Safe going back to 390's with Evo 3 16G?

[EagleTalonTim]

Well I have tried everything I could find in the forums to lean my Talon out a bit, but no luck what so ever. Boost leak test was perfect, no leaks, held the same pressure for over 2 minutes.

I am running 450 injectors and 15 PSI with an Evo 3 16g with a rewired fuel pump. Since my car is an auto, it came stock with 390's which I held on to in case something went wrong. I have heard that auto's have a different FPR than M/T Talons but I never changed it since I could not find a turbo Talon in any junk yards around my area.

I am running an ECU from a M/T Talon to compensate for the 450's. Since I drive 40 miles one way to work, I really need to get my gas mileage up a bit. Currently, I get 17 miles to the gallon, 19 if I am lucky. My drive to work is mostly interstate driving and I don't drive like a bat out of hell.

The biggest problem I have is even while I am slightly accelerating from a stop, my car is puffing out black smoke and my friends say it smells really rich. I was thinking of going all out and hacking my MAF, but since I only have one for a turbo Talon, I prefer not to.

What I am wondering about is would it be ok to still run the M/T ECU and the 390's with the 16g? I know I would probably have to turn the boost down, but that is ok with me.

 

[jjgrizz73]

You probably can if you turn the boost down to under stock levels, but why not tune it get it running correctly. you will save gas and have more power.

 

[khartley]

Get a logger, then you can put those 390's in and log your IDC's, they need to stay under 90%.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

Get a logger, then you can put those 390's in and log your IDC's, they need to stay under 90%.

My duty cycle with the 450's goes up to 93% on WOT @ 6000 RPM's. Since tomorrow looks like it will be fairly decent outside, I will probably go through everything again to see if I can find anything wrong. I need advice on what to look for. If everything checks out still, I will put the 390's back in.

 

[Ceddy]

The 1Gs have:
M/T 450cc @ 37 psi fuel pressure
A/T 390cc @ 43 psi fuel pressure

450s @ 43psi will give about 15% more fuel and make you rich.

I'm not sure about the ECU if you are swapping 390s back in, if you still have the A/T ECU might help putting that back in.

Do you any way to check fuel pressure or A/F ratio?

I would try picking up a 1G M/T FPR. They are real cheap used.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

There aren't any parts cars around my area, well at least a 50 mile radius. The only thing I have is a logger and it does not show fuel pressure or A/F ratio. I was working on building my own A/F gauge, but never got around to it. Maybe I will build it tomorrow.

I don't have the original ECU that came with the car since the guy who I bought it from had put a N/T auto ECU in it. The car sat for 2 years in a field and I bought it from him for $300 not running. I dropped a JDM motor in it and used the M/T ECU that I bought from a member on here. An ECU came with the motor, but I did not have time to swap wiring harnesses. I still have that ECU and harness but the ECU will not plug into my original harness

The engine has a cyclone intake on it which I have connected to my programmable TCU and it is set to activate at 3800 RPM's. When it kicks in, I can feel a HUGE difference at the top end power and their is no black smoke at WOT above 4000 RPMs. If the cyclone is not activated, it smokes through the entire RPM range. Sometimes I get extreme knock counts too just with normal driving but everything looks fine on the logger.

 

[tkelly27]

Smoke is a bad way to tell if you are rich or lean. You shouldn't be doing any of this without an a/f gauge, a narrowband is almost better than nothing in this case. You'll be a lot better off if you get a manual trans fuel pressure regulator.

Post MAF/pre turbo leaks will lean it out. It's lame, but I ran around with a 1" hole in my intake pipe and a NT ECU for about a week while my EPROM ECU was getting socketed. Where there is a will, there is a way : D

 

[EagleTalonTim]

well. I just ran another boost leak test and found that i have a bad seal on the TB shaft. It only leaks when at half throttle for some reason. I have a spare TB and I will be replacing the shaft, but I need to know if using a normal oring in place of the stock seal would mess up anything?

 

[toofast82]

well. I just ran another boost leak test and found that i have a bad seal on the TB shaft. It only leaks when at half throttle for some reason. I have a spare TB and I will be replacing the shaft, but I need to know if using a normal oring in place of the stock seal would mess up anything?

