Seeking advice on exhaust system!

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

Tried searching but nothing pin pointed my question, so here goes.

Mods: Full 3" catback exhaust. Megan 2.5 to 3" downpipe.

I see the bung in my exhaust piping, but I have read that the downpipe doesn't have a bung on it.

How do I avoid CEL? Is it even possible with cat delete? I am interested in getting a wide band o2 sensor since I have a MBC, is this a good time to have it installed? Where do I get a bung installed. My shop I go to for work or an exhaust shop? Should I just tie off the front o2 sensor and deal with a CEL? Could I just put a bung in the DP and have the front o2 sensor installed and dodge the CEL?

Not sure how I should go about installing the exhuast, I just know that I want to do it all in one fatal swoop and not worry about it anymore.

Also I don't plan on going crazy with the car. More interested in restoring it and making 250-300 hp, and plan on keeping it around 12 psi, do I even need a wideband?

What route should I take? Any help is appreciated <3

 

[PrimerPLus]

So here are some options.

First if you do not want a CEL you will need your rear o2 installed. This means you will need a bung welded on so you can attach it. DONE no cells for not having your o2 sensor wired in.

Option 2 - Skip the rear o2 and weld a bung for the wideband sensor. You will get a CEL For not having your rear o2 wired in. The rear o2 is for emissions anyways.

Option 3 - Have 2 bungs welded on 1 for your rear o2 and the other for your wideband. Although I don't know if anyone does this.

You will want your wideband welded on your downpipe or just after the flex.
I have mine in the stock rear o2 bung.

Now if you have ECMLINK you can get rid of your rear o2 CEL and it will not show up on your dashboard.

 

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

So if my exhaust already has the bung In it them I'm set?

What do I do with the front o2 sensor? Just tie it off and make sure it's somewhere safe in the engine bay? Not having the front o2 sensor installed wont throw a CEL?

 

[95talongirl]

I slo have the rear 02 "running" my WB02 via DSMLink (thus no CEL). The front 02 is still there and plugged in, as well.

 

[Cdc1221]

Or you can install your wideband in the front o2 location and do away with the old one. Just simulate narrowband with it. Not sure what others do this but the lc1 will. Check out snowboarders how to on installing the lc1 wb in the front o2 location. Easy peezy and no welding. Took about 30 min to wire in

 

[93TSiguy]

honestly dude its not nearly as complicated as your making it sound... don't get ahead of yourself. For starters, stock boost if i remember is 14psi on 2g's and 11psi on 1g's (correct me someone if i'm off by 1-2psi). Additionally, no, you do not need a wideband if your not "tuning" higher. Recommended... yes, always. And with that said, bro welding a bung costs maybe $40 at any exhaust shop that's not gonna cry and whine about emissions. Any welder can do it, bungs are standard one size fits all, at least for your application. Save yourself the headache like you said and weld the bung get a wideband and put it in real easy install. Narrowbands are entirely a waste of money.

 

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

If I put a wideband in would the car need a tune immediately or will it be set up and run find after install?

 

[Cdc1221]

No you will not need a tune . The wideband doesnt change fuel trims or timing. It just allows you to see a wide band of afrs in open loop, and log your trims. Running it in the front o2 location in narrow band sim allows a faster and more accurate afr reading

 

[crash89]

It sounds like you need to do some more reading my friend... A wideband wont mess anything up tune wise, its just a sensor and a gauge..

Now, you dont see a bung in the downpipe because thats not where the factory o2 bung is.. Its AFTER the cat.. So, with that said, look at your cat back exhaust. Bet theres a bung.. If you run the WB in place of the rear o2 you'll throw a code unless you have DSMlink and can disable that sensor. Same goes for the front o2 sensor..

Now, with what 93tsiguy said. Typically you'd want the wideband sensor about 18" from the turbo or before the cat converter. With a cat delete DP its ok to use the rear sensor location.

PRIMERPLUS' third "option" would probably be your best one.. you said you're taking the car to a shop to have the exhaust installed. Just have that shop weld you in a separate bung and run both since you dont have a means of tuning or logging.

 

[dsmcurse]

This kid is like 17 years old and didn't even know what a wideband was until like a day or two ago, so for him to wire it in to simulate narrow band signal is a bit of a stretch for this guy...


For starters, what brand of wideband kit did you buy? There's actually some widebands out there that won't be compatible with DSMLINK. Not that you even have link at this point, but it would be nice to purchase a kit that is indeed gonna work later down the road.


