htm

 

[asian312]

That was a very informative read. I do have a few questions concerning the 4WS system.

1) Is there some sort of accelerometer that measures the cornering load to activate the 4WS? Or is it just done hyro-mechanically when there is enough pressure from the oil pump due to RPM/speed to activate?

2) It mentions the ability to differentiate between dry and slippery conditions? Some sort of traction control?

The off in seven is a bit disconcerning as the ruling of two off driver's right came from an instructor who was following James into the corner. Things that I know are that the car immediatly behind James was Dan and that certainly wasn't his instructor. Dan was also mid straight and didn't even see James go off. I'm attempting to get in contact with the corner workers to get their perspective of the incident.

From collected accounts we know the car never swapped ends. James's account is that the car began to oversteer and he countered with a bit of counter-steer. At some point the car decided to track inside towards the left edge of the track. If I recall correctly it was like a push sensation like understeer as they went of on the inside.

Things that dont make sense is that normally to get to the inside requires a lift or two off driver's right will redirect the car back accross track. I suppose even if you were to drop the passenger rear off it could possibly cause the same type of incident, but I'd imagine going ass end around or at least a little bobble in the car. The other factor here is physics. That's 4,000lbs being whipped around at 60+ mph. One would think without some type of major redirection that the car would have fallen off the right side.

Anyways, my theory goes something like this. The day started a bit cool and slowly warmed up. James also got Chuck as an instructor after session 2 and speeds were slowly building up. I do have James's word and an eye witness of him bleeding off tire pressures before that session. 35psi sounds like the right number. After a few laps the front tires could possibly be getting a bit over worked, thus getting pressures a little higher than normal. We have from Chuck's account the entry was early and power was applied early. James had also mentioned to me that they were not using the most inner portion of the corner. So the difference in track surfaces and possibly the entery speed without the added camber could have initally caused the rear to break loose. This is where things get interesting. I think on counter steering to correct the rear the fronts didn't have the grip while the rears turned in phase. The weight distribution would have been on the rears at this point due to acceleration. This difference in front and rear grip allowed the rear tires to further pull the rear out and point the nose towards the inside of the track despite the right steering input from the driver's wheel. This could also explain the push effect James felt towards the left side of the track.

It's a bit far fetched, but I don't really know any other causes with my limited driving experiance to have caused this. Initally Chuck was baffeled as well as sitting on the passenger side he too did not feel any tires go off. Other theories is that something in the supension/4WS broke or came loose. Maybe a deflating tire? How knows...It may remain a mystery.

 

[James92TSi]

That was a very informative read. I do have a few questions concerning the 4WS system.

1) Is there some sort of accelerometer that measures the cornering load to activate the 4WS? Or is it just done hyro-mechanically when there is enough pressure from the oil pump due to RPM/speed to activate?

2) It mentions the ability to differentiate between dry and slippery conditions? Some sort of traction control?

1) Hydromechanical. The 4WS pump is bolted to the top of the rear diff housing, and is mechanically driven by the rear diff. The 40-45mph minimum speed for 4WS activation is simply the speed at which the 4WS pump generates enough pressure to operate the rear steering rack.

2) This is based on driver input to the steering wheel. The 4WS system responds with greater rear steering when the front steering is turned abruptly than when the front steering is turned smoothly. Mitsu's engineering assumption is that the front steering will be used much more smoothly when wet/crappy road conditions call for it, and the rear steering is less sensitive to smooth inputs. The 4WS system itself is not aware of road conditions in any way; it is a simple hydromechanical system with no computers or sensors of any kind.

The off in seven is a bit disconcerning as the ruling of two off driver's right came from an instructor who was following James into the corner. Things that I know are that the car immediatly behind James was Dan and that certainly wasn't his instructor. Dan was also mid straight and didn't even see James go off. I'm attempting to get in contact with the corner workers to get their perspective of the incident.

From collected accounts we know the car never swapped ends. James's account is that the car began to oversteer and he countered with a bit of counter-steer. At some point the car decided to track inside towards the left edge of the track. If I recall correctly it was like a push sensation like understeer as they went of on the inside.

Things that dont make sense is that normally to get to the inside requires a lift or two off driver's right will redirect the car back accross track. I suppose even if you were to drop the passenger rear off it could possibly cause the same type of incident, but I'd imagine going ass end around or at least a little bobble in the car. The other factor here is physics. That's 4,000lbs being whipped around at 60+ mph. One would think without some type of major redirection that the car would have fallen off the right side.

Anyways, my theory goes something like this. The day started a bit cool and slowly warmed up. James also got Chuck as an instructor after session 2 and speeds were slowly building up. I do have James's word and an eye witness of him bleeding off tire pressures before that session. 35psi sounds like the right number. After a few laps the front tires could possibly be getting a bit over worked, thus getting pressures a little higher than normal. We have from Chuck's account the entry was early and power was applied early. James had also mentioned to me that they were not using the most inner portion of the corner. So the difference in track surfaces and possibly the entery speed without the added camber could have initally caused the rear to break loose. This is where things get interesting. I think on counter steering to correct the rear the fronts didn't have the grip while the rears turned in phase. The weight distribution would have been on the rears at this point due to acceleration. This difference in front and rear grip allowed the rear tires to further pull the rear out and point the nose towards the inside of the track despite the right steering input from the driver's wheel. This could also explain the push effect James felt towards the left side of the track.

It's a bit far fetched, but I don't really know any other causes with my limited driving experiance to have caused this. Initally Chuck was baffeled as well as sitting on the passenger side he too did not feel any tires go off. Other theories is that something in the supension/4WS broke or came loose. Maybe a deflating tire? How knows...It may remain a mystery.

Like I told you on the phone, your greasy front tire + 4WS theory is crazy, yet it is the most logical theory I've heard to date. I may never get to know the actual cause of the off. Due to the car's condition after extreme rallying in the hills, component failure analysis is impossible. If the car had been tossed into the fields on the right, maybe we'd learn something from inspecting the car. All I am going to learn from inspecting the car now is "How much is this crap gonna cost to fix?"

It just doesn't make sense that neither Chuck nor I felt we were anywhere near the track edge, AND neither of us felt tires go off... yet some guy who was nowhere near us says we put 2 off. Dan was the next car down from us (half a straight behind) and that guy was not in Dan's car. Dan's instructor spotted me in the dirt when they went by on the way to 8. To me that means nobody on track saw the incident except corner workers. I think that guy who told us "2 off" saw the tire marks and took his best guess, but he didn't actually witness my car putting 2 off.

Chuck is a pro, he knows when you're too far over. I am not a pro but I have a good grasp of my car's dimensions and know when I'm too far over. We were 2/3 to the right track edge, I am positive of that. In the curved segment between 7 and 8 there are two lines on the track surface at 1/3 and 2/3 track width, and those lines follow the curve of the track. The centerline of the car was on the 2/3 line on the track, as we hadn't gone over the hill yet. Once over the hill, I straighten steering to aim the car toward the right track edge then brake for 8. Knowing how I like to enter the braking point for 8, I do not go anywhere near the track edge until I am over that hill.