I used hardware store orings that were in the vfaq with no problems. It sounds like your a/t fpr may be the culprit for running rich. The stock auto ecu codes the 390cc injectors as about 430cc because of the higher fuel pressure than m/t. If you swap the 390s back in it may run a little leaner as well as some deadtime variance, but you should be able to tune it out. If you are still running the stock fuel maps then your car is probably running very rich. But yeah, if you swap the m/t fpr then it should match up perfectly. Shop the classified from guys parting out cars,etc. Or you can pick up an adjustable if the funds provide.

 

[tunethis]

well. I just ran another boost leak test and found that i have a bad seal on the TB shaft. It only leaks when at half throttle for some reason. I have a spare TB and I will be replacing the shaft, but I need to know if using a normal oring in place of the stock seal would mess up anything?

From what I've read, some have had success with o-rings. I tried putting o-rings in my old eclipse's throttle body but they didn't seal correctly. That was with a 1990 TB though. It was better but still leaked a little. If I had to do them again, I'd go with actual shaft seals.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

ok. Since I am broke at the moment and need to try my best to get everything as inexpensive as possible, I am heading to the parts store to pick up some of the o-rings listed in the VFAQ's. I will update once I get it completed.

ok, the orings fixed that leak but now another has appeared and I cannot find it anywhere. If I pop the oil cap, I can hear it inside even with the PCV out of the valve cover. The PCV leaks so I am in the process of finding my new one. Any ideas on the leak inside the valve cover area?

 

[crimsondragon]

The VC side vent that goes into your intake tract sees vacuum. I don't know if you did something with that or not. You can play with the MAF to make it run a little leaner if you want.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I just read some other posts about air leaking in the VC while doing a boost leak test and found that it could be a few internal things. Since I have let the car sit so long everything has cooled down and may not seal 100%. I am going to drive around for a bit till it is normal running temp and I will try the test again. If it is something internal, i can forget about it for now. That would cost way too much. I got the o-rings for free

got done driving and doing another test. still leaks a little. I am testing it at the elbow of the TB. It goes from 12 psi to 2 psi in 65 seconds. Better than what it used to be. I logged my last run so maybe I can get some insight on anything else that may need to be fixed....will post it in a few. I am fixing to order an AFPR in a few minutes. Any place I can get a good one for a decent price. I am limited to $90 to fix my car this weekend.

ok, here is a log with the 450's. I am guessing I need to turn the boost down a bit. I need a log expert to help me figure this stuff out

RoadSurge.com - CSV Conversion for ID : 1

 

[spyderturbo007]

There is something funny going on here. There are places that your TPS holds steady at 10.98%%, but the RPM's are showing 2k? Where you cruising at the time and just had your foot perfectly still on the gas, or is your idle jacked?

I'm also seeing all of your FT's are 100%+ which is why you are running rich at idle and cruise. This is typically caused by a boost leak, or a failing front O2 sensor. When was the last time your replaced the O2? Is see a bunch of data points at the beginning of the log where the O2 is <0.1v.

Can you explain what you were doing during that log? Such as idle, followed by 3rd gear pull, followed by deceleration, etc. It looks like when you went WOT, you didn't have the gas all the way to the floor the whole time? Is see your TPS going from 96% to 99% in the same pull.

 

[toofast82]

ok, here is a log with the 450's. I am guessing I need to turn the boost down a bit. I need a log expert to help me figure this stuff out

RoadSurge.com - CSV Conversion for ID : 1

Im assuming by the 1603hz that you are running at least 15-16psi and maybe more. The stock timing curve is pretty aggressive. If the line next to injp is injduty than you need to crank the boost down some to a safer area under 90%. I would recommend turning your timing down as well.
Maybe start from scratch and begin at 10psi and increase until you begin to see knock while monitoring your injduty for a safe zone. Then at that point either decrease boost or timing and relog and repeat if necessary.Im not sure what you are using to tune so you may have limited capabilites. It a compensation game between fuel/timing/boost

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I finally got my AFPR installed and it seems to be running much better so far. The log was from a rolling stop and then WOT through third gear. I will be re tuning everything next weekend to get the logs looking a little better. For now I am staying out of WOT till I figure what is up with the injector duty cycle. I have messed with my TPS to try and get it at 100% but when I do get it there, my CEL comes on. It has been about 6 months since I changed my O2 sensor so I am sure it is due for one, just don't have the money at the moment.