So you have after market exhaust and it has no spots for additional oxygen sensors. No biggie. The after cat "down stream" O2 sensor is currently NOT screwed into your exhaust correct? Sometimes that throws a check engine light and some times it don't. Weired I know. Is your down stream O2sensor screwed in or no?


If not, you can go to any repair shop and get a bung welded in to screw in that sensor. As far as people telling you that you can unscrew a stock sensor and put the aftermarket wideband sensor in its place, ignore that. Its ovbiously beyond your capabilitys a this point and your gonna need DSMLINK and a lot of laptop "know-how" to set it up to simulate.

Here's what you do, keep the front stock one un-messed with and plugged in as normal, get a bung welded into your exhaust (goes about under the driver seat in that area) so now you have the down stream O2sensor hooked up and functioning like stock as well, buy a wideband kit that you know will later work with link later down the road, go to any ol muffler/ repair shop and have another bung welded into your down pipe. Hook up wideband the simple way and just use it as a gauge at this point.


To hook it up and data log and simulate narrow band and all this jive is much over your skill level at this point. Just take the simple route and get it installed as simple as possible and use it as a guage and become smarter with time.

The optimum placement for your after market O2 sensor will be in the downpipe any where in between the factory cast O2sensor housing and the flex pipe that's right after the oil pan. Any where in between those two spots will work best for you.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

If there's a bung on the downpipe that's for wide band. The front (up stream) o2 sensor is on the o2 housing right off the turbo (the 90*ish part of your exhaust) and the back (down stream) o2 is behind the cat to see if the cats working or not. So if it's on the down pipe you can get a bolt to block it or get a wideband (and keep your other two o2 sensors) to help you tune down the road.

 

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

My entire exhaust has 1 bung in it. The downpipe comes with no bung, so I only have 1 total...

I am understanding that the rear o2 sensor will go in this bung. To prevent from throwing a CEL, do I need to have a bung installed in the DP for the front o2 sensor?

As for the wideband, I will get that later, seeing as how I cant find one for under 150$ and dont have those kind of funds atm.

This kid is like 17 years old and didn't even know what a wideband was until like a day or two ago, so for him to wire it in to simulate narrow band signal is a bit of a stretch for this guy...


For starters, what brand of wideband kit did you buy? There's actually some widebands out there that won't be compatible with DSMLINK. Not that you even have link at this point, but it would be nice to purchase a kit that is indeed gonna work later down the road.


So you have after market exhaust and it has no spots for additional oxygen sensors. No biggie. The after cat "down stream" O2 sensor is currently NOT screwed into your exhaust correct? Sometimes that throws a check engine light and some times it don't. Weired I know. Is your down stream O2sensor screwed in or no?


If not, you can go to any repair shop and get a bung welded in to screw in that sensor. As far as people telling you that you can unscrew a stock sensor and put the aftermarket wideband sensor in its place, ignore that. Its ovbiously beyond your capabilitys a this point and your gonna need DSMLINK and a lot of laptop "know-how" to set it up to simulate.

Here's what you do, keep the front stock one un-messed with and plugged in as normal, get a bung welded into your exhaust (goes about under the driver seat in that area) so now you have the down stream O2sensor hooked up and functioning like stock as well, buy a wideband kit that you know will later work with link later down the road, go to any ol muffler/ repair shop and have another bung welded into your down pipe. Hook up wideband the simple way and just use it as a gauge at this point.


To hook it up and data log and simulate narrow band and all this jive is much over your skill level at this point. Just take the simple route and get it installed as simple as possible and use it as a guage and become smarter with time.

The optimum placement for your after market O2 sensor will be in the downpipe any where in between the factory cast O2sensor housing and the flex pipe that's right after the oil pan. Any where in between those two spots will work best for you.

And stop hating on me dude, atleast im asking questions about how to make the car run right instead of if a bodykit will bolt on to the car with my aftermarket spoiler. You said in the thread yourself that you could go around thread to thread on your high horse with your 600 hp car and bash on everyone else and their ?'s but you dont.... well from what I see, you do. I appreciate the info I REALLY do, but you dont have to bash me for no reason.

The whole reason you dislike me is because I expressed dissatisfaction with someone ricing out an AWD talon, is that so unheard of?

It sounds like you need to do some more reading my friend... A wideband wont mess anything up tune wise, its just a sensor and a gauge..

Now, you dont see a bung in the downpipe because thats not where the factory o2 bung is.. Its AFTER the cat.. So, with that said, look at your cat back exhaust. Bet theres a bung.. If you run the WB in place of the rear o2 you'll throw a code unless you have DSMlink and can disable that sensor. Same goes for the front o2 sensor..

