Running rich under boost

[mrslow]

I recently purchased a 1G Eclipse and haven't really had any issues except for the following : It's tuned on ECMLink and used to sit around 13 - 14:1 under WOT and full boost. Starting recently it will now go under 10:1 and feel like it's not pulling as hard under the same conditions. If I slowly creep up in boost I can watch the AFRs go 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 and then below as it builds. I've tried connecting to the ECMLink but can't access it using the cable on my laptop so I can't check if there's anything going on with the ECU itself.

On a side note, the clutch master was leaking in the cabin, but has since been replaced and it looks like there are some wires running right under where it leaked. I'm concerned it could be an issue with electrical or possibly something shorted when it was leaking.

 

[Purex2c]

I would try recalibrating the wideband's o2 sensor, after confirming it's not your wiring situation.

 

[97gsxIA]

I doubt it has anything to do with wiring running under your master cylinder assembly.

Recalibrate your WB first since its easy to do. And of course do a BLT.

Secondly, what do you mean you cant connect ECMlink? What error is the program pulling when you try to connect?

Also, when you say "It used to be 13-14:1 in WOT" ... does that mean you were actually running those AFR's at WOT?

I wouldn't run that lean unless I knew I was about to melt a piston anyway.

A typical tune at WOT is somewhere between 11.something:1 and 12.something:1 depending on user's preference.

 

[mrslow]

I'll recalibrate the WB as soon as I get home. As for the ECMLink it gives me an error message similar to no connection could be established. I know the USB logger cable still works, I'm just not sure if I'm following the correct steps to connect to it. Ignition in the on position, connect the cable and then try to connect.

I may be a bit off, but it definitely remember it not running as rich under WOT, right now it goes under what the AEM gauge can read.

 

[edged1g]

It's tuned on ECMLink and used to sit around 13 - 14:1 under WOT and full boost.

You are targeting a 14:1 AFR under boost? Who tuned that for you? What fuel are you running? That sounds like a really fast way to destroy a motor.

If I slowly creep up in boost I can watch the AFRs go 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 and then below as it builds.

Sounds like a potential boost leak. As the pressure increases, more air is escaping that the ECU isn't aware and keeps adding more fuel as airflow increases, making AFR richer and richer.

I've tried connecting to the ECMLink but can't access it using the cable on my laptop so I can't check if there's anything going on with the ECU itself.

Need to get this fixed ASAP so you can post a log.

 

[mrslow]

You are targeting a 14:1 AFR under boost? Who tuned that for you? What fuel are you running? That sounds like a really fast way to destroy a motor.

If I remember correctly I was told "Sam" at Road Race tuned it, owner swore up and down it should be 14:1 AFR under WOT and boost.

Sounds like a potential boost leak. As the pressure increases, more air is escaping that the ECU isn't aware and keeps adding more fuel as airflow increases, making AFR richer and richer.

I hadn't considered that, I'm going to try and do a leak test now that I'm home.

Need to get this fixed ASAP so you can post a log.

Most definitely. I'm going to try a different laptop after I do the BLT and see if that may be the issue.

 

[WES_393]

If I remember correctly I was told "Sam" at Road Race tuned it, owner swore up and down it should be 14:1 AFR under WOT and boost.

That's definitely not right. That's way too lean for pump gas (which I'm assuming your using). Even if you were running E85 that's still way too lean. So he was either mistaken or tuned the car very poorly.

Get that DSMlink working and post up a log. That'll give us much more info as to what's going on.

 

[gsexxx]

And you are sure that the other side of the cord (not the USB side) is connected to the car and not partially on? Also, try plugging in the USB side into another USB port if you have one. As stated above, make sure you calibrate your wb. And I don't know what that guy was thinking but 14.1 is way to lean at wot, even on e85. It sounds to me like you have a huge boost leak as well.

 

[mrslow]

Ok so I recalibrated the WB and it's still reading about the same. 14 - 16 at idle and goes under 11 in WOT/full boost. I don't have a boost leak tester at the moment so I just a thorough check and wasn't able to find any loose IC piping or anything. As for the ECMLink, is the diagnostic port powered through the same fuse as the cigarette lighter? If so I'll give that a check, maybe it's just a blown fuse.

 

[97gsxIA]

Make your own boost leak tester. It's not something you can just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well" to. There's more than IC piping that leaks such as throttle body shaft seals, BISS screw, IM flange, injector seals, vac lines, EGR valve or block off plate, and even valve stem seals and any manual boost controller.

I couldn't possibly stress doing a BLT anymore.

14-16 is acceptable at idle as target AFR is 14.7. when it goes to 16 the ECU sees it, adds fuel and it goes down to 14 then back up and repeats.
Your ECU is adjusting fuel based on airflow readings and a vac/boost leak can make the range it fluctuates larger. a bad ISC can also affect the range.

under 11 at WOT could very well be the tune. If it was tuned with a target AFR of 10.5 under load in the respective maxOct table then it will obviously show that in your WOT pulls. Sounds like the guy who "tuned" it for you didnt know what he was doing in the first place anyway and you can't tell what ecmlink is doing because you can't get it started.

Here is a link to OBDII pinout page:

OBDII - On-Board Diagnostic's System - Does My Car Have OBD-II? The Connector and Communications.

#16 is the power, follow the respective wire to resolve any power issues. check any and all fuses.

 

[mrslow]

Ok so the issue with the ECMLink ended up being the cable itself, if I squeeze it while connecting it'll work no problem. I'll try and find a way to ghetto rig the cable until I replace it I'll get a log from the ECMLink detailing exactly what's going on. It seems like the CEL comes on with knock and if I rev above 3 - 3.5k in 1st the CEL does come on, but I'm replacing the sensor when I have free time as it may just be old.

 

[mrslow]

Ok so I was able to get the ECMLink to connect. I wasn't able to drive and log at the same time since I need to put pressure on the box on the cable until I receive my replacement, but here's a log with me revving while not in gear, turning on anti-lag and revving to full boost and then revving again while not in gear.

I'll be able to have a passenger ride along tomorrow and get a log while driving so there's more information to look at.

 

[97gsxIA]

Ok, I took a look at your log.


your OpenloopMAX tables through the beginning of your WOT pull are targetting cells with 12.9-14.1 AFRS

@ 34 seconds in where you are WOT getting nasty knock then you shift and the knock goes away its because when you shifted the AFRs being targeted were in the 10.2-10.5 range when before they were targetting the above mentioned AFRS

Track your datalog and youll see what im saying. you dont need the laptop hooked to the OBDII port to review your logs.

All I can really say is start over before something bad happens.

@5,000rpm youre getting 8.1* Knockretard

Set everything back to stock and start over.

You timing tables are at some points 10* less than stock values and in other spots 8-10* above stock values... which can be ok in a few cases, but not in your case on the fuel your running.

Set everything back to stock. lower your boost, tune your idle and cruise then do a WOT pull on stock wastegate pressure and see how it runs. Then go from there.

AND PLEASE makesure all boost leaks are resolved BEFORE tuning. otherwise everything will be wrong. just because theres no loose IC piping or anything of the sort doesnt mean you dont have major boost leaks.

 

[jed344]

Just looked your log over and under your WOT pull i am amazed at how terrible it is... -10 timing 8.1 knock your boost est says 13.8? i also say start over with the tune. I am surprised your car even pulled hard let alone didn't blow up.

 

[mrslow]

The log I posted was an idle rev, and then an anti-lag rev. I have a driving log now, but I'm fairly certain there is indeed a boost leak in the BOV past 13psi. I'll get the logs posted in a few minutes.

Here are the driving logs and the actual tune for the car. I'm just learning ECMLink still, so I don't know what to look for in the logs or tune.

 

[97gsxIA]

I thought there was something off about that first log.
First off, you shouldnt knock in free rev.
You have some sick nasty phantom knock if thats the case.

Replace your knock sensor or start looking for loose bolts on your A/C bracket or something. (Could be bad balance shaft bearing.. who knows, just figure it out so it doesnt put you off on your tune.)

Next, you need to log your wideband. I can see the AFRS your ECU is targeting but not what your actual AFRest is.

Your tune could most likely use more tweaking as it does target some very rich AFRs, but its not as bad as previously thought.

Log your Wideband, fix your boost leak, do another pull and I'll tell you where to start tweaking.

Also, theres a couple things going on that will need a closer look. Your tuner used the timing/fuel sliders AND the DA tables. Which is confusing to say the least. We'll look closer after your WB is logged and leaks fixed.

 

[mrslow]

Ok definitely, I have a replacement knock sensor I plan on doing this weekend and I'll get the wideband logging taken care of this weekend most likely as well.

 

[Tony818]

Ok definitely, I have a replacement knock sensor I plan on doing this weekend and I'll get the wideband logging taken care of this weekend most likely as well.

Sorry to bring this back. But did you ever resolve this?