Now, with what 93tsiguy said. Typically you'd want the wideband sensor about 18" from the turbo or before the cat converter. With a cat delete DP its ok to use the rear sensor location.

PRIMERPLUS' third "option" would probably be your best one.. you said you're taking the car to a shop to have the exhaust installed. Just have that shop weld you in a separate bung and run both since you dont have a means of tuning or logging.

Im trying man, I use the search on here and google and cant seem the find the answer for my specific questions. Thanks for the help though bro. I do see the bung in my exhaust, but theres only 1. If im going with no wideband for now, do I even need a 2nd one?

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

You'll be alright. The front o2 is before the downpipe so just put your rear o2 sensor in the catback part if the exhaust a you will be good to go.

Dont get offended by anyone on this site. Some of the people forgot that they once started modifying cars and had no clue what to do.

 

[WES_393]

Should I just tie off the front o2 sensor and deal with a CEL? Could I just put a bung in the DP and have the front o2 sensor installed and dodge the CEL?

Seriously, pop the hood on your car and look at the O2 housing. See the O2 sensor? Thats the front O2, and thats where it's supposed to go. A bolt on exhaust won't eliminate the O2 housing, which has a bung for the front O2, which you absolutely need.

I have no clue why this is so difficult.

 

[93TSiguy]

Dude your not gonna hurt your car right now by not having the wideband installed (and yes additional bung if your not getting a test/race pipe to delete the cat like i did) judging your commentary saying you want to keep it mostly stock and on low boost on stock turbo. Just save up your coin and buy the aem uego wideband when you get around $175... trust me you'll be happy you put it on for down the road. Peace of mind when you do mod will be the greatest gift you can ever give yourself.

You learned a thing or two on here from the other comments even the ones that ticked you off, now just take your time and set a plan ahead for a date to get the wideband & have it installed.

 

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

Thanks everyone for the help, I'm now 100% more comfortable puttin the exhaust/DP on

Anyone have a rough estimate on the horsepower I'm going to be gaining?

Also should I worry about any other bolt ons? My older brothers GSX had an aftermarket header, shoul I get into all that if I just want to make like 250-300 hp?

 

[undefined0000]

Port your manifold and you should be good. Or get the fancy FP manifold.

 

[PrimerPLus]

Yep you'll be fine with the stock exhaust manifold. If it breaks/cracks in the future then think about upgrading it.

 

[WES_393]

The stock 2g manifold is more than enough for 250-300hp. The exhaust will give you close to zero horsepower gains. You'll also need more than the stock turbo for anything over 250hp.

 

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

The stock 2g manifold is more than enough for 250-300hp. The exhaust will give you close to zero horsepower gains. You'll also need more than the stock turbo for anything over 250hp.

Bullshit.

Extreme psi states the downpipe itself will add 10-16 hp itself, and I've heard the full exhaust will add 15-20.

 

[undefined0000]

Large turbo + small exhaust = loss of power
small turbo + big exhaust = better spool, thats about it.

Bullshit.

Extreme psi states the downpipe itself will add 10-16 hp itself, and I've heard the full exhaust will add 15-20.

Please don't call bullshit on the guys that do this based on something you read on a vendor's website. Not to say the vendor is lying, its just the people here know how the product works in application and in many cases how it will work on a give person's setup.

 

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

If a vendor states the car will have 10-16 more horsepower, and I strap it to a dyno and do a before and after and gain no horse power, I could sue for false advertising. I'm not sayin he doesn't know what he's talking about but saying close to no horse power gains makes me put his word against Epsi which is a company worth a lot of money, and wouldn't put their ass on the line if they had not tested the mod to see what the increase in power is.

Is it basically like my car is capable of 200 whp, but it's only capable of harnessing 175 of it, but now with this exhaust I'm capable of the full 200?

 

[undefined0000]

Get something bigger than the t25 and you'll see the gain as a combo of the turbo and exhaust.

Larger turbines need more air flowing past to move them to generate appropriate power.

Stock exhaust is fine for the t25.

Say you get an HX35 on stock exhaust, its gonna suck.

Get larger exhaust and boom. HP gain.

 

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

I'm probably just going to slap a 14b on her and call it a day.

 

[undefined0000]

get a 16g while you're at it. VERY common on the street builds. 14b will do, but 16g is pretty similar and puts out more power. I hope I'm making sense with the turbo -> exhaust situation, I'm sure someone else can explain it better, just saw no one was replying .